Sexism, Misogyny and the rise and rise and rise of the internet asshole....

originally posted by: King_John

originally posted by: WhiteAlice

You're seriously misguided there if you think that it is "less acute" than what Nefermore is trying to paint it. One doesn't have to be the center of some controversy to receive rape threats and more. One just has to simply exist and be a female. The video below is actually not an uncommon experience for women. I've had this happen so many times in my 15 years of online gaming that I've lost count. This IS reality.

**LANGUAGE WARNING**

And just as many heinous things are said to male gamers, except that it's so common place that male gamers don't complain about it.

Most of the time, when I game, it's pretty quiet in the chat and on the comms outside of maybe somebody spamming a mic with music or stupid sounds or the occasional player that uses their mic to call out enemy positions. However, you're right, I have seen this kind of stuff get said to a male gamer a couple times in the last year.

Both times it was a 20 something guy saying that kind of thing to what was very obviously (voice hadn't changed yet) boy that was probably 11-13 years old.

You wanna talk about that because what makes me angrier than hell is when nasty little pieces of work say this kind of thing to children. You know how they excuse it, too, before the server kicks the guy who said it? Well "the kid shouldn't have been playing the game".

All sorts of lame excuses come up for saying this kind of stuff to other people even when it's illegal to do so (online pedophilia is a no-go). The only other times I've seen that kind of chatter, it's been mutual--generally chatting between friends/clanmates. Not quite the same thing as some random guy attacking another random player over their gender or because they're vulnerable due to their age.

a reply to: WhiteAlice
If you are talking about CoD, then they are right. He really shouldn't be playing that game, it is rated M.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Well, I don't think that women necessarily do quite the same thing. I've never seen a woman sexually harassing a guy on a server. EVER. I think that would be kind of weird and well, it'd definitely get really weird. I do absolutely agree that there are misandrists on the net and that is something I do not shirk from remarking about either. Long thread so you probably missed that. If you look at my second post on this thread, I dish what I can do out equally to both male and female (and I do it quite well) when I see someone acting like an online bully. I am absolutely against a female player in a game or on any venue lashing out and saying nasty things (though generally not sexual in nature) to another human being. The difference between what I do between the two sexes is that I tell the female outright that what they are doing is just making it worse.

I'm not the silent type at all and, in fact, nothing guarantees an online bully to drop their target and turn on me than by my stepping up to defend. It's a win-win in that sort of situation because a. the original victim actually feels like somebody cares enough to speak up and b. I know that the jerk doing the verbal abuse is just wanting to watch the world burn. Totally slides off like water in that case.

I think what nefermore is talking about here is the really over the top stuff and in fact, what he most frequently references is rape threats. So if we're talking good ole fashion smack talk, then I'd say being called "gay" (as if that's an insult), called a hacker (which is kind of a compliment), a nerd who has no life (I'm a nerd and proud of it), and similar things are identical for both sexes.

Being told that you must be fat and ugly, to get back into the kitchen, that you're an abomination for playing a video game like this because women shouldn't do that, being told to shut your pie hole because women shouldn't speak unless spoken to, being hit with juvenile, incessant streaming chat filled with "keyboard art" alternating with the word "boobies", calls for votekicking or banning "the girl" as if gender is a reason to do such a thing from a server (especially when they've been quiet and are at the top of the scoreboard so clearly they're playing), along with the occasional rape threats, threats of choking by certain portions of male anatomy and well, so much, much more. Those guys are misogynists.

Not all men are misogynists. I know a lot of really great guys and I actually, being a kind of tom boy, have always gotten along better with men than I do women. I can play with 100 different players in a day who either don't care that I'm female or are surprised by the fact and just let it go. Out of that 100, and I asked my fiance to confirm this, about 1-2 are definitely beyond a doubt misogynists. Maybe 10-15 are borderline.

If I were to say where the problem really lies, I'd say it is that we routinely fail to do anything at all about online bullying. How hard is it to tell someone else on the net to leave somebody alone? The number of times that's happened for me is few and I cherish every single instance of that because it's so encouraging and refreshing. It's not like these jerks are going to punch you in the nose or might pull a knife on you. As people keep saying, it's online.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: WhiteAlice
If you are talking about CoD, then they are right. He really shouldn't be playing that game, it is rated M.

Let me get this right so correct me if I'm wrong: Are you saying that, if the kid was playing CoD, that warrants him being told by some guy that he's going to rape him til he bleeds from his bottom? I totally agree, btw, that younger kids shouldn't be playing M games. Heck, I don't let my daughter play online games at all (only 3ds with her friends). I know very well how many creepers there are in games.

However, as the old saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right. The kid playing the M game isn't necessarily breaking any laws. The adult making sexual assault threats to a minor is.

a reply to: WhiteAlice
If I wanted to say all that I would have. I was just saying I agree, that an 11-13 year old should not be playing rated M games. Or watching rated R and X movies either. I am not their parents, so nothing I can do about it though lol.

I was in line for the GTA 4 prerelease and saw a bunch of parent their with kids that looked 10-14, at midnight, on a schoolnight to buy them the game. Pretty sad, I even tried to explain to the closest ones the content of the game, and they still bought it.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

I have my methods. I would tell you them but then I'd have to make you disappear. Just kidding but it's kind of like the IP thing but instead, I start cold reading them using all available information. I do that with the "leaders" of the pack when I've got 4-5 guys basically stacking against me to target me both in game and verbally. I'm very good at it and they usually bail off right quick afterwards.

I actually don't want to click those links to be honest. I can guess what they are. Not a fan of that kind of stuff at all for the same reasons why I'm not a fan of the super chip on their shoulders female gamers. Both ends of the spectrum cause problems for women who just want to play a damn game. That's all I want. I'd love to have the day come where my being female isn't something remarkable or an instant catalyst for abuse should I make an enemy position call on the mic. I just want to play the damn games.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: WhiteAlice
If I wanted to say all that I would have. I was just saying I agree, that an 11-13 year old should not be playing rated M games. Or watching rated R and X movies either. I am not their parents, so nothing I can do about it though lol.

I was in line for the GTA 4 prerelease and saw a bunch of parent their with kids that looked 10-14, at midnight, on a schoolnight to buy them the game. Pretty sad, I even tried to explain to the closest ones the content of the game, and they still bought it.

Okay because the thread subject is titled, "Sexism, Misogyny and the rise and rise and rise of the internet asshole" and you weren't clear about it is why I asked for clarity. If you read what I typed, I said he used precisely what you said as an excuse for his behavior. Thread isn't about whether kids should be playing those games--it's what's said on the internet, including in those games. Though seriously, there should be a thread discussing children playing online video games, especially those rated M.

As long as we agree that the guy who said that to that little kid was scum of the earth and there was zero excuse for it, we're cool.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

Well, I don't think that women necessarily do quite the same thing. I've never seen a woman sexually harassing a guy on a server.

Because women and men act and think differently, so naturally, different forms of abuse are needed.
Making comments of a sexually harrassing nature to a male could and in a stereotypical viewpoint would backfire spectacularly.

On the subject of online bullying.
What are we do about online bullying?
Throw them in jail?
Glut the prison system further with essentially harmless morons who like to shoot off their mouths?
Doing so would open the door to all sorts of injustice.

Have you guys ever actually played a CoD game online? It is absolutely dominated by 12 year old boys claiming to have had sex with your mother... lol.

The kids in online gaming really are the worst offenders when it comes to talking trash to people. Anyone who's played a CoD game online knows this...

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: Kali74

Smack talk is a part of gaming.
Especially in competitive games.
Competitive men and women tend to smack talk.
Get used to it.

Then there are the morons that will say anything to get a rise out of you just because.

This is ridiculous. Yes, being treated like crap if you're a female gamer is the norm, because of the way men are. Not because it's the way it SHOULD be. And obviously those of us who like to game DO put up with it because we're still gaming. It doesn't mean we should like and accept the way things are.

a reply to: SensiblyReckless

I've played online everything and yes, CoD is hands-down the worst environment in the gaming universe. Before they had mute on the consoles every day in our (all-female) clan made us want to stab our own ear-drums. GTA 5 Online is giving it a run for its money though. But not QUITE as bad as CoD yet.

Oddly, the dudes who played Socom (any of them, really) tended be to cool/chill not jerks. Sure, like anywhere you'd get your random jerk but for the most part the guys who played that game were a pleasure to game with. I don't know why lol

If someone tells a fat geeky spotty virgin to f-off or whatever on the internet no one gives a #e.

If someone says it to a nice looking woman on twitter it makes headlines.

The abuse hasn't really changed, it's just the people on the receiving end now seem to matter to society that bit more.

The idea that this is a new thing and only aimed at women is quite frankly absurd.

originally posted by: Malynn
a reply to: SensiblyReckless

I've played online everything and yes, CoD is hands-down the worst environment in the gaming universe. Before they had mute on the consoles every day in our (all-female) clan made us want to stab our own ear-drums. GTA 5 Online is giving it a run for its money though. But not QUITE as bad as CoD yet.

Oddly, the dudes who played Socom (any of them, really) tended be to cool/chill not jerks. Sure, like anywhere you'd get your random jerk but for the most part the guys who played that game were a pleasure to game with. I don't know why lol

Yeah, I used to play a lot of Socom and it was a mature community for the most part.

CoD games are rated M, but in reality are actually marketed at kids as their target audience, and therein lies the problem with the community. A mature game with very little mature people playing it lol.

To weigh in, we ARE in a society where freedom of speech is a necessity as part of the course; but this is not to say that any penile-disfunction can just vomit a bunch of hate our way and feel justified in their own limited-in-life attitudes as being relevant on any level.

It is THEIR folly at not being able to get to grips with their own inability to be able to socialise outside of the interwebs! The argument may arise that those without a voice outside of their own flesh get a convenient ego within cyberspace as this may well be the future; but a whole-rounded human being they will never become! And such folk will, at least in their lifetimes I imagine, be charged by their own incompetence & by the same ineptness, be punished by it as part of course!

And so it goes... those with the stones enough to perpetuate the heinous crimes of which they speak (ie rape) will remain a burden on our society (sadly no different from the past), yet internet anonymity should never come to fruition; just as we punish bad drivers but do not ban the car! BTW; I've pretended to be a woman online also (just as I did when roleplaying; for a refreshing aside) & the disparity was absolutely appalling! Well-done for bringing this up, OP!! We'll never be able to stamp this out completely, but we can have a bloody good go!!!

a reply to: JackintheHood

Fortunately, there's a de-Population agenda currently taking place in the U.S. either by way of of concentration camps or Ebola, or GMO foods.. the U.S. gov. wants to get rid of vermin who think that irresponsibly sexualizing and impregnating women is correct and acceptable; The US GOV is about to get rid of the vermin folk that disdain women--even if they have to sacrifice the ladies to do so..

Wake up folks: Russian and Chinese Troops taking over the United States of America, combined with an Islamic takeover of the U.S. Is Misogyny important to any one at all??

It's a losing battle that's really not worth fighting. In the end they're just a bunch of pussies, whom you can shut up by simply turning off your computer or just ignoring.

It's like racism. The best quote about racism was said by Morgan Freeman. When asked how to end it, he simply replied "Stop talking about it. I'm going to stop calling you a white man, and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man".

Just let them bang on their keyboard until they realize no one's biting anymore. Nothing can be done to convert these " assholes", at least from our end. The problem stems beyond the screen. The only way it will change here is if society changes out there. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Well... I do. Though not nessisarily for the better. When the change I foresee occurs, these issues will pale in comparison.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I haven't read through the whole thread, but I think my responses will be somewhat unique - and in line with what TrueBrit is expressing (which is why I'm responding to one of his posts).

It strikes me that this issue *should* be addressed by the community, not by government - or even unilaterally by site admins. The *peers* should be stepping in to let the offenders know that their behavior is completely unacceptable withing the community. I have no problem with a site having Ts&Cs that allow for banning offenders ... but my personal sense of freedom says that such banning ought to be triggered by outrage from other users, rather than a "Zero tolerance" policy. (Look where Zero tolerance has gotten American school kids in the last year or so...can you say "gun-shaped pop-tart?" Not in school!!!! You'll get suspended for saying the word "gun"!!!)

This (assuming I'm correct) begs the question: Why are we *not* seeing proper gentle-folk step in so that society becomes self-correcting?

I think there are a few contributing factors:
* The definition of "right" and "wrong" is much more fluid than it used to be, and - in the name of tolerance - it is no longer politically correct to say "You are wrong"
* The SOP field ("Somebody Else's Problem") - "Why should I waste my breath on this loser; it'll just raise my blood pressure, while he laughs about how awesome a troll he is."
* (speaking of which...) how do we even know the offender isn't trolling for a flame war?
* A broad-spectrum failure of society to teach *respect*
+ I'm sure some of this reflects the breakdown of the family; how can a single mother, working two jobs to keep a roof and food, afford the time to make sure her kids respect others?
+ Some of this is a reflection of our national leadership - when the highest offices of the country don't deserve respect, it gets a lot harder to respect anything. (yes, I realize that is a half-formed though...)

In the back of my head, bubbling at the top of my subconscious, there are other contributing factors...but they haven't yet burst forth as actual thoughts. So I'll leave the exercise of extending this thought to you-all, my dear, dear readers.

sure, I'll give my opinion being 48 yrs old and being online since 1994 while paying for my internet use per hour...waiting minutes for a page of printing to appear on my screen....I have played online games since Command and Conquer....I have not in all that time noticed any type of misogyny that I don't see in the real world. Go back and look at my history on ATS and you can see what I did for a living for a decade....I am very aware of these types of things and they would not miss my attention......something bad happened to you or someone you know to make you post something like this and I'm sorry about that....but if you want objectivity....this life long internet user hasn't seen anything that doesn't reflect everyday life in American society.....don't blame the internet