Der Speigel says Russia was not at fault for MH17

originally posted by: maghun
a reply to: yuppa

Can the Su-25 fly 10000m at around 800km/h - 900km/h ?

Most likely, but it's not recommended for combat for the aircraft to fly above 7000m (with weapons).

Have you heard about the difference between "absolute ceiling" and "service ceiling"?

Who should I believe? Western propaganda without any hard evidence or Russian radar images and ukrainian eyewitnesses from (deleted) BBC report?

Western governments, and their ‘news’ media, are treating their citizens, their own publics, not really as citizens, but as suckers. They are treating them as subjects, instead of as citizens. This is not authentic democracy. It is neo-feudal; it is, in fact, a sophisticated form of fascism.

The entire “Buk” ‘explanation’ of the downing of the Malaysian airliner is for suckers only; and everyone in official circles, and in the press, who peddles it, is just as fake as the ridiculous story-line that he or she is peddling. To fall for it, after being provided all of the authentic evidence, which has been linked to here, is to be a willing slave to psychopaths.

Western Media Suppression of MH17 Evidence Reveals Political Agenda

Anything from Russia is suspect as well. Remember a prominent RT reporter quit over it. The BBC report was deleted due to some revelation. Sort of liek tom brokaws slip when he created some news.
. Russia said they didnt go to crimea at one time,then after a while admitted to it outright. So how can you believe them telling the truth this time? Thats something a Plant would do.

a reply to: yuppa

Sukhoi made a statement themselves that the aircraft was nto able to hit that height for more than a few second without staling.

Link to that statement?

ZAPHOD a aircraft expert even said as much. I take his word over other posters here who have a anti west bias.

I thought we were talking air planes here, not politics. Aircraft expert? Did he show you his credentials?

Why didn't you answer the question from my first post?

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: HappyThoughts
An Ukrainian site,

uos.ua...

7,000-10,000m

In this scenario it only needed the cannon, so it wouldn't have been loaded with relatively heavy bombs.

IS that the official website? Sukhoi made a statement themselves that the aircraft was nto able to hit that height for more than a few second without staling. ZAPHOD a aircraft expert even said as much. I take his word over other posters here who have a anti west bias.

Yes, never mind the obvious question of who benefits....instead, hang your hat on what an airplane expert on a conspiracy site tells you.

Never mind the obvious cannon spray on wing and cockpit either or the evidence presented by Russia that a Su was tailing the plane. That's just the entire world spreading Anti-NATO propaganda.

So I went to "Der Spiegel"s website and I found this:

Die Untersuchung der Flugzeugtrümmer soll Aufschluss über die Ursache des Absturzes geben. Erste Ermittlungen ergaben, dass die malaysische Maschine in dem von prorussischen Separatisten beherrschten Gebiet abgeschossen wurde. Unklar ist aber, wer geschossen hat.

All it says is basically, we know for sure, it got shotdown in an area controlled by pro Russian sepparatists, but they are making it next to impossible to continue with the investigations. Even the bodies aren't yet all secured and the Netherlands are still waiting for them to be returned. So whoever wrote that clearly has an agneda and is not a very good journalist. Misquoting on purpose, ts, ts, ts...
Spiegel

a reply to: Peeple

Who misqouted what?

You are not even looking at the right article.....tsk tsk.

www.spiegel.de...

a reply to: HappyThoughts

I hope you're kidding.
The one who said "Der Spiegel says Russia was not at fault for MH17" Good morning, open your eyes...

a reply to: Peeple

Your link takes me to an article called,

Kämpfe in Ostukraine: Niederländer unterbrechen MH17-Bergung für unbestimmte Zeit

www.spiegel.de...

and the qouted info from the op does not appear in it, it does in the article I linked, so, no, I am not kidding.

a reply to: Peeple

Maybe I misinterpreted your post. So who misqouted what?

a reply to: HappyThoughts

Your quote is not from "der Spiegel" is it?
So...
Urch sometimes I wonder why I even bother with these silly Earthliings....

a reply to: Peeple
What are you, pray tell?
If you're something else, isn't it time for "disclosure?" Seems like you'd be the perfect, ummm, whatever, whomever, to do that right now, on a conspiracy forum at between 3:30am and 6:30am for most of its readership, so how 'bout it?
tetra50

a reply to: Peeple

Your quote is not from "der Spiegel" is it?

What qoute?

Urch sometimes I wonder why I even bother with these silly Earthliings....

Maybe you can try to explain what you meant with your initial post, who misqouted what and how does it relate to the threads topic?

a reply to: HappyThoughts

I am sorry, I already said everything I had to, on this topic. I really don't know how I could make it any clearer, or what you want from me. Let's just agree we don't share a frequency....

a reply to: Peeple

Well, that seems kinda childish. All I'm asking is for you to elaborate on this statement because I don't see what you mean. Is it a problem to back up your own statements?

So whoever wrote that clearly has an agneda and is not a very good journalist. Misquoting on purpose, ts, ts, ts...

So who misqouted what?

a reply to: Peeple

Well, that seems kinda childish. All I'm asking is for you to elaborate on this statement because I don't see what you mean. Is it a problem to back up your own statements?

So whoever wrote that clearly has an agneda and is not a very good journalist. Misquoting on purpose, ts, ts, ts...

So who misqouted what?

a reply to: HappyThoughts

Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"
Robert Perry misquoted "Der Spiegel"

Happy?

Its very clear that the USA and its cronies in the West such as cameron are determined to destroy the Russian European relations and instigate another cold war. This of course is to the benefit of american companies who would loose the trade to the russians so we don't need super intelligence to know why. We also know that Germany has good relations with russia and good trade relations so is keen not to have the USA interfere.

What gets me is cameron's attitude to anything he can lay at Russia's door. Perhaps its time we had a referendum as to whether we want to trade and be the USA's lap dog or whether we would prefer to keep in Europe and trade with Russia.

Personally I want to improve Russian relations. I am not unaware of the fact thatr Europe has broken its agreement not to encroach on Russia's borders and I view the Ukraine matter as a Russian and Ukraine political situation only.

I hope we make peace with russia and explore the great trade and cultural relationships that this would promote. Too much of american foreign policy has shown scant regaard for people of other nations and american protectionism is really about the bankers and rich whom think the american GI is merely an extension of their own security services protecting their private wealth and grab for resources that don't belong to them.

MH17 is purely an example of the murky subterfuge and death that some country's foreign policy seems to employ these days. I would have difficulty thinking that either side of the Ukraine forces managed to mistake a passenger liner as a war plane belonging to the other side and chose to shoot it down.

a reply to: Peeple

With what qoutes?

a reply to: Peeple

Not being rude but wouldn't you be better off with a comic or less coffee?

originally posted by: Rosinitiate

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: HappyThoughts
An Ukrainian site,

uos.ua...

7,000-10,000m

In this scenario it only needed the cannon, so it wouldn't have been loaded with relatively heavy bombs.

IS that the official website? Sukhoi made a statement themselves that the aircraft was nto able to hit that height for more than a few second without staling. ZAPHOD a aircraft expert even said as much. I take his word over other posters here who have a anti west bias.

Yes, never mind the obvious question of who benefits....instead, hang your hat on what an airplane expert on a conspiracy site tells you.

Never mind the obvious cannon spray on wing and cockpit either or the evidence presented by Russia that a Su was tailing the plane. That's just the entire world spreading Anti-NATO propaganda.

You obviously do not know what that size cannon fire holes look like. It looks more like a fragmentation warhead hit of a sam. And yes SAM CAN hit a cockpit just ask some of the pilots in vietnam. ANd id wager do not even go there on zaphods credentials.

I also take the aircrafts MANUFACTURER over the Russian governments Wiki any day.