Der Speigel says Russia was not at fault for MH17

a reply to: Plugin

So you're telling me that that panel could in reality be huge, and those holes the size of a 30mm? No way. You can get an idea for the size of the panel based on the background objects. Those holes are tiny compared to a 30mm, and no amount of trying to twist it is going to change that.

a reply to: Zaphod58

30mm ain't that big, it's 3 cm.. (1.181102362206 inches) if it just penetrates and no explosion the holes ain't that huge.
But everyone his belief. fine w me.
I believe it could be 30mm.

a reply to: Plugin

Here you got a big picture from it:
www.anderweltonline.com...

So are those entry holes or exit holes?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

According that Biedermann guy:

Entry And Exit holes from bullets in the area of the Cockpit. This is not speculation, but analysis of clear facts: the cockpit
shows clear evidence of bullet holes. You can see the entry holes and
some exit points.
Read more at investmentwatchblog.com...

About Biederman:

Biedermann is familiar with Soviet and Russian air defense technology,
he led units in the duty officer system in East Germany and taught at
the Military Academy in the field of anti-aircraft missile troops.’
Read more at investmentwatchblog.com...

a reply to: Plugin

30mm ain't that big, it's 3 cm.. if it just penetrates and no explosion the holes ain't that huge.

Really...



Looks pretty big to me unless the man in the video is a midget with small hands.

a reply to: Plugin

Wow, talk about mental gymnastics. I showed a picture of 30mm rounds that you could just about put a fist through, in an armored target, and now you're trying to say that it's not that big. Just wow. You are so locked into this that you'll disregard anything that doesn't show that it's right.

Please, I'm dying to hear how it is that a 30mm round can leave a hole you can put a hand through in an armored target, and leave tiny holes that you can't even get a finger through in non-armored targets.

Even if the round "isn't that big", as you say, there's a lot more to the impact than just the size of the round. You also have to take into account the speed the round impacts at, as well as the weight of the round. The Gsh-30-2 fires a round weighing over 3/4 pound, at a muzzle velocity of over 2800 feet per second. That's a huge impact on a very thin piece of aluminum, which means that it's going to leave a very big hole.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Lol I could say the same that you are locked in your ''huge 30mm damage''. Those ww2 planes ain't the best examples where germans used high explosion (not armor piercing ammunition).

Prove to me you can't put your finger in those holes lol.

a reply to: Plugin

The armored vehicle is a great example of the damage done by a 30mm round, that is armor piercing. How do you explain the huge difference in that damage, versus the thin, unarmored skin of a 777? And "it's not that big a round" doesn't cut it. Because if that's the case, you wouldn't have holes that big in the armored target.

a reply to: Plugin

According that Biedermann guy:

Then he should know how big a 30mm hole will be, but just for some comparison a 20mm hole...



www.airforcetimes.com...

So how big a hole do you think a 30mm shell leaves?

a reply to: Zaphod58

You ain't got a good reference, it's part of a cockpit, how big is that piece of metal from that M17?
You did all the calculations with how big that piece of that M17 and you know exactly how big those holes are.

You don't.

a reply to: Plugin

Prove to me you can't put your finger in those holes lol.

Maybe you should look at the video I posted above and tell me how a bullet that big makes a hole smaller than the bullet itself?

a reply to: Plugin

If you look at the top of the panel, that is the bottom of the rear window of the cockpit windscreen. That gives you an idea of the size of the panel, based on that windscreen size. Not an exact size, but a lot better than without it. That gives a reference point for the hole size, which also shows that they're a lot smaller than the holes that were punched in the APC using the same 30mm AP rounds that you have pointed out were used.

a reply to: Zaphod58

But somehow a 30mm shell in this case leaves tiny holes.

Test shooting from 13:00 in the video:

and possibly small arms rounds after the debris was on the ground (witnesses reported the rebel forces shooting the wreckage after it was found).

Repeating western propaganda? Roger!

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Looks pretty big to me unless the man in the video is a midget with small hands.

30mm refers to the diameter not the length of the projectile. It doesn't matter how long it is, it's still only 3 cm wide.

a reply to: Flatcoat

30mm refers to the diameter not the length of the projectile. It doesn't matter how long it is, it's still only 3 cm wide.

So your saying the 30mm bullet such as this one...



Makes this size hole...



Unless the shell broke up before it hit the plane it won't make that small of a hole.

But please feel free to show me how that happens.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

But please feel free to show me how that happens.

Watch from 13:00

a reply to: maghun

Watch from 13:00

Sure RT is telling the truth...How about something that has a shred of credibility because your videos don't.

You honestly don't know the first thing about the size hole a 30mm cannon makes do you, because if you did you wouldn't be posting such silly videos now would you?

Here I will make this even easier for you...



Now do you understand that a 30mm bullet makes one big ass hole and not the little ones you and RT think it makes?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Why I'm not surprised? If two hijacked planes can bring down three buildings, what can do a 30mm bullet?

a reply to: maghun

Why I'm not surprised? If two hijacked planes can bring down three buildings, what can do a 30mm bullet?

Well it didn't bring down MH17, that's for sure.

And what do two planes flying into a building have to do with the size hole a 30mm bullet makes...it doesn't, but thanks for trying.

a reply to: maghun

Wow, that's amazing. US 30mm AP shells make a hole in armor plating that you can put your hand through,but Russian 30mm AP shells make holes in unarmored aluminum that you can put your finger into. Proof that US weapons are better!