Fast Food in Denmark Serves Something Atypical: Living Wages

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit
a reply to: AlaskanDad



Fast food jobs are not permanent jobs, they are jobs that high school kids get so they can buy skateboards and whatever overpriced shoes they simply must have

Then we need to go back to being a producer economy instead of a service economy.
You can thank the Lobbyists for our foreign and domestic economic policies that reap the benefits from it, but do not want to have skin in the game and pay for the consequences of it as well.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

From your article:

When taking into account the cost of living differences between Denmark and the United States, Rantzau’s $21 per hour becomes approximately $14 per hour.

From OP:

On a recent afternoon, Hampus Elofsson ended his 40-hour workweek at a Burger King and prepared for a movie and beer with friends. He had paid his rent and all his bills, stashed away some savings, yet still had money for nights out.

bold emphasis is mine

I do not think many American fastfood workers earning $8 an hour can say they are able to put money in savings after their bills are paid.

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit
a reply to: AlaskanDad



Fast food jobs are not permanent jobs, they are jobs that high school kids get so they can buy skateboards and whatever overpriced shoes they simply must have

Then we need to go back to being a producer economy instead of a service economy.
You can thank the Lobbyists for our foreign and domestic economic policies that reap the benefits from it, but do not want to have skin in the game and pay for the consequences of it as well.

Yep yep.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: DupontDeux
And even though I consider myself pro business I like how McDonald's et al. had to cave in and accept keeping less of the profits for themselves.

Except it is not McDonalds that caved, it was Horesta that had to pay the wages. I am sure that McDonalds is still making their typical profit based on the higher prepared food costs at those franchises.

Well, no, McDonald's caved by joining Horesta.

Horesta is an employers' organization that covers, among others, the fast food industry, and Horesta already had a finalized agreement with the unions at the time McDonald's joined.

When an employer joins an employers' organization, he accepts the terms set by the agreement between said organization and the unions. Many employers does so because it is simply easier than negotiate an exclusive deal.

McDonald's did not walk into that blindfolded.
They caved.

And I do believe their profit over here er less than in the US. (I am far from certain though)

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
In the US of A fastfood workers struggle to make ends meet, yet in Denmark the same fastfood industry pays a fair wage, whats up with that?

I try really hard not to answer question without some sort of constructive thought, but this has been beaten and beaten and beaten, and I would just say that if you are still asking that question, you'll never quite understand.

But, here's part of what's up with that: $11 for a combo meal

Plus, from your own link:

Denmark has no minimum-wage law. But Mr. Elofsson’s $20 an hour is the lowest the fast-food industry can pay under an agreement between Denmark’s 3F union, the nation’s largest, and the Danish employers group Horesta, which includes Burger King, McDonald’s, Starbucks and other restaurant and hotel companies.

So, thank/blame (I prefer the latter) for the high cost of living in Denmark, which includes the $11 combo meals, on unions. In fact, unions lie at the heart of many problems concerning the higher-than-necessary cost of doing business, period.

I can guarantee that if it weren't for unions over there, the cost of doing business would be much lower. What good is getting paid twice as much as here in the U.S. if your food costs twice as much? Why do you people who thing raising the cost of doing business (i.e.: mandatory higher wages) will only produce higher wages? It also raises the cost of living and there is generally a net-zero effect, but we end up getting less for our dollar.

In Europe, just about everyone learns English as a second language. Therefore if they don't get good working conditions in Denmark, they emigrate. Same in other countries. So companies have to pay good salaries.

UK eliminated the power of the unions, and now 2 million have emigrated to Europe and other places:

euobserver.com...

Salaries are fairly standard across Europe and the UK. A senior engineer earns around 60K euros.

a reply to: DupontDeux

McDonald’s Denmark has revealed that profits in the Scandinavian country have risen, and that the group is now considering opening new outlets in a number of different locations.

The chain witnessed revenue rise by 10 per cent in 2013, from 465m kroner in 2012 to 511m kroner. Meanwhile profits increased by 5.1 per cent to 85.4m kroner, having been at 81.2m kroner the previous year.

McDonald’s Denmark’s own restaurants generated 341m kroner and its franchises brought in a further 170m kroner in rental fees. McDonald’s Denmark owns 18 of the 88 outlets in the Scandinavian country. Combined, the 88 restaurants recorded sales of a little over 1.9bn kroner – a 10 per cent rise on 2012. Profits were up by five per cent. Source

They seem to be doing quite well as they obviously, like all businesses, pass the cost of doing business on to the end user.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
Here in good ol' 'Merica, that's called extortion.

Well you can stay in "good ol' 'Merica" then cant you? Not everyone wants the American way of life shoved down there throats!

Calm down--who shoved anything down anyone's throat? And besides, if you're happy with those tactics, good for you. I, on the other hand, don't like union bullying and extortion based on fear of unpeaceful union members. That's not happiness and peace, that's living with a constant fear--no matter how subtle--that one group of people controls how you can run your own business.

But, again, if you like that way of life, have at it. No one's shoving anything down your throat...well, unless you look at the way the unions work.

a reply to: stormcell

And the same article shows that, for all intents and purposes, the same number immigrated to the UK, so the numbers game you're trying to play is a wash.

Also, the article you mention shows absolutely zero correlation between the drop in union power in the UK and emigration rates. I guess what I'm saying is--what point are you trying to make?

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: MarlinGrace
From your article:

When taking into account the cost of living differences between Denmark and the United States, Rantzau’s $21 per hour becomes approximately $14 per hour.

From OP:

On a recent afternoon, Hampus Elofsson ended his 40-hour workweek at a Burger King and prepared for a movie and beer with friends. He had paid his rent and all his bills, stashed away some savings, yet still had money for nights out.

bold emphasis is mine

I do not think many American fastfood workers earning $8 an hour can say they are able to put money in savings after their bills are paid.

Your $8/hr example is a moot point--the article is comparing $14/hr, which is PLENTY to pay bills (rent included) and have money left over, assuming the employee lives within his/her means. The major problem in America is not a lack of living wage (when one is appropriate for skill necessary for a job), it's the live-outside-of-your-means mentality of our culture that people ignorant on how to budget their income get sucked into.

Clearly here is a case where Denmark has defeated America and is better than America. Sorry USA but you are not number one in everything. Actually probably only number one in military spending.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

Minimum wage doesn't matter, what matters is the buying power. The more money that is out in circulation and the people have the less buying power the currency has.

www.numbeo.com...

Indices Difference Info
Consumer Prices in Denmark are 40.11% higher than in United States
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Denmark are 26.83% higher than in United States
Rent Prices in Denmark are 2.34% lower than in United States
Restaurant Prices in Denmark are 87.78% higher than in United States
Groceries Prices in Denmark are 14.39% higher than in United States
Local Purchasing Power in Denmark is 23.93% lower than in United States

Could be in the US of A that corporate profits are more important than easily replaceable workers?

No could be about it, without a doubt its about profits with a corporation.

Hence raising the minimum wage will not fix the problem, because the corporation will pass the operating cost to the consumer in order to continue getting their profits.

Next time that employee from McD on their day off goes to order a Whopper they will discover that the Whopper went up 10% in price while their income only went up 8%, hence they lost 2% buying power.

Note the percentage aren't meant to be literal. However when a business has to raise its prices it usually does so to cover the increase in operating cost (8%) plus a little extra (2%) because consumers don't like it when prices go up. Hence when it does business owners or corporations try to add some padding to prolong the next increase.



The only way raising minimum wage would work to raise the employees standard of living is if: Their income went up AND everything else stayed stagnate. Which is not possible nor likely for the reason you allude to: Business are their to make profit. Especially when you consider that the US corporations are typically OLIGOPOLIES which fix prices.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

Here in good ol' 'Merica, that's called extortion.

Well you can stay in "good ol' 'Merica" then cant you? Not everyone wants the American way of life shoved down there throats!

I honestly did not see anyone trying to shove the American way of life down anyone's throat but I did see that the OP did use the article to make a dig at Americans. Who is actually trying to shove whose values down whose throat in this thread?

In the US of A fastfood workers struggle to make ends meet, yet in Denmark the same fastfood industry pays a fair wage, whats up with that?

Could be in the US of A that corporate profits are more important than easily replaceable workers?

originally posted by: JimTSpock
Clearly here is a case where Denmark has defeated America and is better than America. Sorry USA but you are not number one in everything. Actually probably only number one in military spending.

I don't see where they won anything. They have a higher minimum wage but the cost of food is twice what it is here for a net break-even.

originally posted by: JimTSpock
Clearly here is a case where Denmark has defeated America and is better than America. Sorry USA but you are not number one in everything. Actually probably only number one in military spending.

And prison population dont forget that

originally posted by: NavyDoc


I honestly did not see anyone trying to shove the American way of life down anyone's throat but I did see that the OP did use the article to make a dig at Americans. Who is actually trying to shove whose values down whose throat in this thread?

Maybe I jumped the gun.

Im used to the auto Euro bashing that goes on.


Personally I think it works pretty well in Denmark but it certainly is not a system suited for everyone. What works there wont work in the USA and vice versa.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

Now I ask you, where does the US of A rate in happiness?

Now I ask you, the US has raised minimum wage numerous times, yet where does the US of A rate in happiness?

Happiness is not reached via minimum wage , because the buying power is adjusted. People are LIKELY to be happier when their buying power goes up as they can live a more comfortable live.

A possible reason why the Danes are happier is because they are getting more bang for their dollar ( Krone) from their gov't and genetics.

You want to Make America a better and happier place then forget minimum wage and look at lobbying. Corporations draft the laws in this country, Sponsor the RNC, DNC, political candidates, and they own the Media medium. Of course, the consumer is not going to be happy.

Run a happy index on consumers and board of directors and see where they stand. That will tell you who is running the show.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: NavyDoc


I honestly did not see anyone trying to shove the American way of life down anyone's throat but I did see that the OP did use the article to make a dig at Americans. Who is actually trying to shove whose values down whose throat in this thread?

Maybe I jumped the gun.

Im used to the auto Euro bashing that goes on.


Personally I think it works pretty well in Denmark but it certainly is not a system suited for everyone. What works there wont work in the USA and vice versa.

a reply to: NavyDoc

All things considered I think I would rather be a minimum wage earner in Denmark than America. It seems very difficult to survive on minimum wage in the states but other countries it seems better. Such as Australia $640 per week you can pay rent and buy food. States what $7 an hr, depending on state, x 40 hours is only $280. Sounds tough to pay rent and live on only $280 per week.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

In the US it's all about profit and screwing the little guy. Yea capitalism.

a reply to: JimTSpock

Why be a minimum wage earner anywhere? I earned more than min wage (US) when I was 16 years old working at a deli. I've never had a job that earned basic min wage, and I even worked a summer at Burger King when I was in college. Still made more than min wage.

I would also like to bring up in the U.S. in 2012 4.7% of the work force made min wage or less (the less is waiters/waitresses, etc). That's it! I think liberals and people from other countries are under the impression the majority of Americans are slaving some min wage job that corporations are getting rich off of. Doesn't seem that way eh?

www.bls.gov...