The Bible was written before 70 AD and here is why..

a reply to: graphuto

But the verse doesn't just say if you live by the sword you will die by the sword.

It says put your sword away BECAUSE (Old English: "For") those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

Do you not understand how english works?
He's telling him : "Unless you want to die by the sword, put it away."

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

So I will tell you what you pick out a few of the contradiction you think are most apparent and I will give you my opinion on them.

I'll give you only one, from this site, because I have a follow up question.

Mark 6:8: And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse

Luke 9:3: And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.

My follow up question deals with god's omniscience.

a reply to: graphuto

Do you not understand how english works?
He's telling him : "Unless you want to die by the sword, put it away."

There was no "Unless" there. You added it in yourself. It was spoken as a command: PUT your sword AWAY

a reply to: arpgme

BECAUSE if you live by the sword, you'll die by the sword.

PUT YOUR SWORD AWAY FOR THIS REASON : IF YOU LIVE BY THE SWORD YOU'LL DIE BY THE SWORD

God doesn't have to explain himself. This isn't a command to all of humanity. He was talking to a specific person at a specific time. If he meant it as just a general command, he would have said "Put your sword away."
You know, like tons of other commands where he doesn't explain himself :
Thou shalt not commit murder (because it's really not a nice thing to do to people)
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor (because you shouldn't lie about people to get them in trouble)

Are these things added to the commandments? No.
You can't understand the Bible because you don't believe it.

a reply to: graphuto

So since your god was talking to that specific individual I guess killing is ok otherwise.

I can't even believe I have to have a conversation with someone who claims to believe in God and that God is Love (1 John 4:8), about the immortality of killing.

The world really is falling into darkness.

a reply to: arpgme

You mean the immorality of killing?
You're being dense man.
Sorry, but the Bible doesn't outline a "Love only" God.
I mean it could, if you threw away 3/4 of it.
He is jealous. His name is Jealous.
He is wrathful.
He is holy.
He is also merciful, and longsuffering, and loving.
But by no means is the God of the Bible "Love only."
That's an image of God that you've created in your own mind. The only way you can have this image of God is to throw away 3/4 or more of the Bible.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Killing and murder are 2 separate things.
If someone breaks into my house at night, I can kill them. Both biblically and legally. This is not murder.
If someone commits murder in the 1st degree, and are then executed, is that murder? No.

a reply to: graphuto


"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."- 1 John 4:8



" Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7

You created a false image of God in your own image (which is imperfect - loving AND unloving). God is Love and Love is not self-seeking but your god is selfish, jealous, keeping records of wrongs and loves to rejoice in evil (such as promoting destruction) instead of always protecting against it.

You choose to reject Love and you choose to reject that God is Love. God is not loving God is LOVE itself (which means fully Love)

a reply to: arpgme

Sorry bro, but your one or two verses do nothing against the multitude of verses I've posted supporting the Bibles position.

a reply to: graphuto

I already said that the bible is not 100% of God. If God is Love and there are unloving verses in there then of course it is not 100% of God, if you DO believe it is 100% of God then absolutely those "one or two verses" are just as important as any other - so it should be "doing" something.

a reply to: arpgme

If it's all love, and everyone is fine, then why does the Bible even exist? Why did Jesus talk about hell? Heck, why did Jesus even come? Why are we even sitting here discussing this at all?

I mean, yeah, God IS still love, but that's not all he is. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Love does not = no punishment.

a reply to: graphuto

the Christian Hell was a fabrication of Dante...

Gehenna was a real place... not a mytical place of firey torture like Christians promote...

a reply to: graphuto

If it's all love, and everyone is fine

I didn't say everyone was "fine". Obviously, everyone is not fine if violence/wars are going on. That's not Love.

Why did Jesus talk about hell? Heck, why did Jesus even come?

Love does not = no punishment.

You can't get figs from thorns. If you want figs, then you have to plant figs. It has nothing to do with God not being Love. People get the consequences of their own actions. If you plant thorns in the ground and then you get thorns and don't have any grapes to eat and you starve, does that mean God is not Love? God is Love but you experience the consequences of your own actions, that doesn't mean God is getting "revenge" because he's "angry" at you.

There is the narrow path (Life/Love) and the wide path (death/destruction) if people go into the wide path of the destruction which causes pain and suffering that does not mean God is not Love, it just means they left God (who IS Love and Love brings peace with others) for something else (not love which brings wars and violence with others).

a reply to: Akragon

Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
2 Samuel 22:6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
Job 11:8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
Job 26:6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psalm 18:5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
Psalm 55:15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.
Psalm 86:13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.
Psalm 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Proverbs 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
Proverbs 7:27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
Proverbs 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.
Proverbs 15:11 Hell and destruction are before the Lord: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?
Proverbs 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.
Proverbs 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Proverbs 27:20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.
Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
Isaiah 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isaiah 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Isaiah 57:9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.
Ezekiel 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
Ezekiel 31:17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
Ezekiel 32:21 The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
Ezekiel 32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
Amos 9:2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:
Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
Habakkuk 2:5 Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Matthew 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

There are more but they won't all fit in a post. You really expect anyone to believe what you're saying? That hell is this physical place on earth outside of Jerusalem? What I see over and over is "fire, fire, death, torment". But yeah, you're right, and the Bible is wrong, as usual.

a reply to: graphuto

Actually yeah... LOL

What is more realistic... a place of eternal torment, Or an actual place people knew about... which was also another way of saying "the grave"... In most cases it was allegorical... and even this life could easily be referred to as "hell" and has been...

DO you think posting a page of bible references proves anything?

Try reading the link.. or referencing the word used...

And I didn't say "the bible" is wrong in this case... I said YOU are

Jesus clearly spoke of gehenna... and most Christians have built up imagery place in their mind when the word is used which it does not mean... because its been used as a means of conversion based on fear for milenna

a reply to: Akragon

So you don't believe in eternal life, either?

Posting a page of Bible references would, and should, if you believed it.

originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: Akragon

So you don't believe in eternal life, either?

It would if you actually believed the Bible...

Of course I do...

What I don't believe in is Eternal torture... Or a loving God who would Throw his children in a firey pit because they pissed him off... that's not a Father but a tyrant

Edit: do you read at all?

I know the bible... I don't need you to posta page of references for me to review

a reply to: Akragon

Well. Those that don't believe on Jesus Christ aren't His children. They're His creation, to do with as He pleases.

And yeah, I read. Alot. It's what I spend the majority of my time doing. What are you talking about? And yeah, you clearly DO need a review. You've had your nose in too much man made theology and philosophy hell bent on explaining away and distorting the Bible, and not enough Bible. If you did "know the Bible", you'd know that hell is a real place.

I mean, your lie is the same lie of Satan in the beginning : God didn't really say that.

a reply to: graphuto

That is what I said... Hell (Gehenna) is... or at least was a real place...

The hell you reference is a fabrication of the church... a fear based means of conversion...

Which is completely illogical and incompatible with a merciful, loving God... or a Father

The hell you believe in is as real as superman... or Krypton...

Or a big red guy with horns and a pitch fork... LOL

a reply to: Akragon

Uh...Not according to the Bible...
And as I said earlier :
Those who aren't resting on Jesus Christ for their salvation are not the children of God