The CDC ok'd the Nurse to fly with temperature , after she called them asking if it was ok to fly.

originally posted by: jefwane
I'll be honest this information totally changes my thoughts about this nurse, and reinforces my lack of trust of the cdc. I honestly thought that state and local health officials were competent enough to deal with an Ebola patient or two. I was wrong about that.

I have serious concerns about putting the military in charge of issues that should be able to be handled by civilian authorities, but when to date the civilian authorities have done nothing but eff it up, I have to revisit that thought. I feel like the NBC training i received as a combat arms grunt in the Army damn near twenty years ago better prepared me for a decon than these nurses have, it's time to say to hell with appearances put USAMRIID in charge of the response.

That's just it, Jef. The CDC guidelines for PPE themselves were
deficient, and they all know it. Porous fabric gowns, face
masks and NO footwear.. not to mention point- permeable gloves
didn't cut it. Worst sick joke of the day, sorry.

And my backup is, every time CDC or other high up personnel
showed up it was full positive pressure moon suits w/SCUBA.
Do as we say, don't do as we're doing ... and maybe die from it.

a reply to: jefwane

I agree.
The military has the discipline needed in these situations. Obviously, the civilian sector's headless chicken response is causing more harm than good at this point.
Will this be the straw that breaks the military's resolve?
Please, please people---write to your Congress critters. I'm not one to call for "Con-gressional hearings" at all because they are generally useless but unless their mailboxes are filled, they're going to go about their merry, campaign-fund-raising way, flying about on private jets owned by their corporate masters.
If this is some sort of political event, it certainly looks to me like it is designed to turn the reins over to the loyal opposition. Not since the Jimmah Carter days have I seen so many utterly stupid actions on the part of government agencies. I fear this is the result we get when we teach "consensus" thinking rather than following strict science. I'm quite sure there was a consensus on those protocols they've just revised....

This is not surprising in the least!

Why in the world didn't the CDC recommend her to come in for a test since she did have somewhat of a fever? She was a nurse for an infected Ebola patient after all!!

originally posted by: drwill
a reply to: collietta
Remember, just this morning, Tom Frieden threw her under the bus, giving the impression that she'd acted recklessly on her own. What's the world to believe? I bought his story, and I don't have any respect for Freaky.
Once again, the blame-game circled back and bit him on the arse.

I know, he clearly blamed her for getting onto a plane, when his cdc phone operators ( whoever these idiots are) tell this women there's no need to worry about flying. They must be reading from guidelines. A one size fits all advisor Answering phones. I wonder if they're just housewives looking for jobs answering phones or actual trained nurses, with knowledge of ebola. The main criteria for saying no and not allowing a person onto a plane is exposure to an ebola patient!

Hi I was just treating a guy who had ebola, puking and #ting all around me and now I'm developing a fever, is it ok to fly?

What is your temperature ma'am ?
99.5
Oh it doesn't seem you have ebola, your fever needs to be 100.4 according to this fact sheet I'm reading here that doctor Foolden approved.

I was reading a few posts back where someone brought up the possibility that indigenous animals in the US could become infected and it got me thinking...
Didn't Duncan vomit on the sidewalk? Im pretty sure it wasn't cleaned up right away. Any number of mammals could have been exposed.

I've been reading these forums for a few years now an this is my 1st post. I just feel like I should be involved in the discussion at this point. Kudos to OP and many others for dredging through all this information for us. You're awesome!

I can't understand why she flew anyway. I'm starting to really get a bad feeling about all of this! Just how???? Seriously at a loss.

a reply to: violet

Well no wonder they were so nervous-acting at the press conference... if they told her it was ok to board the flight, and now she's full-blown Ebola. No wonder the airline is contacting all of the passengers 'even tho she was not symptomatic' (so they said/lied.)

Sick and tired of that 'out of an abundance of caution' phrase. More like 'out of an abundance of eat crow and oops.'

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: jefwane

If they're not competent enough to handle 1 they're not competent enough to handle the hypothetical 1,000.

Completely incompetent. There's not even enough level 4 bio containment units in the country! 19 beds for all of you! Actually its 11 though because the one place , out of four , has 10 beds but only two can be staffed. The other three have 3 beds each.

They knew ebola was entering the US, knew this could multiply, but their version of training nurses is to say watch a YouTube video?!! They need hands on practical training. Proper equipment and tests to see who passed.

a reply to: new_here

Another thing that wrong with telling her its ok to board a plane, is it delayed her own treatment, after they say its best to get treated as soon as possible. They should have said get to a hospital, get treated. So now she's very sick. Much worse than nurse Pham.

They don't give a rats ass if she infected others on that plane but played it up today she shouldn't have flown and now because of that ( her) we have to find these passengers. Also heard these passengers claim all they got in this "tracking" of them was told to watch for symptoms. Nothing else was said and they most likely issued these false temperature of what constitutes a fever, when we know now its lower than what they've been claiming it was. They aren't really being tracked.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
How does this fit into the timeline with the first nurse and the subsequent isolation of the 70 or so staff members who worked on Duncan? I thought they all went into isolation? I've lost track.

Hmm, I'm not sure they went into isolation. Only those close to the patients. The nurses were told to monitor themselves.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: violet

Just a little correction please to your title? We learned in med school...everyone has a TEMPERATURE all the time, everyday! But, not everyone has a FEVER (elevated temperature)!

We used to get yelled at for saying that!

I wasn't sure what to put, my mistake, you're right but I can't edit the title now

a reply to: the owlbear
When I was in hospital, sometimes I had no vitals. I said " I'm dead!" . My temp is usually low.

a reply to: Roisin

Could be, but this was confirmed by the CDC that they said this to her.

I am so angered by this, that I am about to say the most hate filled comment I've ever uttered on ATS, forgive me for this please as this is well against my normal character.

This gutless worm of a prick Tom Frieden, the incompetent, the grossly unqualified, the idiotic uppity filth that's ruthlessly making foolish blunder after blunder while sitting safely at the top. I wan't to see his wormy face covered in a cheap mask and sticky tape covering exposed bits of skin while he tends to the infected and dying. Make him get the gravity of this situation.

This BS needs to stop, TV needs to stop and play a message worldwide, on loop explaining that ebola will easily wipe out half this planet if it is not taken seriously. Infected should be moved to a desert tent city and be let to fend for themselves as humanly as possible. There is no real cure yet, some maybe treatments... If you get it, you may as well consign yourself to dying and for the love of your family, friends, and humankind - remove yourself.

It is harsh, it is however a very nasty virus though and at least arming everybody with the knowledge to of what to do, and the implications of multi-passenger travel. There needs to be a smack in the face campaign that says if you get infected that giving your kids one last hug before you quarantine yourself is giving them a death sentence.

Area's with mass outbreaks need to stop worrying about the millions, and have the balls to ban air flights out of the country. Who cares about some airlines revenue, who will probably sue for loss of earnings. pfft. When my family becomes at risk, I get mad, I get riled up and this ongoing gross incompetence is going to be devastating on a massive scale.

Pull your finger out Tom, do your damn job.

*trying to calm down now, again sorry if I've offended anyone.
**Disclaimer, the reason I am so angry tonight is my daughter has started to worry about it, how come we can't stop it? Why do they let the nurses go home? Should they not all be under supervision and being tested? Why are the planes still going? Will it come to Australia? We're safe here right?
I've answered her as best as I can in the most gentle way, we grew up in fear of aids, for her it will be Ebola. I am very upset and know this will be on her mind and she will be very worried.

I would like to see a transcript of the conversation as we don't know if this nurse even explained her situation.
She could of just rang up and said she had a temperature and if it was ok to fly without even mentioning she had been around an Ebola patient. It really wouldn't surprise me seeing as she doesn't have the intelligence to figure it out herself.

I think if she were truthful/aware about the situation she could of rang up her local pizzeria and they'd tell her not to fly.

a reply to: violet

Personally i believe this a huge flaw in the guidelines but unfortunately i can understand exactly how this happened...
Nurse: "Hi i have a fever of 99.5, does this mean im still allowed to fly?"
Health worker: "one second please"... *opens Ebola algorithm on computer, looks through the flow see that it says temp of 100.4..pauses for a moment and thinks hmmm its not there yet, policy is policy*... "yes that is fine continue to monitor temp and call again if you have concerns.

You have to draw a line in the sand and unfortunately thats not a catch all system.

a reply to: violet

Great catch. Clarifies that we are not really prepared.

Here's hoping authorities catch up. F&S

I was reading through these posts and wondering what are the guidelines regarding fever levels for those passengers flying out of Africa? We are constantly being told that they have specific protocols established at these west African airports, so there is no need to close down flights. If someone like this 2nd nurse is being allowed on the flights, by the time they arrive at their destination, they may be quite contagious! Anyone know what the guideline is at those airports?