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John 3:16, Begotten or not? Who are the Son's of God? Who are the Nephlim?

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posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 06:02 PM
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I know this is a lot for one thread but it's all related.

John 3:16 My Interpretation

God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son created in his likeness, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If you look at the translations biblehub.com... it
seems many translators have had an issue with begotten. Why?

be·get
1. (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.



Here are several places in KJV/NASB that speak of Jesus as the only "begotten" Son of God

John 3:16 (most well known);
John 1:14 and 18 Again over in 1 John 4:9

The word "begotten" generally suggests the idea of originating from or being produced by someone else

Genesis chapter 5; Matthew chapter 1
Yes, the human person of Jesus was born into a human family [see next section], but the pre-incarnate Son of God as a divine person has no originâ€

Other places where it is stated that Jesus is "begotten" or "born" of God; translated from Greek gennao

Hebrews 1:5; 5:5; Acts 13:33, all quotes from Psalm 2:7, likely referring to Christ's birth and arrival as the promised Messiah

Same word is translated as "born" in regards to Jesus in Matthew 2:1, 4; Luke 1:35; 1 John 5:1 (also v18 regarding Christians who are born of God)
www.biblelessons.com...




The phrase "only begotten" in the above-mentioned verses, in the original Greek language, is monogenes (pronounced hard g as in go; Strong #3439)…

Combination of two words: "monos" which means "only" or "alone," and "genos" which means "of the same nature, kind, sort, species"

A better translation might be "only one of its kind" or "only unique" or just "only," but not "begotten."

www.biblelessons.com...



If you look at the original Greek you can see how I come up with "only son created in his(God's) likeness.

Where does the translation Begotten come from?



And Mary the daughter of ‘Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit. – Qur’an 66.12 – ‘Ali

She said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?” He said: “Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a Plan. He but saith to it, ‘Be,’ and it is! – Qur’an 3.47 – ‘Ali

This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit. – Bible Matthew 1:18

Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. – Bible Matthew 1:20

“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. – Bible Luke 1:34-35

The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. – Bible Isaiah 7:14 & Matthew 1:23
wherethefaithsmeet.info...

You see it could be assumed by reading the texts that the Holy Spirit had a physical relationship with Marry, even though this is not the modern belief. The Koran is accurate that God only speak it and it Be.

God SAID let thier be Light/Christ, and the Koran says this about God He SAYITH be and it is.

Do we have any example of where the word begotten came from? Where did the idea of the more physical relationship come from?

The Gnostic texts that were correctly left out of the biblical cannon.

Book of Enoch en.m.wikipedia.org... and the Angel watchers of God giving birth to Nephlim. If one can assume the angels have intercourse with humans than one could also imagine that the Holy Spirit had intercourse with Marry. But of course these are only people's imaginations working in overdrive.

For OT reference you can use this website and see most translators have gone away from the word begotten in the OT as well. Here is psalms 2-7. biblehub.com...

What does the bible say about who the sons of God are?



John 1:12 ESV
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Galatians 3:26
For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

Romans 8:17-19 ESV
And if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.

1 John 2:28-3:10
And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming. If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him. See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

1 Peter 2:10
Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
www.openbible.info...


According to scripture anyone who follows "the Light", Jesus Christ within, is considered a son of God. So who are the Nephlim?



Genesis 6:1-22 ESV
When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


Cont....
edit on 15-10-2014 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 06:04 PM
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Most interpretations of the Nephlim paint the Son's of God and the Nephlim in a positive light. Then why is the passage so negative?

Here is my interpretation of the passage. Genesis 6:1-22



When humans began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the men who were following the Holy Spirit saw that women were attractive.

Breaking the natural law, they took as their wives any they chose (polygamy). In his anger the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the one's who obeyed the Holy Spirit bore children with their wives(polygamy).

These were the mighty men who were of old, the MEN OF RENOWN. The Lord saw that the WICKEDNESS of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only EVIL continually.


I think the Nephlim were the children of wealthy religious men who broke the natural law and practiced polygamy. This broke the equality that had existed between men and women, where women were cherished more for their physical and sexual beauty than for love.

This act of selfishness on the part of the father allows the youth to justify behavior that would have otherwise seemed unjustifiable.

God is obviously not happy in this passage and I believe the sexual degradation of women was accompanied by the spiritual degradation of the children.

By degrading women, destroying families and teaching selfishness God says that every intention was evil. History repeats itself.

Since we our the children of God we should assume the Nephlim are not supernatural. And the Holy Spirit did not have sexual relations with Marry and beget Jesus Christ.

The bible and the Koran agree, Jesus is the only one called Messiah, a unique child without sin born in the image of God. But not begotten.

The father said to the Light (Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit) be and he became. He is, was, and is to come. He is the only Son created in the likeness of the father. We are on the path to become like him, like our father.

edit on 15-10-2014 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25
"Begotten" is simply a metaphor, the nearest human word available for "one person being the source of another person".

It cannot be translated as "created", because ch1 v2 says the Word (= the Son, as identified a few verses later) was the channel of creation for ALL created things.
This being the case, he had to be in existence BEFORE all created things, and therefore can't be included among the created things himself.
"All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made".
Obviously "begetting" is not accurate, because, as you say, the Father-Son relationship is not a physical one, but it's the nearest word we've got. Which is why the Creeds use it.

The New Testament understanding is that this Son is unique.
Men become "sons of God" in a lesser sense through their relationship with this original Son.
Thus "to them he [the Word] gave power to become the children of God"- John ch1 v12
"God sent forth his Son...that you might receive adoption as sons". Galatians ch4 v4
Thus he is Son by (metaphorical) birth, we are sons by "adoption".

Your interpretation of the Nephilim is probably as good as any. I don't have a theory there.
edit on 15-10-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

There is a fundamental understanding that you are overlooking about why Jesus is referred to as Yahweh's "only begotten son". I don't need interpretations and translations. I let the Bible speak for itself. John says that in the beginning was the word, the word was God and the word became flesh. He's not referring to anything God spoke into existence in the creation account, contrary to what the heathens who follow the Koran would probably like you to believe. John was not referring to anything or anybody else but Jesus in that chapter, who was God by his very nature as stated in Philippians 2. So Its really simple, Jesus is Gods only begotten son because Jesus was God's only true extension into nature. God is pure spirit, and since this is the case, then that means that there is nothing in nature that can be compared to God, he is entirely separate from nature. Jesus was the only physical representation of God himself, where God manifested himself in the flesh. Comparing God to anybody else other than Jesus is making a graven image of God.



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 07:33 PM
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Mankind was CREATED (as in not in existence before) in God's image, BOTH male and female. They were whole.

Adam was FORMED in Genesis 2, then Eve was taken from the rib and formed. Formed means taking the archetype and producing a copy.

First Born cannot be Adam, because he was formed. Eve was formed as well. Cain was born. If you check Luke 3, you find this:

37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,
the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,
the son of Kenan, 38 the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

Adam was produced from the IMAGE of the Son of God. Who formed Adam? Yahweh, the son of God. Who was Jesus the incarnation of? Yahweh, the humbled Son of God, who also proclaimed Himself to be the only God. Who formed the Snake in the garden to deceive Adam?

Genesis 1

3 The snake was more clever than all the wild animals Yahweh Elohim had made. He asked the woman, “Did Elohim really say, ‘You must never eat the fruit of any tree in the garden’?”

Now, simply ask yourself who the Prodigal Son was and who the one producing the fallen creation is:

Colossians 1

15 He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn of all creation.
16 He created all things in heaven and on earth,
visible and invisible.
Whether they are kings or lords,
rulers or powers—
everything has been created through him and for him.
17 He existed before everything
and holds everything together.
18 He is also the head of the church, which is his body.
He is the beginning,
the first to come back to life
so that he would have first place in everything.

If you simply use the names of God Bible, you then discover that Elohim is Father and Ruach Elohim is Mother. They created the paradise image of Genesis 1. There were no restrictions to the Garden or its fruit. Man was BOTH Male and Female in the image of God (Elohim / Ruach Elohim). The Holy Spirit is the Ruach Elohim, the same one that made peace with the Son of God (Yahweh) at his baptism by the sign of the Dove. The Father said well pleased. Why? He paid his penance on the cross for proclaiming Himself God. In turn, all of mankind is free from His error of dividing mankind into Male and Female.

In the Islamic tradition, one Angel refused to incorporate into a material body and bow to Adam. That's Satan. What is Satan, or the snake? The continuance of creation past God's resting period, or his lower nature of the prodigal son in rebellion.

As Colossians states, the Son of God was born. Adam was not born. Jesus was, as the Kinsman Redeemer.

Job 19 then tells you about this:

But I know that my Go’el (Redeemer) lives,
and afterwards, he will rise on the earth.
26 Even after my skin has been stripped off my body,
I will see Eloah in my own flesh.
27 I will see him with my own eyes,
not with someone else’s.
My heart fails inside me!
Job Warns His Friends

28 “You say,
‘We will persecute him!
The root of the problem is found in him.’
29 Fear death,
because your anger is punishable by death.
Then you will know there is a judge.”

Don't hound him because the error is found in him. Instead, thank him for saving us all and paying the penalty for the fall from the true Heaven of Genesis 1.


edit on 15-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 07:42 PM
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My thoughts :

This whole idea of "Nephillim" is ridiculous foolishness.
In fact, that word is never even mentioned in the Bible.


Hebrews 1:5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?


To which of the angels did he EVER say that they were his son? None of them. Sons of God aren't angels. Believers are. And Jesus is the only begotten Son.


Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.



It's simply stating that there were giants in those days, and also after that.
When the sons of God (believers) came in unto the daughters of men (regular people), those children became mighty men, men of renown.

This doesn't say anything about angels and humans crossbreeding and creating some ridiculous "half man, half angel" sort of being.
Pretty bizarre exegesis of scripture, if you ask me.

edit on 15-10-2014 by graphuto because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 07:46 PM
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originally posted by: BlackManINC
a reply to: [post=18540787]sacgamer25



I let the Bible speak for itself. John says that in the beginning was the word, the word was God and the word became flesh. He's not referring to anything God spoke into existence in the creation account, contrary to what the heathens who follow the Koran would probably like you to believe. John was not referring to anything or anybody else but Jesus in that chapter,


Isn't the WORD SPOKEN? Despite what you learned at church, Jesus Christ is the light in Genesis, Just as he confirms in the new testament. He was created.

Thus when his disciple says good teacher and he replies, "why do you call ME good", he ahows that he bows in to submission to the father, who is the CREATOR, Jesus is the Holy Light that was CREATED.

Jesus is man's creator because he is our lord YHWH. But he says he only does what his father tells him.

So although Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, YHWH created us he considers us like him amd wishes that we worship our father. Because we are all a part of the light, and we were all created, including the one who is the light.

God is love. Many people say he is more than love and I say he is not. I say the more we evolve in our understanding of love the closer we will come to understanding our father.

God is Love, and mankind is in our infancy of understanding.
edit on 15-10-2014 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

God is love. He is also jealous, and wrathful.

Exodus 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

edit on 15-10-2014 by graphuto because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-10-2014 by graphuto because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 07:57 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

If he is the light in Genesis, is he still before all other things, except the father and possibly the elements that were used to create the light, which makes up everything that we see, everything spoken by God? Since Jesus only does what his father TELLS, speaks, to him.

Jesus was, is and is to come.
Jesus is before all things, God is not defined not as a thing.

Every mention of Christ fits the description of the light in Genesis. He was created by his father, he is the only son born in the likeness of God, Holy and without sin. When Jesus was spoken he was and is perfect light, in him their is no darkness, he is like his father. But he is not his father, he is our Shepard sent to lead us to our father/Love. Which is why he called us brothers and friends.
edit on 15-10-2014 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 08:06 PM
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originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: sacgamer25

God is love. He is also jealous, and wrathful.

Exodus 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:


Is Love Jealous and Wrathful when it's heart gets broken?

Lets ask Adele why she set FIRE to the Rain

But I set fire to the rain,
Watched it pour as I touched your face,
Well, it burned while I cried

The moral of the story, if you dont want to see God's jealousy and wrath don't break his heart. Otherwise he might set FIRE to your RAIN.
.



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 08:06 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25


John 3:16 My Interpretation God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son created in his likeness, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. If you look at the translations biblehub.com... it seems many translators have had an issue with begotten. Why?

The Greek translation from the majority Greek texts = John 3:16 -- "For thus loved God the world so as the son the only begotten he gave that everyone believing in him may not perish but may have life eternal."

You ask why do many translators have an issue with the word "begotten." Mostly because of several factors. The foremost is that of money. If you were to interpret the translation in your own understanding, have it published, that is your copyright. Now you can sell that interpretation to enough people and make millions. The trick is to find your customers in the many denominations of confusion in the religious market.

Secondly is the factor of doctrine. Many denominations have doctrines which differ on whether Jesus was simply another human or was He an entity which preexisted in the celestial realm. Some believe that Jesus preexisted in heaven as Gods image and that He was not created but was begotten of the Spirit God. This is that of the majority Greek texts. He had life within himself and was known as "The Word of God". You can find this in John 1:1-5 -- The Jehovah Witnesses used the KJV bible for a good many years and then re interpreted the KJV bible, changed words which changed thoughts to coincide with their doctrine. They already had the customers who were their members. This is one of many reasons for the many bibles in the denominations of religion.

Others deny that Jesus was begotten of God and that He was nothing more than another human man. Others believe that Jesus was an angel or a prophet or simply a teacher. As you can see the entire subject is what do you want to believe.

I did notice that your interpretation is that Jesus was created. At least that is what you stated. Then if that is your belief Jesus is not begotten in your understanding and you must not believe that the thousands of Greek majority texts are true.

To understand the first century Christians you must realize that Jesus' flesh, blood, and bones were in the same image as the celestial Word of God. Humans were fashioned in God's image after His likeness. This means that the human race was fashioned after the celestial image of The Word of God. God did not have an image till He brought forth (begat) His image as a separate entity know as "The Word of God." This is that understanding of "begotten." Even though there was a substance change the terrestrial image is the same as the celestial image. The Holy Spirit is the same because it is not of the terrestrial substance. Moses explains this as the image being the outer garment (either spiritual or terrestrial body) and the likeness as being the life that is within that body. The spirit always is that which directs or controls the body.



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 08:28 PM
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a reply to: Seede

The word beget has it's origin in the 13th century. So how can you say it has its origins in the first century.

It's main meaning is to father a child.

Mohammed was refuting the idea of a human type of relationship between God and Marry. Otherwise the verses in the Quran would make no since.

Mohammed says God created everything but begot nothing. That is a contradiction according to your use of the word.

So the idea of God begitting a son by human methods still existed when Mohammed was given the Quran. Unless the translators of both texts are wrong, but I think it's only the bible that is mistranslated.

Begotten may have taken on other meanings since the 13th century but it was and is a bad translation of the Greek texts.



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 08:28 PM
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edit on 15-10-2014 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 08:30 PM
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originally posted by: graphuto
My thoughts :

This whole idea of "Nephillim" is ridiculous foolishness.
In fact, that word is never even mentioned in the Bible.


Hebrews 1:5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?


To which of the angels did he EVER say that they were his son? None of them. Sons of God aren't angels. Believers are. And Jesus is the only begotten Son.


Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.



It's simply stating that there were giants in those days, and also after that.
When the sons of God (believers) came in unto the daughters of men (regular people), those children became mighty men, men of renown.

This doesn't say anything about angels and humans crossbreeding and creating some ridiculous "half man, half angel" sort of being.
Pretty bizarre exegesis of scripture, if you ask me.


In the book of Job, it is agreed that the sons of god were angels as they existed some time before the creation of the earth in the presence of God himself. Job is the oldest book in the Bible, before even the first five books of Moses, it gives a very strong indication of the known identity of the sons of god. Keeping the term "sons of god" in Genesis 6 in context, we see that neither Seth, his descendants or any other "believer" was ever referred to as "sons of god" in any kind of spiritual sense, nor in a physical sense minus Adam, since Adam, like the angels was a direct creation of God. So when we are told that "men" began to multiply on the face of the earth, and that the sons of God saw the daughters of "men", we see the human race, who are the generations of Adam, is clearly distinguished from the "sons of God". The clear cut meaning is that these beings were sons of God, rather than of men, because they were created, not born.



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: BlackManINC

Chapter and verse in Job where it's agreed that angels and sons of God are the same thing, please.



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 08:47 PM
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originally posted by: sacgamer25

originally posted by: BlackManINC
a reply to: [post=18540787]sacgamer25



I let the Bible speak for itself. John says that in the beginning was the word, the word was God and the word became flesh. He's not referring to anything God spoke into existence in the creation account, contrary to what the heathens who follow the Koran would probably like you to believe. John was not referring to anything or anybody else but Jesus in that chapter,


Isn't the WORD SPOKEN? Despite what you learned at church, Jesus Christ is the light in Genesis, Just as he confirms in the new testament. He was created.

Thus when his disciple says good teacher and he replies, "why do you call ME good", he ahows that he bows in to submission to the father, who is the CREATOR, Jesus is the Holy Light that was CREATED.

Jesus is man's creator because he is our lord YHWH. But he says he only does what his father tells him.

So although Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, YHWH created us he considers us like him amd wishes that we worship our father. Because we are all a part of the light, and we were all created, including the one who is the light.

God is love. Many people say he is more than love and I say he is not. I say the more we evolve in our understanding of love the closer we will come to understanding our father.

God is Love, and mankind is in our infancy of understanding.


This is the length that cults like Jehovah witness will take terms like "begotten" to mean "created". In sound Biblical doctrine, God finished his work of creation on the sixth day, and there has been no "creation" ever since. So Jesus is not a created being, before all things were made, he was "the word", the first born of every creature, for by Jesus was all things created from the beginning as Paul stated in Colossians 1, nothing existed before him because he was God, "the word" from the beginning.



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

This definition of begotten:



The word "begotten" generally suggests the idea of originating from or being produced by someone else


...inspired me to see the passage "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son..." in a whole new light.

The Angels and Jesus are sons of God. Jesus was the only 'begotten' son because he was the only one to be born from a human's womb. Mary gave birth to Jesus (aka 'begot' him) whereas all sons of God were initially created by God speaking them into existence. No begetting by involved. Jesus existed with God before being begotten, just as all the Angels did/do. But Jesus is the only one of them 'begotten' by a woman. The only 'begotten' son.

I'm not sure I explained that well, but I see a difference in that He is not the ONLY son, but the only BEGOTTEN son.

Interesting.

edit on 10/15/2014 by new_here because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 09:07 PM
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originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: sacgamer25

This definition of begotten:



The word "begotten" generally suggests the idea of originating from or being produced by someone else


...inspired me to see the passage "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son..." in a whole new light.

The Angels and Jesus are sons of God. Jesus was the only 'begotten' son because he was the only one to be born from a human's womb. Mary gave birth to Jesus (aka 'begot' him) whereas all sons of God were initially created by God speaking them into existence. No begetting by involved. Jesus existed with God before being begotten, just as all the Angels did/do. But Jesus is the only one of them 'begotten' by a woman. The only 'begotten' son.

I'm not sure I explained that well, but I see a difference in that He is not the ONLY son, but the only BEGOTTEN son.

Interesting.


Jesus didn't just exist with God before he was begotten, he was God in his very essence from the beginning.



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 09:09 PM
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Genesis 6:1-22 ESV
"When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

It is my belief that the sons of God here are fallen angelic beings who committed the quoted acts. The reason being is history supports this conclusion. Aside from being divinely inspired (not ghost written) the Bible is a great source of historical information. Most scholars agree that Genesis was written post-exilic and that cultural transfusion introduced somewhat pagan or confusing concepts into the Bible. It doesn't make it right it just means it's there. Actually I think that you and I are right. That phrase has multiple meanings that help to track the morphology of the Bible. Some supporting points being:

1. Earliest scroll fragments at Qumran support sons of god to sons of israel translation in Duet. 32:8


How is it that the number of the pagan nations
was determined in relation to an entity (Israel) or individuals (Jacob and his household)
that did not yet exist?
Source

1.5 Coincidentally these seventy nations in Duet. apportioned to Yahweh's sons similar to another Bronze Age Canaanite belief. In Northern Syria there is a site called Ugarit where it was discovered it's inhabitants worshiped El, Asherah, and Baal in a pantheonic style. El had seventy sons (gods).


The prophets of the Old Testament rail against Baal, Asherah and various other gods on nearly every page. The reason for this is simple to understand; the people of Israel worshipped these gods along with, and sometimes instead of, Yahweh, the God of Israel. This Biblical denunciation of these Canaanite gods received a fresh face when the Ugaritic texts were discovered, for at Ugarit these were the very gods that were worshipped......In 1 Kings 22:19-22 we read of Yahweh meeting with his heavenly council. This is the very description of heaven which one finds in the Ugaritic texts. For in those texts the “sons of god” are the sons of El.
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I contend that the sons of god here are not men but created beings.

2. Yet, Second temple scribes write that we are all gods


God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Psalm 82 ESV

So, fallen angels or righteous men and gentiles? My answer is both. We use clues from the time period to create a broader picture of what was and wasn't mentioned. You can see these contextual differences, the inherent railings in many books of the OT specifically Isiah. In one instance a thing is admitted then prohibited soon after. Ultimately I'll let Yeshua's words be the definitive answer to your question ask him



posted on Oct, 15 2014 @ 09:21 PM
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originally posted by: BlackManINC

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: sacgamer25

This definition of begotten:



The word "begotten" generally suggests the idea of originating from or being produced by someone else


...inspired me to see the passage "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son..." in a whole new light.

The Angels and Jesus are sons of God. Jesus was the only 'begotten' son because he was the only one to be born from a human's womb. Mary gave birth to Jesus (aka 'begot' him) whereas all sons of God were initially created by God speaking them into existence. No begetting by involved. Jesus existed with God before being begotten, just as all the Angels did/do. But Jesus is the only one of them 'begotten' by a woman. The only 'begotten' son.

I'm not sure I explained that well, but I see a difference in that He is not the ONLY son, but the only BEGOTTEN son.

Interesting.


Jesus didn't just exist with God before he was begotten, he was God in his very essence from the beginning.


Yes, but he prayed to God the Father "take this cup from me if it by Thy Will" and He sits at the right hand of God, and He said, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" and "Father, into Thy Hands I commend My Spirit." Pretty sure He wasn't talking to Himself. It's complicated, the Trinity. But They seem to be able to be One, but at the same time communicate amongst themselves. So there is that. After all, Jesus was begotten, while God the Father ordained it, and remained in Heaven and Jesus communed with Him. Like I said... complicated.







 
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