Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by motionknight
Why are you on this site when you want solid proof for everything.

Do you see how ridiculous your position is? I doubt very much that you do.

You're hopelessly indoctrinated into the looney bin way of thinking.

his position that he doesn't need proof of anything?
all human cognition is based on pattern recognition. learn about fuzzy logic, and then tell me that you need proof to see the pattern of FASCISM.

No, I don't require solid proof for everything. You know what it is, my asking for proof? It's a reaction to the comments and crap that gets hurled in here as soon as anyone asks for someone to back up what they are saying. A partial list of terms thrown at me in just this one thread: dumbed down, apologist, hard-core Bushie, justifying decimation and lack of accountability, cheering on the evildoers, covering up wrongdoing, etc., etc.
And why? Because I've asked for some data to back up allegations.

The anti-Bush crowd is very quick to jump on people that disagree with them. It makes it look like your case is so weak that you are afraid of any challenge to it. I'm all for accepting circumstantial, and sometimes even anecdotal evidence, but I'm not going to go on blind faith like you (the collective you) are. If you don't have any evidence, then fine. Don't turn it into a personal attack on me.

God gave the tiger stealth and sharp teeth. He gave the eagle wings and a sharp eye. We're the weaklings of the animal kingdom, in terms of physical strength. But God gave us a brain to work with. Now if you choose to abandon that fact, and go along with the jeering mob and mob-think mentaliy, then fine for you. Sit around the campfire and elect the biggest story teller as your ruler. Don't think. Don't question. Just feel your way through life.

Good luck to you.

Chrystaffur

I don't want to go through your whole response except to agree that things are much more easily pulled off in code than silicon, but I did want to make this comment:

woulldn't it be more effective to manually adjust audit values after the doors closed? Remotely doing some by way of network would be far easier than that and in real time no less. Automated would be as difficult as manual albeit different circumstances involved, still quite possible though.

I don't know if you followed some of the earlier evoting machine models, but one of their weakpoints was that some hackers used auto-dialers to get into the machine's modem.

My jaw hit the floor when I read that. Not because they could do it, but because there was actually a modem connection to begin with. How stupid could the designers be to leave the back door wide open? So, networks are out of the question.

I've said it a million times - whomever designed, sold, or bought these machines should be fired. Give me a second year engineering class from MIT, Stanford, or other decent school, and I'll build you a better system for 1/0th the price in 1/10th the time.

Other than that, I've enjoyed reading your responses given from a coder's perspective.

Originally posted by jsobecky
You know what it is, my asking for proof? It's a reaction to the comments and crap that gets hurled in here as soon as anyone asks for someone to back up what they are saying. A partial list of terms thrown at me in just this one thread: dumbed down, apologist, hard-core Bushie, justifying decimation and lack of accountability, cheering on the evildoers, covering up wrongdoing, etc., etc.
And why? Because I've asked for some data to back up allegations.
If you don't have any evidence, then fine.
Don't think. Don't question. Just feel your way through life.

evidence HAS been provided. there IS no jeering mob. the people who have noticed too many inconsistancies in news 'stories', and 'programming', 'embeddedness', 'convergence', and general monopolization and privatization of everything are quite a vast minority.
it is not 'we' who are not thinking and not questioning. it is quite the uphill battle that is being waged by blackboxvoting. they rely entirely on donations for funding, and if you've been to the site, you'll see that election officials are being uncooperative to the point of stonewalling. the election people seem to be above the law, or at least, the law seems to be letting them getting away with illegally locking doors, illegally refusing FOIA requests, or charging outrageuos amounts for access.
in an open society, this kind of behaviour is beyond suspicious.

the 'attacks' on you were probably inspired by the fact that you seem to making something seem impossible which is possible, and that real evidence has backed up, and that it obviously true. there was voter fraud. you are now arguing that it was not widespread. this has not been proven. we DO know that there was fraud in florida, and fraud in ohio. that's pretty geographically widespread, anyway.
for an obviously smart guy, you seem to be willfully ignoring evidence, and saying it doesn't exist, even after you have been provided with links to evidence. you also seem to be using typical persuasion techniques, like belittling the opponent, obfuscation through technical jargon, turning logical discourse into personal discourse, and completely ignoring the strongest evidence provided. to still try and hold that 'our' side is living in fantasy land is akin to blind faith on your part.

did you read where a confrontation with florida election officials turned into a tug of war with a garbage bag? and the bag ripped open, and 'tapes' full of dem voted spilled all over the ground? did you read anything at the blackboxvoting site? they have the evidence that you asked for.

and, remember, i'm not a bushie, or a kerryie. i think the justice system should get effective and imprison the lot of them. the election system, even if it were functioning honestly, is still hopelessly corrupted by the 'oil soaked monopoly press', and the backroom dealing of big government and big business. the corporation rules. it is time to take down the monopolies, just like they did with standard oil way back.

there need to be laws preventing politicians from becoming 'advisors' and 'consultants' for big business, or from getting any money at all from business. that is the keystone, which if removed, would bring a modicrum of reality to the system. don't ask me where the money will come from, because then i'll have to get into a big tirade about the usury slave system that the big banks use to keep the world by the short and curlies, and i gotta go for now.

good luck to you, too.