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In sworn affidavit, programmer says he developed vote-rigging prototype for Florida congressman

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posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:02 PM
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Howdy folks...

Something doesn't look right here...

According to this...


While working for Yang Enterprises in Florida


www.bluelemur.com...

Its Yang Enterprises...


But...

According to his website...


While employed at Wong Enterprises


www.JustAFlyOnTheWall.com...

It's Wong Enterprises...

Registrant:
clint curtis

Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: JUSTAFLYONTHEWALL.COM

Domain servers in listed order:
WSC1.JOMAX.NET
WSC2.JOMAX.NET

For complete domain details go to:
whois.godaddy.com...

www.whois.net...


So which company did Mr Curtis work for ?




posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:04 PM
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Really, again I just don't see how such fraud is possible when you are talking about so many people, so many poll watchers, so many commitees, etc. Yes there was voter fraud, on both sides I'm sure. There has been in every election this size in history. We just don't have a system yet that doesn't have some percentage of error, though its very small now and is in no way enough to have swung the election this time. The thing is it takes place on both sides and the two sides pretty much cancel out each other.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
How many more times do I have to read this dribble. Get over it.....or get OUT.



I diagnose the good doctor with tendencies to both voyeurism and masochism (given that he is driven to keep reading that which he does not like) and with an authority complex.

Unfortunately I doubt that anyone who cares about voter rights and democracy will be listening to him much.

Elsewhere at ATS there are people equally apathetic about counting and audit and truth, who gloat over looming deadlines.

As your most basic democratic and civil rights are eroded every hour of every day, there will be a cheering throng at ATS saying "Good job, good job" to the incumbent criminal gang. Go figure.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by jukyu
We just don't have a system yet that doesn't have some percentage of error, though its very small now and is in no way enough to have swung the election this time.



I would be interested to see your evidence of this.

Your position seems to be that you are tolerant of fraud as long as it is not big fraud.

And then you make an untested assumption that the fraud was not big, and that it should not be audited.

It does not compute.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:31 PM
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Ok, let me rephrase things. I think we need to fix the system so that there is zero fraud but I'm saying that as long as we're dealing with real world mechanics as long as the variables cancel each other out then thats about as much as we can hope for. As long as elections are the responsibility of local commitees I don't see how you're ever not going to have some mistakes / fraud. My parents votes didn't count this time around because the machine they voted on wasn't supposed to take as many votes as it did. But, I'm sure somewhere else there was fraud on the other side or a mistake and someone else lost their vote and it just kind of cancels out. Isn't it just kind of assumed that when you have 200 million plus people do anything, there will be some mistakes?

Bah, how do I put this? Basically we need to fix the system in some way though I have no idea how realistically. But, until we do the best we can hope for is that if there is fraud on one side there's about the same amount on the other side.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:38 PM
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This is a very horrible thing, and needs to be stoped, but how?
My first thought is why not the oposing party? They should be the ones screeming loudest of any body.
Next what should be dont to keep it from hapening again?
Also I do think this is bad for terror.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:48 PM
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DrHoracid, If you don't want to read it feel free to leave.


Apparently a Raymond Lemme did work for the Florida Inspector General's office and died in 2003.
From the IG DOT's annual report and work plan for 2003 (at bottom)

In Memory of
Larry Shelfer
1949-2003
Ray Lemme
1947-2003
Our Co-workers and Friends

Certainly doesn't prove anything, but does fit with affidavit.
Haven't been able to find a publicly available death certificate online or an obituary that says how he died.

jukyu, that sounds like a rationale.
If someone else cheats makes it 'ok' for me to cheat?
From what I've seen the voting irregularities seem to have been almost exclusively in favor of Republicans. I take it you are a Republican [supporter]?

tried to edit to add link, unsuccessful, you will have to do a search for it.


[edit on 7-12-2004 by slank]



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 06:02 PM
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Unfortunately, no matter how much proof (or lack of as some would argue) is presented, nothing will change. Bush is president for the next four years. It sucks, we can only hope those in the GOP that have evaded Rove's mind control will do their best to keep him in check, we'll see. Of course this is a conspiracy site, so this is a valid topic, but it is frustrating to see good people still holding on to hope that this 2nd term election theft will be turned around somehow. Also, with this being a conspiracy site, we should all be at least somewhat aware the government we elect has little power, those who really run things are not so clearly labeled, so really, IMO, it doesn't matter who we choose to be the "face" of our leadership, we don't elect the true leaders at all. I'm tired of worrying about the things they put out there for us to worry about, it's probably all a decoy to keep our attention diverted away from bigger things, I'm not sure I even want to know what they are either. Maybe all these Bushies are on to something, ignorance is bliss. Tap me on the shoulder when the revolution starts!




posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by Jedi_Master
Howdy folks...

Something doesn't look right here...


This is what I've found Jedi_Master:

In what he describes as "an attempt to get this story out there", Curtis told part of the tale on a website, www.justaflyonthewall.com... where he has changed the names of some of the specific parties involved. (e.g. "Wong" is substituted for "Yang" on the site)

Additional charges by Curtis also include that databases and information were routinely sent by Mrs. Yang to her brother in China who, Yang had told Curtis on one occasion, had previously been deported for "being a spy". The BRAD BLOG has not yet been able to confirm the espionage charges concerning Mrs. Yang's brother.


la.indymedia.org...

Apparently, he was trying to protect their identity. That is, of course, until he submitted a sworn affadavit.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 08:33 PM
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Thanks Jamuhn, for the info...

Although...I really don't trust anything I read from indymedia, I'll take it at face value...for now ( it's allways subject to change as more info comes out )...

If this is true, we need to revamp our voting, somehow we need to make it so tight, that this can't happen again ( if indeed it did )...

This is our right as American citizens...but I'm not 100% convinced that this happened, just MHO...



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 08:48 PM
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Voting doesn't matter unless it appears to affect:

Shelter
Food
Ability for individuals to make money

Anything beyond that, and people simply don't care. So everyone who's read this article or heard about it constitute such a tiny portion of the voting body that it will never matter.

Free Press doesn't mean much to people as long as people have their needs taken care of.

Humans are animals, with a particular psychology that is well understood by the people who run the world. All thinking people like us can do is basically watch the whole thing go by and act 'sane.'



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by jsobeckyDo you understand what you are implying? DO YOU? You are implying with that statement that this program was spread over 80% of the US vote. How can you be so obtuse?

Do you know anything about computer programming? Have you ever heard of a checksum? Have you ever heard of a decompiler? Or reverse engineering?


I am a computer programmer and I do know what a checksum is, I also know what a decompiler is, and yes i've heard of reverse engineering. Throwing out those technical terms really doesn't give your argument any merit, because if you know what those things are, then you must know that THERE ARE people who are good enough to get around those obsticals.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 07:12 AM
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You also know that if you give a monkey a typewriter, sooner or later it will type out the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Saying it can be done is not the same as saying it will be done. Just think of the odds, the number of people necessary to make it happen. Didn't happen, sorry. You're just grasping at straws.




posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
- from the Carolinas to California, there were diff issues & more vehemence from sectors, but it was not for Bush.
**I keep hearing this, that so many people hated Bush that there was no way he could win a second term. Surprise, surprise.**


The real people, the real polls, all echoed this. Yet you think that the numbers wouldn't relfect this, and that's ok, no need to look here, move along? It is convenient to paint it in stark black & white arguments like you're attempting, but many simply did not Hate Bush. To take the obvious achievements, or lack there of , of someones work and then decide if you'd like to rehire them again, is void of hate. I spoke to numerous Republicans, I spoke to bible thumpers, I spoke to people who thought Reagan should be on money.....they were all saddened that he did such a poor job & that they, in good concious, could not vote their party's candidate, Bush.



- It still has come down to Republican State secretaries somehow being Republican Party Chairman or co chairs, ruling over the vote rolls ( also touched by the DIebolds & ES&S groups since they are paid to run the tabulation data even for paper ballot areas ), the certification or lack there of regarding the kiosks, and the final say in when or if a recount happens.

**Except that the votes were monitored, and the paper votes tabulated, by a bipartisan group in every state.

And once again, blame the states for spending their HAVA funds on a piece of crap.**


This is truely cognitive dissonance at it's finest! Sad for you!


So, I'm a bookie and I take your bet, but I know the team members you're betting to win were each given tranquilizers for the last 24 hours before the big game. They not only lose, but by a larger margin than expected. Was it a fair bet for you?
In that scenario, America is the wagerer, and the Republicans are the bookies.
Those state Secereataries are responsible for vendor selection at all the levels that count - even if it's the state Senate that selects out of several vendors, it's the state seceretary ( as in Ohio's case) that Selecte Diebold, ES&S and Seqoia.
THe voter rolls that the bipartisans look at - - they're already tabulated by the time that they're reviewed.
The watch over count - When all were calling it for Kerry, one Ohio district remained. That Ohio district closed the tabulation off from the bipartisan overseers claiming a Homeland Security threat that the Homeland Security Rep for the Area AND the Federalies knew knothing about.


But, I gues for you & folks like Seek, this is it in a nutshell:

Here ya go BT....
Better get any type "controversy or contest" in before 12PM tonight, buddy, or guess what? After 12pm, of the 7th, yours, and others crys, will go down in "infamy".


What a great "win" for America, right?



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
You also know that if you give a monkey a typewriter, sooner or later it will type out the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Saying it can be done is not the same as saying it will be done. Just think of the odds, the number of people necessary to make it happen. Didn't happen, sorry. You're just grasping at straws.



like your 'odds'(which, BTW, is an illuminati way of saying, 'we've stacked the deck in our favour', odds, like 11,13, and 33, for example), the typing monkey theory has never been proven.
the folks at www.blackboxvoting.org ARE proving there was voter fraud. go read the exciting exploits of bev harris as she serves her FOIA requests to mean spirited, evasive, downright deceptive, obstructive and opaque voting officials.

you guys keep claiming it would take too many people to make it happen. and yet, there are a few of you right here at ATS, cheering on the evildoers. kinda blows the 'that conspiracy theory needs too many people' argument out of the water. besides, it DOESN'T take that many people. what matters is that the people involved are all on nodes of power.

luckily, god loves you, anyway. i'll take that up with her after your kind lets me rot to death in prison for being a 'liberal'(which i'm not, but truth is irrelevent and inadmissable to you people).



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 03:13 PM
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.
Yes, Billybob,
When you tie it up with 'God' I bet a LOT of people would be willing to do just about ANYTHING.

That is the proposed reasoning for alleged hijackers flying planes into buildings isn't it?

Corrupt corporate CEOs and bible-thumpers.
Religion, makes strange bedfellows.
.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by slank

That is the proposed reasoning for alleged hijackers flying planes into buildings isn't it?

.


i've always wondered how they flew so accurately, and pulled off a hijack after tipping back booze the night before. oh well, i guess we'll just never understand 'devout muslim religious fundamentalist extremists'.

(for the more literal of you, out there, the previous message was 'loaded')



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by jsobecky
You also know that if you give a monkey a typewriter, sooner or later it will type out the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Saying it can be done is not the same as saying it will be done. Just think of the odds, the number of people necessary to make it happen. Didn't happen, sorry. You're just grasping at straws.



like your 'odds'(which, BTW, is an illuminati way of saying, 'we've stacked the deck in our favour', odds, like 11,13, and 33, for example), the typing monkey theory has never been proven.

you guys keep claiming it would take too many people to make it happen. and yet, there are a few of you right here at ATS, cheering on the evildoers. kinda blows the 'that conspiracy theory needs too many people' argument out of the water. besides, it DOESN'T take that many people. what matters is that the people involved are all on nodes of power.

Wrong. The programmer has to be involved. So does the person who writes the rigged compiler/decompiler. So does the system architect that designed the circuitry that calculates the checksum - the ALU's, GPR's shift registers, etc. And, oh, BTW, this same rigged circuitry has to be used for everything else that the system does, so how does that happen? The QA people need to be involved. The people that will be working the "invisible buttons" need to be involved. The owner of the company, the installation tech, etc., etc. And we have to pull this off in at least a dozen key states.

Yeah it's plausible alright.


Sure, there was voter fraud. ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. If you don't accept that, then you are hopelessly indoctrinated.

The problem is, you and your ilk want us to prove that it didn't happen. Well, that's not the way it works. You don't try to prove a negative. The fact is, you have to prove that it did happen. Which you have failed at miserably.

And don't come in here with statements like

you guys keep claiming it would take too many people to make it happen. and yet, there are a few of you right here at ATS, cheering on the evildoers.


I take that type of shot personally. I'm not cheering anyone on, I am merely pointing out how ridiculous your way of thinking is.


luckily, god loves you, anyway. i'll take that up with her after your kind lets me rot to death in prison for being a 'liberal'(which i'm not, but truth is irrelevent and inadmissable to you people).

Last time I'm gonna tell you about personal insults. Knock it off with the "your kind" BS.




posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

Sure, there was voter fraud. ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. If you don't accept that, then you are hopelessly indoctrinated.



You are at a conspiracy website, and you are proposing that the routines developed to remotely manipulate voting machine tabulations at select sites will follow the standard software development protocols of companies that you are familiar with?



And then you excuse fraud, by saying fraud occurs on "both sides", so remember that, because that makes fraud OK?

Your arguments are spurious and don't seem to add much weight to checking the allegations.

I remain of the opinion that the story is a red herring, and will not lead to the body of evidence on voting machine manipulation in the 2004 election. If a story like this is discredited, it can be enough for the apathetic and stupid segment of the voting populace to ignore the facts in future.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
besides, it DOESN'T take that many people. what matters is that the people involved are all on nodes of power.



Originally posted by jsobecky
Wrong. The programmer has to be involved. So does the person who writes the rigged compiler/decompiler. So does the system architect that designed the circuitry that calculates the checksum - the ALU's, GPR's shift registers, etc. And, oh, BTW, this same rigged circuitry has to be used for everything else that the system does, so how does that happen? The QA people need to be involved. The people that will be working the "invisible buttons" need to be involved. The owner of the company, the installation tech, etc., etc. And we have to pull this off in at least a dozen key states.

wow, that's at least a million people! or at least a hundred, anyway. invisible buttons in machines press themselves. i thought you said you understood programming, yet you think someone has to press a button everytime you want to muck up the results?


Originally posted by jsobeckyYeah it's plausible alright.


it's possible, alright.


Originally posted by jsobecky

Sure, there was voter fraud. ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. If you don't accept that, then you are hopelessly indoctrinated.


what exactly am i indoctrinated into? truth? justice? fair play? well, maybe you're right on this one.


Originally posted by jsobeckyThe problem is, you and your ilk want us to prove that it didn't happen. Well, that's not the way it works. You don't try to prove a negative. The fact is, you have to prove that it did happen. Which you have failed at miserably.


you said 'your ilk', .....for future reference.
well, if you'd follow the link i provided to the courageous warriors for truth at www.blackboxvoting.org, you would see that my ilk aren't failing that miserably. if a sworn affadavit is failing miserably, then your ilk is once again willfully blind to anything that doesn't fit plan. if you follow the link, you will also note that the excellent folk at blackboxvoting are skeptical about this 'whistleblower' and feel the whole media shmear is a 'bait and switch'. pump up the publicity of the case, and then 'prove' that he was lying. then all the other investigations get filed under 'conspiracy theory' by the mass mind(that idiot). certainly, bev harris and her crew are MUCH more newsworthy, and yet there is a media blackout on them.


Originally posted by jsobecky
And don't come in here with statements like

you guys keep claiming it would take too many people to make it happen. and yet, there are a few of you right here at ATS, cheering on the evildoers.


I take that type of shot personally. I'm not cheering anyone on, I am merely pointing out how ridiculous your way of thinking is.


sorry. it just looks to me like your more interested in covering up wrong doing, than uncovering it. so, to me, that is cheering for the wrong side. and, i'm glad you think my way of thinking is ridiculous, because, i can see from your posts on this board that we have cognitively little in common. i won't call your thinking ridiculous, though. i'll let my thoughts stand on their own, and you can do the same, yeah?


Originally posted by jsobeckyluckily, god loves you, anyway. i'll take that up with her after your kind lets me rot to death in prison for being a 'liberal'(which i'm not, but truth is irrelevent and inadmissable to you people).

Last time I'm gonna tell you about personal insults. Knock it off with the "your kind" BS.



ref. 'your ilk' from above. so, it wasn't a 'personal' insult. it is not even an insult. god loves you. don't worry, be happy.



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