Why Does a Florida County Need Eight $18 Million Helicopters?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Um, for someone that knows all about how the military works, how do you NOT grasp the difference between something being classified as military equipment, and being classified, as in Top Secret?

Yes they're getting military grade equipment, but they aren't getting the, just for you here, TOP SECRET gear that is on them.

How exactly are these small agencies going to afford the millions required in upkeep for these Apaches, and their classified systems? It costs the military hundreds of millions a year to train Apache pilots, and keep them current. I'm pretty sure a small police agency doesn't have that kind of money laying around, even if it's going to be cheaper for only a handful of crews.

a reply to: Zaphod58

How exactly are these small agencies going to afford the millions required in upkeep for these Apaches, and their classified systems? It costs the military hundreds of millions a year to train Apache pilots, and keep them current.

A question that I think everyone would like to see an answer to.

Well even if it's real this just broke the News

www.trust.org...

EDGARTOWN, Mass., Aug 23 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama has ordered a review of the distribution of military hardware to state and local police out of concern at how such equipment has been used during racial unrest in Ferguson, Missouri.

a reply to: Dolby_X
That's good I think... but the article says racial unrest in Ferguson, MO. I thought it was about police shooting unarmed people left and right?

EDGARTOWN, Mass., Aug 23 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama has ordered a review of the distribution of military hardware to state and local police out of concern at how such equipment has been used during racial unrest in Ferguson, Missouri.

www.trust.org...

a reply to: Zaphod58

I do have to wonder how you can't see that stripping away all classified equipment is contradictory to the statements of wanting to "militarize" LEA's.

The supposed purpose of this military equipment is to fight in "counter-drug activities". But then again you also have to look at some of the statements made by police chiefs as to why they say they need this equipment.

Veterans are being seen as a threat, as well as other Americans for believing in the U.S. Constitution, or those that do not agree with the policies of a sitting President. Yet more and more government agencies are labeling law abiding American citizens as a threat.

We have government agencies who seem to believe that the U.S. is a war zone, and as such all LEA's should be completely militarized.

Heck, did you forget this?

Barack Obama 'has authority to use drone strikes to kill Americans on US soil'

President Barack Obama has the authority to use an unmanned drone strike to kill US citizens on American soil, his attorney general has said.


By Jon Swaine, Washington

6:52PM GMT 06 Mar 2013


Eric Holder argued that using lethal military force against an American in his home country would be legal and justified in an "extraordinary circumstance" comparable to the September 11 terrorist attacks.


"The president could conceivably have no choice but to authorise the military to use such force if necessary to protect the homeland," Mr Holder said.


His statement was described as "more than frightening" by Senator Rand Paul, a Republican from Kentucky, who had demanded to know the Obama administration's position on the subject.
...

www.telegraph.co.uk...


I have nothing against police officers and know most of them are good people. But the problems with the increased violence will not be solved by militarizing the LEA's as it's been happening. More so when we get more and more reports of police officers shooting or harming unarmed people and believing they have a right to do so because the government tells them so.

I do not condone any type of violence against either our law enforcement officers, or the federal government, but I can also see that these views, and putting these labels of "possible extremists" to any American who happens to disagree with the government is also a really bad situation that will only get worse with time.

By Rowan Scarborough - The Washington Times - Thursday, January 17, 2013


A West Point think tank has issued a paper warning America about “far right” groups such as the “anti-federalist” movement, which supports “civil activism, individual freedoms and self-government.”

The report issued this week by the Combating Terrorism Center at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., is titled “Challengers from the Sidelines: Understanding America’s Violent Far-Right.”

The center — part of the institution where men and women are molded into Army officers — posted the report Tuesday. It lumps limited government activists with three movements it identifies as “a racist/white supremacy movement, an anti-federalist movement and a fundamentalist movement.”

The West Point center typically focuses reports on al Qaeda and other Islamic extremists attempting to gain power in Asia, the Middle East and Africa through violence.
...
“While liberal worldviews are future- or progressive -oriented, conservative perspectives are more past-oriented, and in general, are interested in preserving the status quo.” the report says. “The far right represents a more extreme version of conservatism, as its political vision is usually justified by the aspiration to restore or preserve values and practices that are part of the idealized historical heritage of the nation or ethnic community.”
...

www.washingtontimes.com...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Take a look at Brevard Country on Google Earth. That might answer some of your questions as to why.

The local newspaper in Brevard recently ran a story about this:

www.floridatoday.com...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Oh, I don't know, maybe because it's, you know, CLASSIFIED? Classified equipment does not military make. An F-15 minus the classifieds is still a military aircraft. An MRAP, minus the classifieds is still military. Since when is classified equipment required to make something military?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

It doesn't matter anyway. Those things spend more time in the hangar than they do in the air.

We had Apache escorts in Afghanistan that were afraid to turn off the APU during layovers in missions for fear that they wouldn't start up again.

A bit late to the party here...... 18 million for a single vehicle, are people insane? Yeah, I get it, these vehicles aren't exactly cars, but I think they are a bit over priced here. I know a guy that built his own two seater helicopter for less than it costs to buy a new car. Dude flies it everywhere, swears up and down it costs less in gas to fly it than it would to drive lol.

a reply to: TKDRL

Add armor, redundancy, sensors, weapons, fire control systems, FLIR, etc. Then see how much his helicopter goes up in cost.

a reply to: Zaphod58
The first three his has, why would police need weapons systems, fire control systems and FLIR? I thought police choppers were to be used to try and follow suspects, not blow them away.....

a reply to: TKDRL

Because the value listed is what the military paid for them. They're surplus, so the police may have paid a few thousand for them, possibly a couple hundred thousand of they're flyable.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Oh I see, so the military gets ripped off due to BS government contracts, might as well rip off everyone down the line. And of course the taxpayers pay for all the ripoffs going on, no matter if it's military, or LEO, lose lose for the tax payer. Win win for the companies selling death machines. Does this really not piss you off a bit?

a reply to: TKDRL

It's not a rip off. Just because you can build a small helicopter on the cheap doesn't mean that you can build a military grade gunship on the cheap. That cost includes R&D, development, materials, sensors, etc. Those are not cheap.

It's hardly a rip off for the police to get helicopters to part out cheap.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: Zaphod58
The first three his has, why would police need weapons systems, fire control systems and FLIR? I thought police choppers were to be used to try and follow suspects, not blow them away.....

They do not just go to police. These Cobras went to Forest services. They get the choppers after they are chopped sometimes they can fly often they are for parts to keep other equipment working. Firewatch Cobra

a reply to: TKDRL
You're asking the wrong guy that question. It's job security for him, every piece of military machinery is priced fairly.

a reply to: Mikeultra

It's not job security for me at all. And I've screamed louder than anyone about some contracts, and contract prices.

You might want to make sure you know what you're talking about before talking about someone.

a reply to: jrod

interesting article
looks like they are prepared for crowd control
why Florida so much, because of all the military bases?

a reply to: Zaphod58
"Military grade gunship", yeah I will pass on letting the cops have those. They can't even seem to have regular old guns without abusing them by shooting dogs and grandmas, not even to get into SWAT screwups of raiding the wrong house and burning babies. This is the US not isreal, I would rather the cops go without, than having to crowdsource 18 million dollar machines against our will.

a reply to: blacktie

Who knows what the police are up to, what Brevard is doing is not excessive given what other police agencies have done, especially when one considers our(Brevard) population and size. For the most part they just want to keep the peace. The goal is keeping the public and themselves safe, and there are some very bad people out there.

They fly OH-58s and do a really good job of cannibalizing military surplus parts to keep the birds flying while minimizing costs.

The AH-64s that were mentioned in the OP were not for the Sheriff's department.