"No, Thanks" Best DHS Checkpoint Refusals EVER!

"Vee haff vays ov making you talk"




Heil Das Fuhrer

a reply to: CranialSponge

Funny. I liked Hogan's Heros. My parents (who lived a little time during WWII and the aftermath) hated it.

I just saw a great set of documentaries on the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, and it is cautionary to know that human beings are capable of killing millions -- of the most brutal enslavement and torture and murder. I truly believe that no country on earth and no people on earth are incapable of being entrapped in this type of mass psychosis.

What happened in Germany in the 1930's could definitely happen here in the USA and other places in the world.

The next ten generations of humanity should be aware of that, and be cautious.

But really -- we aren't talking about Nazi extermination camps, Zyklon-B gas chambers and crematoria. We are talking about something a lot milder and more mundane here.

Pretty nice example of Godwin's law. Anyone heard of it? (Probably a lot of people here at ATS know this law well.)

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law"

I think this thread is finally over for me.

originally posted by: Axial Leader

There is something I am not clear about -- that doesn't make sense to me.

Failure to comply with a lawful order order from a Federal officer

I think the whole point is its NOT a lawful order. They just make you believe it is.

Is it wrong to fool people?

No one should comply with their demands even if it is as small as saying "yes I am a citizen". Of course complying is the easy thing to do and it is because of the people that do the easy thing that such checkpoints remain standing. I am sure many people think they have to answer that is why it is so important that each person learn what their rights are and use them.

First they were just stops where they looked at you then waved you through now they are telling you to make a declaration of your nationality next it will be show me your papers and why are you traveling. The stops are unconstitutional when you freely give up your freedoms they start taking the other ones. A true American should never give up his/her freedoms especially if it is just easier that way. People fought and died for those freedoms so many are just giving up. Makes me sick.

As far as lawful orders go the trick is they have to be "lawful". If some border agent orders you to pull up to the side they better be detaining you and say so when you ask along with their reason if they say they are not detaining you then say to them "goodbye" if they don't answer then don't move your vehicle because you don't have to.

Anyone who plans to do this should be sure of their rights and understand what a lawful order is plus you should record it. I am glad people are doing this because people should but if for no other reason than to at least make the damn agents learn the constitution because after watching all the videos many of them don't have a clue.

I live in Florida where technically my whole damn state is within a 100 miles of a border. If you give an inch they take a mile or 100.

originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: Axial Leader

There is something I am not clear about -- that doesn't make sense to me.

Failure to comply with a lawful order order from a Federal officer

I think the whole point is its NOT a lawful order. They just make you believe it is.

Is it wrong to fool people?

I wonder how many companies that act as subcontractors that work those checkpoints have association to our elected officials.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: ElOmen

Because human trafficking doesn't exist, right?
Because drug trafficking doesn't exist, right?
Because arms trafficking doesn't exist, right?

Because people don't drink or drive under dangerous intoxicants, correct?

Because everyone who steps foot in this Country has Her best interests at heart, correct?

Because no one would ever do anything illegal in this Great Nation, am I reading this clearly?

Therefore, there should be no checkpoints.....yeah.....wow....ok....gotcha.

Whatever water supply you're drinking from, I would really appreciate a bottle.

You are missing the point entirely.

Do people do illegal things? Absolutely. And, law enforcement officers have every right to stop and impede such behavior.

However, there's this pesky thing called the 4th amendment, and it protects me (and you) from illegal search and seizure. A person driving down the road does not give the police probable cause to stop them and interrogate them.

Does the officer has reasonable suspicion that there is drug/human/arms trafficking happening? By all means, make the stop. No reasonable suspicion? They do not have the right to impede progress. Period. End of story.

Here are the best two questions to be armed with:

"Am I being detained?"

"Am I free to go?"

Just because people engage in bad behavior doesn't mean that the rest of us have to give up our liberty. The fact that you are so quick to do so is a bit disconcerting.

On a side note: the first person in the video is a Pastor who was actually assaulted by police for exercising his rights. He won the case against them, and now, they do not push his buttons.

originally posted by: centhwevir1979

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: ElOmen

Because human trafficking doesn't exist, right?
Because drug trafficking doesn't exist, right?
Because arms trafficking doesn't exist, right?

The worst offenders on the grandest scale are the ones mandating the use of the checkpoints in the first place. Consider that?

Hell, yes. Magnificent point.

Bloody unnecessary. These guys were filming and intending to start something. Attention grabbing is all it is. I had to quit watching, it got painful seeing these guys act like children: "I don't wanna!"

I think we live in a police state and hate it, but this type of behavior is so childish. Just tell the pig you're a proud US citizen and that you'll be on your way. Sheesh.

originally posted by: ElOmen
a reply to: kauskau

i believe that answering that simple question affects you even at a metaphysical/spiritual level. you are attatching yourself to something an idea created by man. Thats just what my head tells me.

This.

It affects me so much so , that I am in the habit of imposing myself upon them, when they are doing stupid things, as a whole.

It amuses me to no end how they melt from the fear and power they have, when confronted by a superior force of sheer willpower, and they themselves can actually ask, what exactly are we doing here ??

Those who follow systems , in the end really do not know where or how the orders are filed to them, they just blindly follow, it is a new form of the same religion, control all, and make it look like it is THERE OWN CHOICE.

I choose to change those I see, doing and reacting wrongly, and praise them and uplift when they actually recognize how silly the job they are doing is.

They should really be focusing on the cause of the problems, the failed systems they are upholding, and stop getting caught in the middle., abit much but doable methinks.

dictionary.reference.com...
Citizen
1.
a native or naturalized member of a state or nation who owes allegiance to its government and is entitled to its protection (distinguished from alien ).
2.
an inhabitant of a city or town, especially one entitled to its privileges or franchises.

theyre basically asking you " do you belong to the u.s government?"

From Wiki;

Internal checkpoints have also been criticized for violating the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution which prohibits "unreasonable searches and seizures", although The United States v. Martinez-Fuerte has affirmed their constitutionality.

The U.S. Border Patrol has stated: "although motorists are not legally required to answer the questions ‘are you a U.S. citizen and where are you headed,’ they will not be allowed to proceed until the inspecting agent is satisfied that the occupants of vehicles traveling through the checkpoint are legally present in the U.S."

The stops are Constitutional, the 100 mile zone is Constitutional. Pulling you off to the side is Constitutional. They can ask those questions, that's Constituional. You don't have to answer, but all it does is to take you longer to get through. And wouldn't it be a surprise if they decided they needed a little extra documentation to show you're legally present? Maybe a half hour worth of checking?

No point is being made here. No great victory for freedom.

originally posted by: jimmyx
please someone try this now in 2014....and tell us how it turned out....actually the LEO's in the video seemed to be fairly mild-mannered...I wonder if he was a black or brown guy driving a crappy car, he would have been treated the same way.

Both of your thought's sat on my mind the first time is aw this video last year.

None of these cops were particularly mean dickish or anything, they are were just thoroughly programmed dolts; you can see some them struggle to repeat their instructed dialogues of authority when they are confronted with a law knowing individual.

Then i thought "i wonder if they will tolerate this uppityness if it's coming from me or other people my color!?"

I then imagine me tossed out of my wheelchair, face down on the floor, rifle to my head.

Just going to warn you guys now, i am a part time police officer and i do it mainly to help out my community since we are so under manned now.


Do NOT ever try to avoid a road block, which is illegal. Do not EVER try to out smart the officer and ask for a Probable Cause. You'll just agitate him.


Road blocks are 100% legal. We do NOT need Probable Cause to ask you for a drivers license at a road block. If an officer asks you to roll your window all the way down so he can hear you, roll the window all the way down. Why? Because he can charge you for defying a lawful command of an officer if you do not. If you refuse to roll down the window to the vehicle, he can pull you out of the vehicle, search you, and the vehicle for obstructing the duties of a police officer. It's up to him if he wants to take you to jail on defying commands and dealing with the paper work. He can also ask you to step out of the vehicle at any point for his safety if you have tinted windows, if he cannot hear you, see your hands, have multiple people in the vehicle, and fidgeting.

If a Police Officer asks you for an I.D you MUST provide an I.D. It doesn't matter if it's a DL or not. We can run your name and DOB and see if you have valid driver's license or any 29s. You can be taken to jail, and your vehicle towed for not having a drivers license on your person if the officer wanted to be mean.

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Just so you guys know, too. If you see a police officer flying by you, we are most likely on a call. We can only run code to certain calls. So, if you see us come flying by you at a high rate of speed, we are most likely going to a 47, 44, things like that. Where it's a situation that can get out of hand quickly, but not warranted to run red lights and stop signs.

We are permitted, while on calls, to exceed posted speed limits, according to state statutes. When we are running code, we are permitted to do almost any thing necessary, as safely as possible, to intercept, get to, or stop someone, and this is permitted according to state statutes.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

When did checkpoints start? I lived in Texas in the 60's and I don't remember checkpoints. IDK, it does not feel right to sacrifice one of your freedoms for criminals.

a reply to: MOMof3

You aren't sacrificing a freedom. Driving on state highways, roads, streets are a privilege, not a right. That's what most people don't understand / forget.

a reply to: Axial Leader

I think the point that they're attempting to make is that, even if it's a law, it's a law that goes against a higher law: The Constitution. But like I stated, I don't think that the question is unreasonable to ask, and I do think that it's unreasonable to avoid answering as if to prove a point.

These videos they take are becomming a bit like political correctness--even those fully in their legal right to ask simple questions and get an answer are becoming afraid of overstepping some fabricated line just because they're on camera. They need to fully understand their authority and use it. If someone feels that authority is unconstitutional, take them to court and challenge that authority. But, you don't piss and moan and pretend to school America on the 4th Amendment when asking a simple question does not even approach the realm of unreasonable search.

Also, if one is an American citizen, pleading the 5th Amendment doesn't work because the honest answer would not be incriminating in any way, they're just hiding behind some Hollywood-movie defense that wouldn't fly against an intelligent agent. Actually, it makes the individual look quite ignorant and silly. The more I think about it, the more these people are actually pissing me off. They're the Sandra Fluke of the Fourth Amendment.

a reply to: milkyway12

I'm one of the few who fully understand much of this, but I'm sorry--cop or not, if I feel a police officer is trying to do an illegal search of me or my vehicle, I'm going to ask for probable cause and I'm not going to consent to the search without it.

I have more than one LEO friend, so I fully respect them and what they do (hell, I used to want to be a CHP in California all the way up through high school, but then joined the Army). BUT, that does not mean that I or any other citizen needs to allow an LEO to walk all over our rights just so that we don't agitate the LEO. No offense, but I have proven the fact more than once that I can outsmart my LEO friends concerning local laws, so the statment

Do not EVER try to out smart the officer and ask for a Probable Cause. You'll just agitate him.

is tantamount to telling us to just accept whatever treatment the officer gives us, regardless of authority to do so, just because he/she is an LEO and we might make him/her upset by asserting knowledge. We don't need to, nor should we be expected to, just bend over and say, "Yes, sir," when "ordered" to do something.

Take that as you will, but any LEO who is honest will tell you that they don't know every applicable law for their jurisdiction. Hell, you should be telling us to learn them and try to outsmart an officer--if the officer is intelligent, they'll either have a proper, calm response and either learn or teach, or they'll act like a bully and get agitated. But, don't tell us to avoid asserting our own authority as citizens of the US just to avoid making an LEO angry...that makes us citizens angry, and that's what leads to crap like Ferguson, MO.

I understand the whole rights issue, But if the only question is, are you an American citizen ? And a simple yes gets you on your way, no biggie. BUT, if after they want to ask more questions or make you pull over, then I understand. To me it's common sense. I was just talking to somebody that came back from Europe and there is no border between countries over there anymore, except Switzerland. And even in Switzerland you might just get waved through, if you have a resident plate from a nearby country. But the border stations are abandoned buildings or have been torn down. Is America less free than Europe now?

How is this resisting tyranny? All the blokes are doing is trying to stop immigrants entering the country. What is the harm is in simply saying "yes, I am a US citizen"? Personally, I think the people recording are just being arseholes towards people trying to do their job. I could understand if it was the police being OTT with their authority, but this? Nah.

originally posted by: coastlinekid
a reply to: VoidHawk

You are trying to explain to a sheep that he is a sheep... most sheep don't know they are sheep ...that is what makes them sheep...

The one sheep I used to talk to thought he was a Shepard.... So I decided to raise goats instead.

Sheeple should become.... Goats, a smart creature that will do what it wants and play games all the time tried to get Mr. Goat back into his goat house and he ran around for 2 hours.

But in all honesty Border checks are good.... I don't see why there needs to be border checks inside... which I guess would be Interior Checks ( Non Cavernous though )... and thats what happens in the airport in the big circular tube machine that should release money on the 1000th entrant. < Ironically they could save on X-Ray's with this method, Break an Arm, Take a flight.

Rambling for the day, semi complete.