Scottish Independance & Possible Huge Oil Discovery

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
And who's to say the EU wont hold a vote to Kick what's left of the UK to the curb if Scotland Gains it's independence, after all the UK's economy will take a serious battering if we bugger off.

See, that argument (little threat) works both ways. maybe even kick the UK from NATO unless London finds a place to Store it's WMD's.

Oh now i know why they are Bricking it if we go. lol

And you accuse the " No Campaign" of using scare tactics.
People who live in glass houses etc etc

All things being equal, Prove me wrong that this cant happen. The fact is the EU and NATO could go down this route if they choose. I dont believe they would as it would weaken them even further, but they could and i've never seen this "FACT" being reported on by the BBC or MSM....ever wonder why. ? Because it doesn't suit their agenda.

Let me give you a "fact ".
Behind Germany the U.K. is the largest nett contributor to the E.U. budget.
If you think the E.U. would want to "kick out " what remains of The U.K. you must be living in cloud cuckoo land.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: alldaylong
Here's what you actually said.

If Scotland wins independence then The Scots had better start building some new houses. There is a nett balance off 400,000 Scots living in England that would have no right to remain here

Sounds like a threat to me.

Obviously your mind works differently from most. That's your problem not mine.

My mind deals with actual facts.

You decided which is the real issue.

The only "fact" you stated was that there are 400,000 Scots living in England. The rest is wishful thinking and more scary stories for the Gullible to suck up in horror...sorry, doesn't work with me.
An Independent Scotland will be a far healthier and financially wealthy nation like never before seen...That's a Fact!

Any Scots living in the rest of the UK would be perfectly entitled to remain here, as is right - in fact the majority of them are seriously pissed off that they have been denied the opportunity to vote in the referendum - I wonder why that is? Nothing to do with the likelihood that it would be 800,000 people who would vote to remain in the UK?

As for the oil deposits - how much of it lies near The Shetlands and the Northern Islands?
As many are aware, there is a growing movement for independence within the region if Scotland votes for its own independence - the islanders feel as alienated from Holyrood as they do from Westminster.
I'm sure the Nats will respect their Right to Self-Determination just as the UK has respected Scotland's.

An independent Scotland will never use Sterling - the rest of the UK would be in uproar if it happened.
And why would an independent Scotland want to be reliant on a currency it has absolutely no say or control over?
That's not 'independence' as far as I can see.

Scotland will do as Scotland see's fit - again, as is right.
But one thing is certain - if they vote to go their own way there are going to some difficult times ahead.

I've resisted the temptation to comment on the subject for the last couple of months or so but after listening and reading most of what has been said and written there seems to be one inescapable truth - there is so much bollocks being spouted from both sides. None of the politicians, 'experts' and others with vested interests are telling the truth - they are all portraying their particular 'visions', plans or hopes for a future Scotland in such a biased and idyllic manner that it is truly nauseating. Are people actually falling for this outright nonsense?

I listen to some in the 'Yes' camp and they truly believe that an independent Scotland will be some sort of paradise free from the ills and problems that beset the rest of the UK, Europe and the world in general.
There's a naivety there that I'm truly amazed anyone in this day and age can show.
And then there's all the Braveheart rubbish and 'freedom from English oppression' idiocy - ignorance beyond belief!!

And then there's those in the 'No' campaign who believe that an independent Scotland will be totally incapable of managing even the most basic and simplest of tasks and that they will be devoid of resource and ability.
They peddle the myth that Scotland has nothing to offer without the rest of the UK.

Its all absolute bollocks.

If I was a Scotsman I'd be screaming out for someone, anyone, just to frigging tell it as it is without all the nonsense, just the plain and simple facts without any added propaganda.

For reasons I won't go into here I hope Scotland votes to remain in the UK - but if it votes for independence then at least be independent and not reliant on other currencies and the same old establishment that has blighted the whole of the UK for far too long.
And have the balls and clarity to go into it with your eyes open wide about the realities of what lies ahead and don't believe the romantic bollocks that some are trying to force feed you.

Apologies for the rant like nature - its been a difficult few weeks.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: alldaylong
Here's what you actually said.

If Scotland wins independence then The Scots had better start building some new houses. There is a nett balance off 400,000 Scots living in England that would have no right to remain here

Sounds like a threat to me.

Obviously your mind works differently from most. That's your problem not mine.

My mind deals with actual facts.

You decided which is the real issue.

The only "fact" you stated was that there are 400,000 Scots living in England. The rest is wishful thinking and more scary stories for the Gullible to suck up in horror...sorry, doesn't work with me.
An Independent Scotland will be a far healthier and financially wealthy nation like never before seen...That's a Fact!

Wishful thinking?

That's your opinion. I have my own which carries more weight.
Why is that? Scottish born residents living in England would be foreign nationals. Or am i lying ?

a reply to: alldaylong
I'm merely countering your pish with some pish of my own..as i said...All things being equal.


you try and scare us with pish as the No campaign has since day one, we will counter your attack with little facts on what a post Scotland UK might have to deal with. Little Facts that they dont want anyone to know about.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: alldaylong
I'm merely countering your pish with some pish of my own..as i said...All things being equal.


you try and scare us with pish as the No campaign has since day one, we will counter your attack with little facts on what a post Scotland UK might have to deal with. Little Facts that they dont want anyone to know about.

Did you have a problem with answering my question?

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: alldaylong
Here's what you actually said.

If Scotland wins independence then The Scots had better start building some new houses. There is a nett balance off 400,000 Scots living in England that would have no right to remain here

Sounds like a threat to me.

Obviously your mind works differently from most. That's your problem not mine.

My mind deals with actual facts.

You decided which is the real issue.

The only "fact" you stated was that there are 400,000 Scots living in England. The rest is wishful thinking and more scary stories for the Gullible to suck up in horror...sorry, doesn't work with me.
An Independent Scotland will be a far healthier and financially wealthy nation like never before seen...That's a Fact!

Wishful thinking?

That's your opinion. I have my own which carries more weight.
Why is that? Scottish born residents living in England would be foreign nationals. Or am i lying ?

I really dont care if they are classed as foreign nationals, but you are correct, technically they will be foreign nationals for a short period of time....But go ahead, try and kick them out....The EU Dares you....
if those Scots living in England, NI and Wales want to remain there, then i dont see any sane Government trying to remove them as they would just have another 400,000 refugees to deal with on top of all the rest who clog up the system for years and years with appeal after appeal....Just more Boogy Man Tales from you i'm afraid. Woooooooooooo.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: alldaylong
I'm merely countering your pish with some pish of my own..as i said...All things being equal.


you try and scare us with pish as the No campaign has since day one, we will counter your attack with little facts on what a post Scotland UK might have to deal with. Little Facts that they dont want anyone to know about.

Did you have a problem with answering my question?

No i didn't have a problem answering your question, but i do have a problem with burning the tea just to make you happy.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Your post is nonsense from start to finish. To point out just one there is no campaign for the shetlands to be independent, this is a myth started by the house of lords.

A cursory review of a variety of sources exposes your dismissal of what I said as a lie.

www.heraldscotland.com...

www.theguardian.com...

uk.reuters.com...

If the majority of people living in Scotland vote for independence then the Isles should be allowed to vote to leave Scotland. That's appropriate. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. An independent Scotland with no oil would be impoverished.

Regards

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: alldaylong
Here's what you actually said.

If Scotland wins independence then The Scots had better start building some new houses. There is a nett balance off 400,000 Scots living in England that would have no right to remain here

Sounds like a threat to me.

Obviously your mind works differently from most. That's your problem not mine.

My mind deals with actual facts.

You decided which is the real issue.

The only "fact" you stated was that there are 400,000 Scots living in England. The rest is wishful thinking and more scary stories for the Gullible to suck up in horror...sorry, doesn't work with me.
An Independent Scotland will be a far healthier and financially wealthy nation like never before seen...That's a Fact!

Wishful thinking?

That's your opinion. I have my own which carries more weight.
Why is that? Scottish born residents living in England would be foreign nationals. Or am i lying ?

I really dont care if they are classed as foreign nationals, but you are correct, technically they will be foreign nationals for a short period of time....But go ahead, try and kick them out....The EU Dares you....
if those Scots living in England, NI and Wales want to remain there, then i dont see any sane Government trying to remove them as they would just have another 400,000 refugees to deal with on top of all the rest who clog up the system for years and years with appeal after appeal....Just more Boogy Man Tales from you i'm afraid. Woooooooooooo.

You don't understand the politics of the real word.
If The U.K. made a special case for Scots born nationals to remain in the U.K. then the floodgates would be opened for other groups of foreign nationals to stay in The U.K. If the government refused them, then there would be one hell of a line of people applying to The European Court Of Justice saying their Human Rights had been violated. You can't make a special case for one group ethnic people.
Even you know that.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

As I said in my previous post - they won't be 'kicked out' and will be perfectly entitled and welcome to stay in the rest of the UK.

More to the point - why did Scotland disown them and prohibit them from voting in a referendum about the future of their country of birth?

And there's 800,000 people of Scottish birth residing in other parts of the UK.
There are 400,000 people who were born in other parts of the UK currently living in Scotland.

Funny, we had a Scottish independence thread posted on the 31 July and it never made 2 full pages. here

Start a new thread and mention Scottish Independence and the subject of Oil and we go 4 pages in a couple of hours. I wonder why that is, I believe the brown stuff is running down a few trouser legs doon south... Hmmmm???


Yoy want Oil, we have Oil,
You want Whisky, we have whisky.
You want Fresh Water, as much fresh water as you can handle, we have loads of the stuff.
You want Tractor beams...hey, we will even knock one of those up for you. Jock Tractor Beam

we will do ok after the breakaway. we are quite a resilient peoples.

a reply to: Freeborn
We gave the vote to anyone over the age of 16 regardless of country of origin. kinda balances itself out dont you think. if they decide to come back after Scotland becomes independent then they will be more than welcome. my guess is most of them will be quite happy to remain where they have made their homes.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

We gave the vote to anyone over the age of 16 regardless of country of origin. kinda balances itself out dont you think.

No, not really.
Personally I don't think the majority of 16 years olds are informed and qualified enough to vote on a matter of such importance.......but then again neither are most 36 year olds as well!

800,000 Scots living outside Scotland but in the UK.
400,000 born in other areas of the UK living in Scotland.

A clear deficit of 400,000 - or about 7.5% of the electorate.
That could be very important in a close vote.

if they decide to come back after Scotland becomes independent then they will be more than welcome.

I'm sure they will - I would expect nothing else.

my guess is most of them will be quite happy to remain where they have made their homes.

I have a lot of Scottish friends, both in Scotland and here in England.
Of those I have spoken to about this to a man they have all expressed their intent to remain where they currently live.

Those who live in England who I have asked how they would have voted given the chance have all barring one said they would vote to remain in the UK and with the Devo Max being their preferred option of choice.

Like an increasing number of people from outside of London and the Home Counties I personally wish to see increased devolution to all the regions of the UK - alas that's not an option.....yet.

a reply to: Soloprotocol
I would fight immigration officers turning up in my corner of SW England who tried to forcibly deport my Scottish mates who didn't want to leave after building a life here. They're my mates, what does their home nation breaking free stop them being my mates then? The idea is ridiculous and straw-snatching fearmongering.

*Edit*
...the idea of Alldaylong that Scots born people being kicked out is ridiculous, and I will resist that as much as I imagine all rational Scots, Welsh, English, and Northern Irish folk will be resisting as well. No government is going to try and dare run with kicking Scots out like illegal immigrants...ridiculous.

David Cameron is up in the Shetlands fueling the Shetland spring.

originally posted by: midicon

David Cameron is up in the Shetlands fueling the Shetland spring.

lol
Ps, they dont have a spring up in the Shetlands, just one continuous horizontal wind and rain season.

a reply to: grainofsand

Exactly - it will be similar to the arrangement given to the Irish, I should imagine. No one is going to boot out the Scots, if anything, come independence, we may be welcoming a few thousand into Portsmouth who've just lost their jobs on the Clyde...

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: grainofsand

Exactly - it will be similar to the arrangement given to the Irish, I should imagine. No one is going to boot out the Scots, if anything, come independence, we may be welcoming a few thousand into Portsmouth who've just lost their jobs on the Clyde...

Maybe just maybe once we get rid of the subs we can then start the drilling process on the Clyde bringing more work than ever before to the yards on the Clyde.. Oil on the clyde

a reply to: Freeborn

There is no current defined Scottish citizenship. Right to vote could only over be based on residence.