Scottish Independance & Possible Huge Oil Discovery

Well I'm from Yorkshire (England for our non UK readers) but live in Scotland. I will be voting Yes although not a 100% convinced Yes.

The biggest Yes issues are twofold . The first is to seperate ourselves from the idiotic ideological policies of the Tories that pamper to rich people and big business. Lib dems have nailed their colours to that cross quite cleary. Labour is too scared to stand by its original core beliefs in case it loses that "middle" vote so that it ends up being no different in practice. The middle vote consists of non thinking people who see a fat cat stand there complaining about taxes (but has accountants to let him avoid paying his fair share) so governments manipulate policy to appease these greedy people and institutions. No balls to tell them to f-off.

The second big Yes is the NHS. It is absolutely jaw dropping the amount of privatisation that has occurred and nobody is complaining in England and Wales. The blood plasma unit sold off whilst everyone was distracted from the birth of Prince William. Now the NHS has to buy its blood plasma (that it previously owned) from an AMERICAN private equity firm called Bain Capital. Un fricking believable!!!!. Next we have the hiking off of the control of GP funds to buy health care for their patients to AMERICAN PRIVATE HEALTH COMPANIES because DUH!!! the GP's are too busy to do this DUH!!! (look up "Unitedhealth" and "Commissioning Support Industry Group" if you don't believe me)

Next step absolutely guaranteed : In order to be "efficient" it would be better for all National Insurance to be directed directly to the health insurance companies. Then we will have a US private health system run by US private health companies. You could not make that up 10 years ago!

This is already happening and it will continue to happen in England and Wales. If Scotland votes No the powers that allow the Scottish NHS to be managed differently will mysteriously disappear. Tell me No voters has there been any mention of increased control over the NHS should we vote NO or is that subject completely silent. Hmmmmm I wonder why!

On the NO side. My main concern is the currency. No country can truly be independent if it does not have control over it's currency. This means a central bank. Even with a currency union there is influence, 8% at present based on population or taxes or spending, over fiscal policy AND we currently have freedom within those constraints to vary some taxes and spending. A currency union with the EU dilutes the influence to about 1%, not good. Using a currency without a central bank i.e. you simply use the notes much like countries around the world do with the dollar, means you have no control over your fiscal policy. You will have to keep taxes, spending etc etc in line with the country whose currency you are using otherwise rampant inflation kicks in. This is WORSE than the current situation !!!!!!!

NB to all those who come up with this nonsense about not taking on our share of the national debt. How will a Scottish government borrow money on the open markets (as all governments do) for infrastructure spending from "banks/institutions" if it does not pay its debts hmmmm? What lunatic bank(s) would be the lender?

So there we have it 70% Yes 30% No but with the chance to try things differently if we do vote Yes.

Ok can this go in the HOAX bin yet?

Tbh, as I said before I really don't care what Scotland decides it is up to them, but the outcome isn't great for Scotland, or the rest of the UK all will suffer, reading from a totally unbiased view point Scotland is on its way down hill and fast immediately after a yes vote

What's most worrying is the possible civil war and violence and rioting which will enviably break out onto the streets whether it is a yes or NO vote from Scotland

Scotland is clearly divided and tensions are rising and bubbling over the nationalist have already proven that they're hate filled and violent, we will also likely see the Shetlands and Orkney isles break away from Scotland in a separate referendum taking even more dwindling resources away from Scotland which are not enough to foot the bills or repay the debt Scotland will have from the beginning

Scotland will likely end up as a full EU member answering to Brussels, or Scotland will either have to accept that they're a small insignificant Small country with a similar GDP of Romania

There is one problem that is going to hit Scotland hard if it decides to break away from the UK, and become its own country. And that is currency. Its finances are intertwined with England, it relies on the pound. If it were to break away from England, it will first have to figure out its own currency, how to divide the assets up and ultimately have its own currency. If it does not and still relies on the British pound, then it is going to be subject to the will and whims of a far worse group than those in the British Parliment, and that is the bankers.

And according to the EU, if it does break away, it will have to apply and go by the same rules as the rest of the countries in the EU, including having its own currency. The EU rules are very clear, it can not use the British pound for a currency and be in the EU. And then there is the economic side of the house, that is going to dictate if it can survive without its neighbor.

It is easy to see how rigged this election is, only local scotish people can vote, not those living in England/Wales/Northern Ireland/elsewhere can even though they have a say in it, as can other elections around the world ex-pats can vote.

I wonder how many have or will get British Passports, so they can be Dual nationality in Scotland. Hypocracy right there, otherwise all those Scotish people will have to apply for EU Residence permits as a NON-EU citizen. That is not easy nor quick and comes with strict conditions and times and taxation.

You can be sure British passport applications from Scotish people will explode if they have not already.

Also, what about non Scotish residence in the EU or elsewhere, they have to get visas for travel, there goes your turist shoppers from Northern Ireland, Wales and England and day trippers to shop at places.

What about British ex-pats, now they have to reapply for residence permits and tax nightmare to stay in Scotland.

Either way I look at this, it is NOT WELL THOUGHT OUT for the LONG TERM, not even the short term.

One thing for sure, I hope they do go Seperate, it will be COMEDY GOLD to watch the mess.

You WILL NOT be in EU, Spain and Italy and Turkey will block that for sure. It sets a BAD statement to their regions that want to seperate and they don't want that. You will not get in the EU before Turkey They have waited decades so far and are still waiting. Hell Ukraine will get in before Scotland lol.

a reply to: TritonTaranis

We have heard all the fear mongering and positive spin. None of it so far has addressed your unbiased views. No one has envisaged civil war just yet...

The better together together campaigners have not implied that Scotland will go downhill fast. In fact they agree that an independent Scotland can make a fist of it.

Regarding the Shetland Isles and Orkney, that is an entirely different affair. Just because Scotland leaves the Union it does not somehow lose it's soveriegnty as a nation.

We might end up a full EU member just like you...who can say? I am happy to be part of a small country significant or not.

I live in Glasgow and haven't seen any violence or hate.

Lastly...if you think this thread should be in the hoax bin why are you participating?

originally posted by: TritonTaranis
Ok can this go in the HOAX bin yet?

Tbh, as I said before I really don't care what Scotland decides it is up to them, but the outcome isn't great for Scotland, or the rest of the UK all will suffer, reading from a totally unbiased view point Scotland is on its way down hill and fast immediately after a yes vote

What's most worrying is the possible civil war and violence and rioting which will enviably break out onto the streets whether it is a yes or NO vote from Scotland

Scotland is clearly divided and tensions are rising and bubbling over the nationalist have already proven that they're hate filled and violent, we will also likely see the Shetlands and Orkney isles break away from Scotland in a separate referendum taking even more dwindling resources away from Scotland which are not enough to foot the bills or repay the debt Scotland will have from the beginning

Scotland will likely end up as a full EU member answering to Brussels, or Scotland will either have to accept that they're a small insignificant Small country with a similar GDP of Romania

We're Doomed...Doomed i tell ye.
Show me where the Nationalists have proven that they are hate filled and Violent. are we talking about the Great Egg incident of 2014. or you have some other Atrocity that we dont know about.

As for the Orkneys and Shetlands Breaking away, as much chance of that as we a Have East Kilbride or Uddingston breaking away...Hell, maybe Hemel Hemstead or Bognor Regis will want to break away from London...Makes as much sense as your theory on the Shetlands etc.
And just what resources can the Shetlands Take..Oil??..Gas?? for your information even if the shetland et al did decide on a Referendum to become independent, international maritime law would consider them to be what are known as "Enclaves" as their Territory would be entirely within that of Scotland.
That would mean that they would have a maximum of a 12 mile radius of ocean from their shores...guess what...No Oil anywhere near it.

As for Civil War, says more about either your lack of knowledge about the Scottish People or you really believe we are backwoods blood thirsty savages up here.

When/If we move to Independence nothing much will change for a decade, we will continue to use the pound. We will still watch the BBC, the Queen will still be a Figure Head, until if and When we decide we dont want/need them anymore...(Still waiting on these Paedophile charges being brought out into the open and it wont surprise me at all if a royal or two aint on the hit list)

And onto your statement.."reading from a totally unbiased view point"... Aye right yar Son.

In July this year Professor Sir Donald Mackay, Economic advisor to the UK government for 25 years said. "official forecasts by Oil and Gas UK suggest an independent Scotland Oil and Gas revenues in 2017-2019 would be almost £32 billion ..

We will have any debt we owe wiped out in jig time if we choose to do that. What's London gonna do, What's Westminsters Plan B..?
Similar to Romania.... lol

Trust me, it's London's turn to go Cap in Hand...This time, to us....Away and Bile yer Heid Man.

a reply to: jajaja

I don't think it will be comedy gold. In reality whatever we do can only be an improvement on the existing state of affairs. It may be that we will choose a better direction for our people.

Passports applications won't explode...that's just silly talk. The EU will drag us in although I would prefer a referendum on that.

I don't think they have rigged the election.

Why not just wish us well either way?

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: jajaja

I don't think it will be comedy gold. In reality whatever we do can only be an improvement on the existing state of affairs. It may be that we will choose a better direction for our people.

Passports applications won't explode...that's just silly talk. The EU will drag us in although I would prefer a referendum on that.

I don't think they have rigged the election.

Why not just wish us well either way?

I can't wait to see people's O faces

So far all the issues I have raised and there are more than what I listed, have NOT been answered by any of the people running the show.

Either way; i am very sure I won't be disappointed in the entertainment that follows.

originally posted by: jajaja

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: jajaja

I can't wait to see people's O faces

So far all the issues I have raised and there are more than what I listed, have NOT been answered by any of the people running the show.

please list your issues, Maybe i can point you in the right direction. Most issues have been covered in the white paper or by Leading academics. it's just that the Biased Media hide them so well.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: jajaja

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: jajaja

I can't wait to see people's O faces

So far all the issues I have raised and there are more than what I listed, have NOT been answered by any of the people running the show.

please list your issues, Maybe i can point you in the right direction. Most issues have been covered in the white paper or by Leading academics. it's just that the Biased Media hide them so well.

I already listed some of them, you should read it more carefully.


Leading academics, well, can you show me the agreements the local government of Scotland (devolved) have made and with whom addressing them? Seems to me they have made no to little agreements with the UK and Commonwealth, the EU et al. That is who they should be making agreements with. Not with newspapers, not with speeches, not with academics.

I am all happy to let Scotland do their own thing, but it is badly thought out, it will not end well and not be very comfortable for many people there and elsewhere why? Because it is NOT THOUGHT OUT IN DEPTH.

originally posted by: jajaja

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: jajaja

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: jajaja

I can't wait to see people's O faces

So far all the issues I have raised and there are more than what I listed, have NOT been answered by any of the people running the show.

please list your issues, Maybe i can point you in the right direction. Most issues have been covered in the white paper or by Leading academics. it's just that the Biased Media hide them so well.

I already listed some of them, you should read it more carefully.

Even though you are being rude i'll answer as best i can..
you said, "Only Local "Scotish" People can vote"...Well that's a Myth for starters...
English, Irish, Pakistani, Chinese, American, Australian, Brasilian, Vietnamese, Russian, Inuits ...etc etc...you get the gist, can vote if they live in Scotland..it couldn't be any fairer if we tried...
Why the hell would we give Anyone who doesn't live here a vote. in fact, lets just open the vote up to the whole bloody World and let everyone and their dog have a say on Scotland's decision.

originally posted by: yorkshirelad


The second big Yes is the NHS. It is absolutely jaw dropping the amount of privatisation that has occurred and nobody is complaining in England and Wales.

Without bringing any politics into this because I don't think one party can claim to be holier than thou and that includes both the SNP and the Labour party in Wales, the use of private companies within the NHS over the UK currently accounts for 6% of the overall budget, up 1% from 2010. Does that really make your jaw drop? I'm not asking for a pro/anti any party or why it's thought that the figure would decrease in the event of a Yes campaign, but do you really think that is a jaw dropping increase?

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
in fact, lets just open the vote up to the whole bloody World and let everyone and their dog have a say on Scotland's decision.

That made me chuckle.
A Scottish friend of mine in England was complaining that he hasn't got the vote and over a year ago I'd said to him that all he had to do was register at his mam's house and pay the 25% single person council tax discount she'd lose with him being registered as living there - he didn't do it so I told him to quit his bitching.

If there was ever any major vote in Wales for something that may or may not be of benefit to me I'll be registering back at my mams house straight away and covering the 25% discount she'd lose with me being registered there. It was not difficult for anyone with family in Scotland to get the vote, and I know a few people who did exactly that. It would be interesting to know how many did.

a reply to: jajaja
on the subject of the EU..
From Grahan Avery, the honorary director General of the European commission and senior policy advisor at the European Policy centre in Brussels with 4 decades experience in negotiating Eu enlargement (including the UK's own entry) told the UK Parliament in 2012.

"From a political point of view Scotland has been in the EU for 40 years,and it's people have acquired rights as European Citizenz, if they wish to remain in the Eu, they could hardly be asked to leave and reapply for membership in the same way as non member states such as Turkey. The point can be illustrated by considering another example: if a break up Belgium were agreed between Wallonia and Flanders, it is totally inconceivable that other EU members would require 11 million people to leave the Eu and then reapply for membership".

He also told Holyrood's European committee.

"A situation where Scotland was outside the European Union and not Applying European rules would be a legal nightmare for the rest of the UK and the British Government has to take that into account, I think that it would be Very, Very Unfortunate for the United Kingdom if Scotland was not a member from Day one"

You know, The majority of People on this site are here because of a deep mistrust of TPTB, they dont trust them, in fact a lot hate them and i include myself in that category.
We in Scotland have a chance to start something here, something big, something that might just be the beginning of a beautiful revolution in the western World, but we appear to still have a lot of people here against us Scots.
While most are just moaning about it all, at the very least we are trying to do something about the corruption, the lies, the War mongering for profit, the Low wages, the Zero hours contracts, the child poverty, the division between the rich and poor. etc, etc.

I dont get it. Give us a chance and we'll show you all how it can be done...Are we a Nation?...To bloody right we are. and one that has set the bar higher than most on the World stage.

As a Welshman living in England I just shouted "Go on Scotland!" in the kitchen with the football on the radio.
Regardless of the vote I will always have more in common with Scotland than Germany.
...now go on Scotland, pull it off over Germany!!!


*Edit*
Go on Scotland!!!! 1-1 loving it!!!


...unlucky but good effort, pity about the ref.

a reply to: uncommitted
Figure is around 6% (and rising) for the UK, still under 1% in Scotland.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Well, I work in the NHS and I can tell you that the private sector does some things far better than the public sector. Also, most GPs are not NHS, although most people would not recognise that fact. Things like the private finance initiative (PPI) has been a disaster for some hospitals, primarily due to the inability of senior staff to read the small print and understand the consequences.

Oh, and Hinchingbrooke Healtcare NHS Trust, an NHS owned private hospital seems to be doing well. NHS staff and a private management.

At the end of the day, it's the patients that count and if a private pathology department can turn around a sample in a day and the in-house team take (ahem) a week, then who do you think the patient would like the sample to go to?

Regards

a reply to: paraphi
Only the NHS effectively subsidises private health care by covering all the non profitable areas of health care.
Not completely against private medicine however we need to be realistic about what it does do well and why.

I know a guy in America who was in a car crash with his son...His sons bill is sitting at $8 Million so far and that's not even a year past. That's $8 Million a insurance company has to pay for one child that at the end of the day we all have to pay for.
Yeah, sounds like privatisation is the way to go.