Scottish Independance & Possible Huge Oil Discovery

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol

You fail to mention that Galloway is currently touring the country on his 'Just say Naw' tour and is fiercely anti-Yes and that his tour had been temporarily suspended due to 'co-ordinated abuse' from Yes voters.

Just hours before Friday night’s attack, Galloway had posted a tweet after Labour MP Jim Murphy temporarily suspended his UK campaign tour claiming “co-ordinated abuse” from Yes voters.

I agree, his beating from a pro-Israeli nut job had nothing to do with the independence debate, but the abuse he has suffered and the possible suspension of his tour most certainly does.

I wonder if you would have been as equally indignant if he'd been in favour of independence?

For the record; I think George Galloway is a complete knob and disagree with a hell of a lot of what he has to say, but I admire his strength of conviction and support his right to voice his opinions.

Do you also support his right to voice his opinion that 'no doesn't always really mean no' and that some women who claim they have been raped actually gave consent by saying no? He said this in one of his weird broadcasts, I'll try and find a link but it was well publicised at the time and a recording of him actually saying it was available.

He's a toxic little creature IMHO.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol

You fail to mention that Galloway is currently touring the country on his 'Just say Naw' tour and is fiercely anti-Yes and that his tour had been temporarily suspended due to 'co-ordinated abuse' from Yes voters.

Just hours before Friday night’s attack, Galloway had posted a tweet after Labour MP Jim Murphy temporarily suspended his UK campaign tour claiming “co-ordinated abuse” from Yes voters.

I agree, his beating from a pro-Israeli nut job had nothing to do with the independence debate, but the abuse he has suffered and the possible suspension of his tour most certainly does.

I wonder if you would have been as equally indignant if he'd been in favour of independence?

For the record; I think George Galloway is a complete knob and disagree with a hell of a lot of what he has to say, but I admire his strength of conviction and support his right to voice his opinions.

George had to Cancel because at £15 a pop for his just say Naw tour he seriously underestimated his own over inflated ego.
George likes to Talk about Independence for Palestine, for Ireland, but Independence for Scotland...Na, it's not for us cry's George.
Here's one of George's famous quotes that he like to pull out at every twist and turn when he's talking about any other subject other than Independence.. "The sun never sets on the British Empire; because God doesn't trust the English in the dark


He's a traitor to his own people and a two headed snake. I'm sure if there was something in it for George he would be voting Yes.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Oh, and forgot to mention - this was reported in The Daily Record which whilst being part of Trinity Mirror plc is based in Glasgow, has its own Scottish editorial team and whilst being nominally supportive of The Labour Party it has never shied away from criticising it when deemed necessary and several recent editorials have had a more pro-independence slant.

The Daily Record is as Scottish as can be and IF it can be described as 'gutter press' then it is SCOTTISH gutter press and not English.

No, you never blame anything on those bastard English do you?

Maybe so, but at the end of the day you need to keep your employer sweet, even if you are working for the devil himself..

I have been following every single story about the referendum online..(i wouldn't buy this rag if you paid me) and trust me...Remaining unbiased?? they seem to have never got the Memo.. at least 5 pro No stories to 1 pro Yes.

a reply to: uncommitted

Do you also support his right to voice his opinion that 'no doesn't always really mean no' and that some women who claim they have been raped actually gave consent by saying no?

I most certainly don't agree with what he said but yes, I do defend his right to express his opinions.
Because that's all they are, his opinions, and they lack any supportive reasoning be they moral or empirical.
And it is those of opposing opinions to highlight the faults in his argument and reasoning.

He's a toxic little creature IMHO.

He's a complete knob and an odious individual - but he has a right to voice his opinion - and for some bizarre reason there are some out there who agree with him.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: uncommitted

Do you also support his right to voice his opinion that 'no doesn't always really mean no' and that some women who claim they have been raped actually gave consent by saying no?

I most certainly don't agree with what he said but yes, I do defend his right to express his opinions.
Because that's all they are, his opinions, and they lack any supportive reasoning be they moral or empirical.
And it is those of opposing opinions to highlight the faults in his argument and reasoning.

He's a toxic little creature IMHO.

He's a complete knob and an odious individual - but he has a right to voice his opinion - and for some bizarre reason there are some out there who agree with him.

Hi Freeborn,

While I totally understand your point, I do think there should be a point when things are just better left unsaid by some people, regardless of what they think depending on their state of mind. Hard though it is to believe, there may be some strange people out there who take his comments as justification for what they may do.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

George had to Cancel because at £15 a pop for his just say Naw tour he seriously underestimated his own over inflated ego.

The show is continuing - that was made perfectly clear in the article you linked to.

I agree, he does have quite an ego, but it seems some people are keen to continue feeding it - makes no sense to me either.

George likes to Talk about Independence for Palestine, for Ireland, but Independence for Scotland...Na, it's not for us cry's George.

Yes, he's a hypocrite - think I've made it perfectly clear I don't like the man and don't agree with much of what he says - but that doesn't alter the inaccuracies in your post.

He's a traitor to his own people and a two headed snake. I'm sure if there was something in it for George he would be voting Yes.

Is he a traitor because of his opposition to independence or because of his hypocrisy?

Maybe so, but at the end of the day you need to keep your employer sweet, even if you are working for the devil himself..

I used to read The Record in the 90's and early noughties and I know that it is fiercely proud of its Scottish heritage and prides itself on its editorial independence.
Now I'm not that naïve that I believe its entirely free from undue influence from its owners but I think the current Editor is not scared to voice his own personal opinion in direct opposition to 'party line' - the papers editorial on Trident was proof positive of this.

I have been following every single story about the referendum online..(i wouldn't buy this rag if you paid me) and trust me...Remaining unbiased??

I've never said they are unbiased.

they seem to have never got the Memo.. at least 5 pro No stories to 1 pro Yes.

Maybe that's because they genuinely believe that a 'No' vote is the best option for Scotland.

Not everyone in the 'No' camp are traitors, are they?

My point about your comments on The Daily Record was you labelling it 'English gutter press' when if they are to labelled anything it should be 'Scottish gutter press' - a distinction that you of all people should appreciate?

a reply to: Freeborn

You fail to mention that Galloway is currently touring the country on his 'Just say Naw' tour and is fiercely anti-Yes and that his tour had been temporarily suspended due to 'co-ordinated abuse' from Yes voters.

I didn't know about that tour. I wonder why Galloway is involving himself in the independence issue so actively. Perhaps it will serve the no campaign better that he is side-lined for a bit. Having said that I'm sure he will be back as soon as...

No one I have spoken to seems to like him and yet he doesn't bother me. Most things I have heard him say I agree with...but I haven't heard much.

I think that some of the no campaigners have done their cause more harm than good. Unpopular politicians and non local celebrities just get people's backs up. Perhaps everything has been said and people now just have to think about it. I wonder if there will be a build up of excitement as the day approaches. I have been asking people their views and the subject is pretty emotive for some. I have now backed off a bit as they can also get a little...

To be honest I am having fun with the whole issue. I like having this choice and it really is the perfect time to be looking at our future direction. We have just had a decade of madness regarding politics, finance and military. It is ongoing...nothing has changed and nothing will change.
Some say...well it will be just the same in Holyrood, perhaps, but immediately we will be out of the UK, USA dog of war loop. We also won't have the House of Lords...small steps.

You have nothing to lose Freeborn, there are only gains for the English people either way. It is we who bear the risk.

"Cap In Hand"

I could tell the meaning of a word like serene
I got some 'O' Grades when I was sixteen
I can tell the difference between magarine and butter
I can say "Saskatchewan" without starting to stutter

But I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand
I could get a broken jaw from being in a fight
I know its evening when day turns to night
I can understand why Stranraer lie so lowly
They could save a lot of points by signing Hibs Goalie

But I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand

We fight - when they ask us
We boast - then we cower
We beg
For a piece of
Whats already ours

Once I thought I could make God a bribe
So I said I was in his lost tribe
Getting handouts can be so frustrating
"Get in line son, there's five million waiting"

I can't understand why you let someone else rule your land, cap in hand
I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand
I can't understand why you let someone else rule your land, cap in hand...


By Craig and Charlie.

a reply to: Soloprotocol
Very nice, but your point is?

Isn't Gordon Brown Scottish? Wasn't Blair born in Scotland?

Why are you 'cap in hand'? You are really just showing a side of some people in Scotland for which there isn't (to my knowledge) an equivalent in England that thinks Scotland is somehow lesser than the rest of its current UK neighbours. The sad thing is that there is this belief by some in Scotland.

Not sure who you are posting that to try and inform, bit boring really, you know this is the 21st not 15th century don't you?

a reply to: uncommitted
It's time for change and if the only way we can achieve it is by going it alone then so be it.
Might as well keep up the replies through a wee bit song.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Then why not something that makes sense? Scotland in the 21st century can't really justify a rebel song and the words

"We fight - when they ask us " are just wrong. If people signed up for the armed forces, it was the British forces. If they didn't want to take part in conflict that Britain may be involved in, then they shouldn't sign up - it's not hard to work out is it?

Sad, just very sad that some people in Scotland seem to have this point of view. If it helps at all, in England there really isn't that much emotion building up, I can't see why you want to make it like some kind of righteous battle. I appreciate that Salmond likes to shout and make it seem so, but he is doing that to (it seems) the people who think Mel Gibsons portrayal of Wallace is based on historical fact.

What will happen will happen, I hope whatever that is benefits us all.

a reply to: midicon

I didn't know about that tour. I wonder why Galloway is involving himself in the independence issue so actively.

Maybe because he's a Scotsman and he has an opinion.
Maybe also because like most politicians, Salmond included, he's an egotist and can't resist the opportunity to do a bit of self-aggrandisement.

Perhaps it will serve the no campaign better that he is side-lined for a bit. Having said that I'm sure he will be back as soon as...

Just as many see Salmond as the best advert for the 'No' campaign maybe Galloway will become the best spokesman for the 'Yes' argument.

I think that some of the no campaigners have done their cause more harm than good. Unpopular politicians and non local celebrities just get people's backs up.

Without a doubt - I know personally I'd be more than just a bit pissed off at all the z-list 'celebrities' and minor notorieties sticking their oar in. That goes for both sides.

Perhaps everything has been said and people now just have to think about it.

As I understand it there are still quite a few undecided and their votes could be critical.

I was surprised to see that there are still over a million people who haven't registered to vote.
I suspect that will help the 'Yes' vote but I guess we'll never know for sure.

To be honest I am having fun with the whole issue. I like having this choice and it really is the perfect time to be looking at our future direction.

Of course its right that this vote is taking place - true democracy.
But it just goes to show Scotland isn't the oppressed, down at heel nation some believe and Westminster isn't as over bearing and tyrannical as we all believe - otherwise this referendum wouldn't be taking place.

You have nothing to lose Freeborn, there are only gains for the English people either way.

To be honest I don't see how independence will be beneficial in any way to North East England unless it proves to be a catalyst for a move towards devolved power for all the regions of the UK.

But why should rUK be a concern for Scotland?

It is we who bear the risk.

Unless rUK has to underwrite the new nation with its currency.

a reply to: Freeborn

But why should rUK be a concern for Scotland?

The rest of the UK should be a concern for Scotland. Friends, neighbours, allies, relatives, history and all that goes with it. Independence is not about any of that.
There are some politicians looking forward to change in Westminster. All I am saying Freeborn is that this is not just an opportunity for Scotland, it may bring some needed change in England. Nothing else is on the horizon.

The truth is no one really knows what independence will bring, that is why it is a risk for us. If the UK underwrites our currency then they will benefit not us. The money men in the City of London will see to that. I have complete faith in their financial ruthlessness.

I have no sense of patriotism, nor do I like borders, so for me it is all about political change. If we vote for independence then this is the time for the English people to raise their voice and call for change for themselves.

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Then why not something that makes sense? Scotland in the 21st century can't really justify a rebel song and the words

Rebel Song....Eh???????

a reply to: Freeborn
The daily record is owned by trinity mirror based in Canary wharf. Pretty much all press in the UK isn't English,Scottish or whatever just pushes the owners personal prejudices.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Then why not something that makes sense? Scotland in the 21st century can't really justify a rebel song and the words

Rebel Song....Eh???????

It's suggesting Scotland is in someway subjugated by England and should not be, that's why I used the term.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Then why not something that makes sense? Scotland in the 21st century can't really justify a rebel song and the words

Rebel Song....Eh???????

It's suggesting Scotland is in someway subjugated by England and should not be, that's why I used the term.

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.

God save the Queen!

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Then why not something that makes sense? Scotland in the 21st century can't really justify a rebel song and the words

Rebel Song....Eh???????

Written in 1745, hence kind of my point

It's suggesting Scotland is in someway subjugated by England and should not be, that's why I used the term.

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.

God save the Queen!

Written in 1745, hence my point

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.

God save the Queen!

That song has not been sang as part of The National Anthem for donkey's years - I think almost everyone recognises and acknowledges that it is deeply offensive and highly inappropriate.

By bringing it to our attention all you've achieved is showing how far the Union has progressed over the years.

Personally I don't think that song should be the National Anthem - but I guess I'm probably in the minority in thinking that.

a reply to: ScepticScot

The daily record is owned by trinity mirror based in Canary wharf.

Yes I know, that's why I said that in one of the posts I made earlier.

Pretty much all press in the UK isn't English,Scottish or whatever just pushes the owners personal prejudices.

I suspect you'd be hard pressed to find a truly independent newspaper almost anywhere in the world.

But again, as I said earlier, The Record has always insisted upon editorial independence and has never shied away from criticising Westminster etc or opposing party line whenever they have deemed necessary.
I'm not that naïve that I think The Record is immune from external interference etc but I suspect it calls it as it see's it pretty much more than the majority of publications.