U.S. says Russia firing artillery over border at Ukraine military

Introducing Russian military hardware or even troops(even though they are already there) on Ukraine soil that changes how the world reacts and the game will be changing.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Russia is not afraid of any sanctions imposed on itself. They can slow the economy by a little but that's about it.

West cannot assume that its "fascist puppets" can use artillery, phosphorus bombs, heavy weapons on common civilian Russian people and Russia as a country will stand aside and watch meekly.

Enough is enough !!

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: Vovin
a reply to: MrSpad

Except that the separatists are not collapsing. In fact, the Ukrainian army is collapsing, hence the Pentagon advisors sent to Ukraine to rebuild the army.

When a few hundred rebels have held strong in half the country and defeated thousands of soldiers, armour and air power, it does not make sense to claim that the separatists are losing grip.

In fact, the fifth column of international antifa fighters is pouring in to fight the fascists that have also poured into Ukraine. This is 1930s Spain all over again.

Not only are the rebels collapsing the PM party resigned and killed the coalition and called for new elections because they believe the rebels will be done with a next few weeks and they want to ride the victory to take enough seats that they will not need or completely dominate any new coalition government. The US advisors are to train the Ukraine to take on Russia if it comes to an invasion. That is not likely Putin has been takling about a ceasefire.

He is calling for this for two reasons. One, the rebels are falling apart and without the support of the local population or Russian intervention they will be defeated soon. If they had local support they could have dragged this out for years but, either it was never there or their actions with the locals caused to end. They do have a reputation of stealing everything not bolted to the ground. Second Russia with new santions wants to deflect attention from investigation into the airliner shoot down. If the Russians are in peace talks the results of the investigation will be smoother over in so as not derail talks.

As I am dealing in reality I am not going to bother with your facist and antifa fighter nonsense as it has about as much to with Ukraine as do with lizard people and the NWO.

I have no clue what you're talking about. This has everything to do with fascism and leftist resistance. The Ukrainian Army is collapsing.

Maybe the problem is sources. See, I don't watch western propaganda so I just don't see the same narrative that you claim. The separatists are posting updates, news, raw video and tactical coverage several times a day without spending most of their time building up narratives without facts.

You're claiming you're right but you are spouting the same nonsense that western propaganda is promoting. It's the same PR program that lies every time. Why would I trust lies provided by paid actors on television when news from the front lines itself is much more accurate?

If the rebels are losing, then why is the Ukrainian army units surrounding and bombarding a dozen cities with artillery shells and rockets right now? The answer is because they have failed to push into the cities.

Why are Ukrainian Army conscripts begging to defect to the rebels or amnesty in Russia? Because they do not want to kill their own people.

Why are Pentagon advisors directing the military offensive from an office in Kiev? Because this is a proxy war to suck Russia into a direct engagement with NATO.

The Peoples' Republics of Donetsk and Lughansk have never been stronger. The rebellion is stirring in Kharkov against property controlled by fascist billionaire oligarchs that were emplaced as governors in the new "democracy".

You act like this situation has never happened before but it has been going on for a century in different regions around the world. Us realist strategists use historical prerogatives to describe modern spatio-temporal geopolitical realities. We do not watch and get our narratives from what is fashionable on television.

originally posted by: victor7
Reports of lots of Russian machines crossing into Ukraine. It seems Russia is upping the ante here and would like the Kiev forces pretty occupied for next few months atleast.

Russia should send in artillery guns and grads to rebels so that any advancing Junta forces get a good welcome at every 5-10 miles and get finished even before reaching any town or city.

Btw, reports of "at random" shelling on the civilian areas in Horlivka. 15 civilians killed and many injured. This is outright war crime.

This has to stop. Going after rebels does not mean the whole town residential blocks are leveled to ground.

It does not matter what Russia sends at this point unless it is troops. No rebel group no matter how well armed can survive without the backing of the local population. When you have that you can fight for years with a hodge podge of crappy weapons. If you do not have that then it does matter what you have because you are going to get crushed. And how can Russia justify any support for the rebels when the entire story was suppose to be the locals so wanted to leave Ukraine and join Russia they were in the state of a popular uprising. The general opinion of the locals about the rebels seems to be that they are bunch of thieves using the conflict as and excuse to rob them blind.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: victor7
Reports of lots of Russian machines crossing into Ukraine. It seems Russia is upping the ante here and would like the Kiev forces pretty occupied for next few months atleast.

Russia should send in artillery guns and grads to rebels so that any advancing Junta forces get a good welcome at every 5-10 miles and get finished even before reaching any town or city.

Btw, reports of "at random" shelling on the civilian areas in Horlivka. 15 civilians killed and many injured. This is outright war crime.

This has to stop. Going after rebels does not mean the whole town residential blocks are leveled to ground.

It does not matter what Russia sends at this point unless it is troops. No rebel group no matter how well armed can survive without the backing of the local population. When you have that you can fight for years with a hodge podge of crappy weapons. If you do not have that then it does matter what you have because you are going to get crushed. And how can Russia justify any support for the rebels when the entire story was suppose to be the locals so wanted to leave Ukraine and join Russia they were in the state of a popular uprising. The general opinion of the locals about the rebels seems to be that they are bunch of thieves using the conflict as and excuse to rob them blind.

What evidence do you have to support your claim that the local population does not support the separatists?

It sounds like fantasy to me. The local population has been bombed non-stop by Kiev's forces. Insinuating that the population supports Kiev is about as logical as claiming that Palestinians support Israeli government.

a reply to: Vovin

So we are using logic to determine whether the locals support the separatists?

I am sure the locals will be happy to learn what our consensus is on what is logical.

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: Vovin

So we are using logic to determine whether the locals support the separatists?

I am sure the locals will be happy to learn what our consensus is on what is logical.

Yes, we are using logic. People do not support other people who bomb them. Logic.

Or we could just assume that they support the people killing dozens of them everyday because Russia is bad and Ukraine is good. That's the level of discussion that is being portrayed as "reality".

a reply to: bbracken677

So we are using logic to determine whether the locals support the separatists?

Well according to this the locals are glad to see the separatists gone...

www.kyivpost.com...

And there are more I'm sure it will start to come out as time goes on.

a reply to: Vovin

Yes, we are using logic. People do not support other people who bomb them. Logic.

And they don't support those who kidnap and terrorize them either, which is why the separatists have lost much of what they had.

a reply to: Vovin

The point is, since you seemed to have missed it, is that we should not assume a people are supporting an insurrection or not supporting. Deny ignorance.

Declaring as fact that the "people" are or are not supporting the actions of the separatists without any evidence, based solely on "logic" is not denying ignorance.

It is embracing ignorance.

I do not "know" one way or another, but I will be damned if I take someone's opinion as fact. Never have and never will. Funny how some people define "logic".

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: Vovin

So we are using logic to determine whether the locals support the separatists?

I am sure the locals will be happy to learn what our consensus is on what is logical.

In Luhansk and Donetsk, 75% of population is Russian related. These regions were behind the election of Yanukovich a pro Russia candidate. Atleast in these two areas, support is there.

That is why these two regions or towns will be defended with much more efforts.

a reply to: MrSpad

Your arguments make sense but only on this forum...............i.e. not in the real world.

Russians troops are going to follow up later on. Right now they are exhausting the Kiev forces in all men, machines and monetary matters.

Stay tuned for higher levels of defections from the Junta forces.

Btw, it has been reported that National Guards i.e. Bendera fascists have been fighting better than the regular army. This gives Russia more reason and support to send in the troops i.e. against the official sworn fascists carrying Nazi flags and shouting fascist slogans.

In the meantime, Russia should provide good numbers of body armor and battlefield medics with good supplies. These will keep the morale and efficiency of the rebels in high gear and produce much better results.

a reply to: victor7

If true, that is exactly what I was talking about. You presented something that can be researched and verified (or not) as opposed to what someone calls "logic" without evidence.

Personally I do not care if they support the separatists or not.

Washington’s MH17 End Game: Targetting Moscow as a “State Sponsor of Terrorism”, Deployment of “Shadow NATO Forces” inside Ukraine

www.globalresearch.ca... ne/5393770

The US has plainly demonstrated that it is salivating for a Cold War redux with Russia, and once more, Europe is caught in the middle. It is completely contrary to any of its interests for it to participate in this needless and aggressive geopolitical struggle, but as the EU seems wont to do nowadays, it may easily get sucked into it out of misguided ideological and political reasons dictated by the US.

a reply to: victor7

lol your sources are... questionable.

Globalresearch.ca (also under the domain name globalresearch.org) may best be described as the moonbat equivalent to WorldNetDaily. It is the website of the Montreal-based non-profit The Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG) founded by Michel Chossudovsky.
The website describes itself as an "independent research and media organization." Globalresearch.ca takes pride in being a reliable "alternative news" source serving as a major repository of a broad range of "news articles, in-depth reports and analysis on issues which are barely covered by the mainstream media" (such as the New World Order). Its politico-economic stance is strongly anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, anti-militarist, "internationalist but anti-globalization." Its view of science, the economy and geopolitics seems to be broadly conspiracist.
While many of Globalresearch.ca's articles discuss legitimate humanitarian or environmental concerns, the site has a strong undercurrent of reality warping and bull# throughout its pages, especially in relation to taking its news from Russia Today, along with other unreliable and/or open sources.
Despite presenting itself as a source of scholarly analysis, Globalresearch.ca mostly consists of polemics many of which accept (and use) conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and propaganda. The prevalent conspiracist strand relates to global power-elites (primarily governments and corporations) and their New World Order.[1] Specific featured conspiracy theories include those addressing 9/11,[2] vaccines,[3] genetic modification,[4] Zionism,[5][6] HAARP,[7] global warming,[8][9] and David Kelly.[10] Analyses of these issues tend follow the lines of the site's political biases.

Rationalwiki

a reply to: victor7

Washington’s MH17 End Game: Targetting Moscow as a “State Sponsor of Terrorism”, Deployment of “Shadow NATO Forces” inside Ukraine

Why doesn't this surprise me?

Andrew Korybko is the American political correspondent of Voice of Russia who currently lives and studies in Moscow, exclusively for ORIENTAL REVIEW.

Voice of Russia...Really?

This sh*t is f*cking laughable, now the U.S. accusing Russia of breaching nuclear arms treaty. Wake up folks, they're looking for excuses and ANY wil do

And isn't it weird how there's no mention of Kiev artilery firing into Russia?

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

And isn't it weird how there's no mention of Kiev artilery firing into Russia?

Could that be because they aren't and the only one's saying it is Russia

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

And isn't it weird how there's no mention of Kiev artilery firing into Russia?

Could that be because they aren't and the only one's saying it is Russia

And we're back to propagnda bullsh*t again, how do you know they aren't? And you can't be serious to believe the U.S. who fail to produce definitve evidence with every claim they make.

Do you admit that the U.S. is throwing every single excuse they can at Russia?

And here's Kiev trying to recruit, not going so well

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: Vovin

So we are using logic to determine whether the locals support the separatists?

I am sure the locals will be happy to learn what our consensus is on what is logical.

u mean these locals??

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

And we're back to propagnda bullsh*t again, how do you know they aren't? And you can't be serious to believe the U.S. who fail to produce definitve evidence with every claim they make.

And how is that propaganda, as there isn't any evidence of this except coming from Russia?

And how do you know they are, because Russia has said so because as we have already seen they will make up stories to try and get more support, yet most can see through the shoddy evidence they provide.

Do you admit that the U.S. is throwing every single excuse they can at Russia?

And exactly what excuses are the US throwing at Russia?