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Chicago crime overnight report: 67 shot over long weekend, man charged in shooting of 5-year-old

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posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 09:24 PM
a reply to: Willtell

That is certainly true, a lot of victims in that city. I read some articles in the msm and all I see are more excuses for the behaviour. We've spent years wringing our hands and blaming all of society for the afflictions in places like Chicago. Is it possible that all the fault, all the blame lies squarely at their feet? I think it's time to consider this option.

posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 09:29 PM
a reply to: Black_Fox

What happened and gun related in those three days didn't happen in my home COUNTRY for more than a decade. home country is The Netherlands. After reading such news I have the opinion that the United States of America has a very tough society. Do you guys who live in the US have a feel that your society is becoming tougher and in some kind of downward spiral?

posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 10:06 PM
a reply to: zatara

Respectfully trying to judge America and its society based on what occurs in one city does not give an accurate representation of the US as a whole. Secondly people need to understand how the laws in the US work. While we have federal laws, we also have state and local laws. State laws are not uniform and can vary from one state to the next. The violence in Chicago is a direct result of their governments failure to adequately understand how their gun laws do not work and why they do not work.

Gun crime in Chicago Illinois is not the same as gun crime in Los Angeles, is not the same as gun crime in New York City, is not the same as gun crime in Tippecanoe Indiana. Trying to compare would be like comparing gun crimes in London to those in rural Libya.

The City I live in has had one gun related homicide in the last3 years.

The City I work in has not had one gun related homicide in over a decade.

What we are seeing in Chicago is a direct result of what the local government thinks is going on instead of what is actually going on. When a political party thinks they know how to bring down crime rates, by passing more and more laws, while refusing to understand criminals wont follow those laws, is the problem.

In Chicago's case their political leaders think that an outright ban on any and all weapons is the solution. The fundamental flaw is criminals don't follow the laws. They think that a law abiding citizen should surrender when confronted with an armed criminal, with the mindset that giving the criminal what they want will result is a "peaceful" resolution - IE no one is shot and killed.

The problem with that mentality is it not only causes damage to the individuals who were confronted by armed criminals, it emboldens the criminals to continue with their course of action, knowing the individuals they are robbing / etc have no means of defending themselves, making them prime targets for continued criminal actions.

The purpose of including 2nd amendment was to act as a counterbalance on the off chance the government decides the will of the people does not apply to them. Ironically enough its essentially the same mindset criminals have today with regards to gun crimes.

If absolute gun control laws worked, then why do we see gun crimes in Canada, Australia, Britain, Norway, Germany, etc etc.

The simple fact a criminal can obtain a firearm in those countries and commit crimes proves gun control does not work there either.

To an outsider I understand how the gun culture in this country can seem backwards. As a US citizen I can say the 2nd amendment, and an individuals right to bear arms, is a fundamental requirement to ensure this country's government respects the will of the people.

Germany did ok with individuals right to own firearms. It was not until Hitler and the Nazi's outlawed private ownership of guns that their control of the country, and the German people, became absolute.

As a law enforcement officer I will take the risk of being shot and killed by a person with a firearm than go down the road of disarming the public just so I can feel safe when dealing with a citizen.

The citizens should never fear the government, the government should fear the citizens. Without that fear a government has a tendency to treat the entire population as "enemies".

edit on 8-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 10:11 PM

originally posted by: zatara home country is The Netherlands. After reading such news I have the opinion that the United States of America has a very tough society. Do you guys who live in the US have a feel that your society is becoming tougher and in some kind of downward spiral?

I don't think its getting worse. The inner cities have been like this for decades, though in reality, the statistical evidence indicates that violent crime and homicides are actually down sharply from their highs in the early 1990s. We're actually at or near a historical low in that regard, believe it or not. Likewise, most of the country, probably 90%+ from a geographic standpoint, has no significant problem in regard to violent crime. Its mostly the urban centers that are the problem.

There's no easy solution to it. Blaming an inanimate object for the criminal behavior rampant is illogical and will prove ineffective. Ultimately, its going to take a real investment in improving the educational and employment opportunities in those areas, but before that can work, they're going to have to clean out the gangs, drug dealers and other dangerous criminals. Unfortunately, that's never going to happen, because too many politicians have an interest in keeping those areas down, as they've realized that a poor, uneducated populace is also one that is easily manipulated on election day.
edit on 8-7-2014 by vor78 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 11:25 PM
a reply to: Willtell

As a whole, Irish immigrants received horrible treatment. During WWI and WWII Germans received the same.

Yet, the numbers for crime as a culture for them isn't what it is for Blacks and Hispanics.

Seems the only excuse you and others can come up with is the poor (Insert what ever) and their plight.

Inside of allowing Race Pimps like Sharpton and Jackson to dribble honey in your ear, you should tell the truth to those "poor people of plight".

posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 11:46 PM
a reply to: Xcathdra

Come on,we all know guns dont kill people,people kill people with guns.

People are killing each other for money,so fix that and you stop the killings.

Poverty is the catalyst of need,and America has pimped its own children right into the levels of poverty which create killings based on money.

The American Dream was based on theft from other Americans,free Enterprise is legalised theft from the masses.

A society which has endorsed and accepted this reality is DOOMED.

America will either spear-head a Global fiscal reform or it will be eaten alive from within.

Some of the worst Humanitarian Criminal Terrorists on the Planet were spawned from the USA.

The very laws themselves are bastardised due to historic religous/economic interests basiclly writing them as they chose using money and lawyers to craft a legal landscape that benefits them to this day.

How can a Cop truly say he represents the law when he knows it is a farce,he CANNOT,he can only say he is doing the best with what he has to work with and that is the best anyone can do,you see EVERYONE HAS ALREADY SURRENDERED EVEN MEN LIKE YOU WHO SAY THE RIGHT THINGS are REPRESENTING THE WRONG THINGS BY DEFAULT,you have NO WAY to stand for what you know very well is right,so there is no way in good conscience that you could do your job.

Forget TPTB,even just The Blue Line in law enforcement is more powerfull than your own kids futures,and if it wasnt we would see changes from within,but we do not see this,it is all rhetoric and double-speak.Each time a single Americans rights are abused by any form of civil law enforcement OR Justice or adjudication process IT IS YOUR OWN CHILDREN BEING ABUSED.

I can turn on Youtube any hour of the day or night and watch horrible crimes committed against innocent citisens by law enforcement all over the country and also watch Courts action even greater abuses and inequitys,this is a FACT and because of the internet this FACT can no longer be suppressed.

Now we know WHO these laws really support,and it is not the PEOPLE,we now know it is the industrial military Complex running the show across the board,they wrote the laws for themselves not the people and law enforcement enforces those laws in many many cases to the detriment of the American People.

Now if we keep in mind that it is a lack of money creating poverty and catalysing violence,then obviously we dont need to disarm the people,we need to see those people using those arms to take back the money that has been stolen from them by one of the biggest organised crime entitys in Human History.

This feeling of "need" which poverty forces upon people creates a sense of desperation a sense of a shortened or defunct future and it galvanises people into unusual unnatural actions,this is a known dynamic and is USED against the American People like a weapon.

YOU know very well where the problem is,it is economic inequity artificially forced upon specific groups at a maintained degree and level.

You know how to fix it,repatriate the money stolen from your people by a select few organised criminals,face the facts that this was done to you be some of your VERY OWN.

Let the fact that your VERY OWN have screwed you into this mess motivate you to root them out and fix things.Isnt that the American Way?

No one external to the US has created their problems,and no one external to it can solve them.

Disenfranchise the rich and empower the poor and do it ASAP or there will be NO AMERICA in the Future.

It is easier to take the money back from a handfull of organised criminals than to take the guns back from over 300 million people,no?

edit on 8-7-2014 by one4all because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 12:09 AM
a reply to: one4all

Your illogical rant aside I would suggest you reread my post and understand it before posting a response to it.

Secondly you know nothing about me and how I do my job so don't try and go down that road and try to insulate things about me and my chosen profession. Trying to make a blanket argument is about as intelligent as people blaming guns for the deaths when in fact it IS the person who is using the gun itself.

People who drink and drive and get caught don't blame the car for their actions.
People who do drugs cant blame the drugs themselves.
People who rant without having all the facts while inserting personal opinion based on past negative contact cant blame the system for ALL injustices and then apply them to all individuals.

Contrary to popular belief in order to fix things one must move beyond the "bitching" and "blame" stage.
edit on 9-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 01:41 AM
a reply to: Xcathdra

I did read your post.

I believe your post was also illogical,biased and generally full of propoganda supporting your singular perspective ,hence my response.

You may put your funny little leo the lion attitude away for now ok? I do not care what you do for a living nor do I care to what degree of passion or intention you offer to your job daily.

Your SOP dynamic situational control crap doesnt fly with me.

You are a propaganda machine now arent you huh?

Your attitude is typicaly elitist,you dont like being treated like the Baker and the Candle -stick maker do you?

Well get used to it you are no better than anyone else,your chosen profession whatever it is has given you an attitude.

The only thing that contains a "blanket impact" is the volume of crimes commtted against innocent people every day which is now recorded and uploaded to the internet,it burns you when you are faced with being a part of the problem when you have no way to fix it doesnt it?Well try thinking about how the average American feels in Chicago every day huh?

"while inserting personal opinion based on past negative contact cant blame the system for ALL injustices and then apply them to all individuals."---- what is this some SOP rhetoric out of your training manual?You are TALKING to "the People" now not suppressing them .

I am talking about the thousands of people who are abused daily in America by out of control and poorly managed and poorly policed civil and federal law enforcement groups ,what the hill of beans are you talking about?

Are you kidding me?You mean the "negative contacts "milllions of Americans have every day right?

You think you can take a stand on behalf of law enforcement everywhere and get lippy with me ?You are used to being a bully and I am used to handeling people with your attitude.

An attack on one is an attack on all and you think you can come out with guns a blazing huh?Ha ha ha,typical Blue Line Law enforcement crap .I am not worried we arent on a dark street with you leaning into my window with a gun on your hip and this odd attitude of elitism you foster.

You arent the only one with long standing law enforcement acumen ,you just seem to think you have a right to speak for them all.

You see the impacts of artificially imposed poverty every day if you are in any type of civil siupport role,you are a real case,you dont even have the guts to buck up to that or are you just waiting for back-up?

You worry about cleaning out your own INDUSTRYS closet professionally before you make the mistake of defending that said industry or profession if you dont mind.

Do some research and some homework , Canadians are allowed via federal Law to own and posses handguns and all manner of firearms,Canada has less gun control on the books than America also has less mass poverty artificially created and maintained and less class differentiation,or predjudice economiclly,and yes Dorothy LESS GUN CRIME.You Americans bring it on yoursleves and then try to abbrogate everyones rights and shoot your way out of things,and that is the bleeding law enforcement perspective,what exactly would you expect the crooks to be thinking huh ?

You think you are in a war against crime when you are really in a war against POVERTY AND INEQUITY,but you choose the path of least resistance and spout propoganda supporting your own party line status qou with little to no regard for your fellow Americans of lesser economic standing than yourself and your current peers.

You are defensive and excusatory,and were I currently in your situation career wise I may feel the same ways.

I have watched many documentarys about Chicagos crime,and it is an ambarassment to your nation,and I can see why it persists,if this is how many of you think.

Why is everyone I see Black?Why are all the criminals Black? What are you doing to those people to make it this way?

Canada is the same as the US,it is a part of the NA Continent,but the similaritys stop there dont they?

We dont segregate people based on their race or creed into impoverished dynamics anymore,and you pal do exactly this and then defend it to the bitter end with all types of propoganda.

I have watched wave after wave of immigants from the most brutal war torn countrys come to Canada over DECADES some literally days from battlefields and each group is the same dynamiclly,they arrive in shock and in poverty,they are HELPED enough to become productive people and they do not commit a disproportionate number of crimes,if this help is denied to them or they slip through the cracks then they do in fact commit crimes at a higher than normal rate,but when their dynamic situations are considered it is understandable and a curable situation.

As Americans like to frequently say,it is all about the Benjamins, so stop trying to cloud the waters with excusatory explanations of conflicting hampering laws and structures on Community,State,and Federl levels which are really in place to enable this atrocious state of affairs.

There are no excuses for how America has treated its people,of all races and creeds.

You are essentially slow learners with a large stubborn streak that does not help you in the current era of history.

You can beat around the bush all day with your propoganda but all you will do is flush out more impoverished people you have been hiding for to many years.

Your country is reaching a tipping point and it is deserved, in fact it is amazing things havent boiled over yet.

America has POOR people and RICH people and no one in between and the chasm is growing by the year.

The rich people are all white and the poor people are white and every other color.

Yall have this storm coming so buck it up sunshine,and I wouldnt advise taking your perspective to Chicago you might not fare so well,people are hungry,sick and impoverished there dont you know?

Or did you just think they were all gun carrying criminals ?

You dont sound like the rich or the poor,so you must be the biggest part of the American problem,an intentionlly ignorant middle class all secretly aiming for the American Dream and willing to step on the backs of anyone who gets in the way of that possibility,who will do anything to keep that horrible dream alive.

The middle class who are the minions of the rich and who are used to police and control the poor.The poorer they help keep the poor the better their individual chances of joining the Filthy Few Elite Rich,and the longer they can keep their own selfish little American Dream alive.

You ought to check your statistical graph,you may soon be in the wrong column.Havent you heard,the middle class is disappearing in America,and where do you think they are going ? Up or down?

You see the problem with the American way of thinking is outlined in every western you will ever see, just remember that the Rancher always HIRES his Guns to do his dirty work and the more money he has the more guns he can buy,you getting this now Cowboy?? The rich in America are running out of Guns to hire,and we all know what happens then dont we,we watched the same movies didnt we?

Churches are emptying,Rallys are barely attended, no one wants to be a part of the problem and now they know what and where that problem is located.The traditional brainwashing methods do not work and recruitment is at an all time low economy or not.

If you HELPED the people in Chicago then the problem would go away,but you do not want to do this,so suffer the consequences,it is to bad the impacts dont hit the suburbs so real change can happen.

Tear down the slums,give people jobs doing it,then rebuild and keep them working,but you cannot do that without first flling a bunch of greedy American pockets with graft money can you,you cannot help the poor unless you can help the rich even more,you bring this upon yourselves.

It is not about guns and criminals and drugs,it is about an ultra-rich class paying a shrinking middle class to police the massive number of lower class poor people. using artificially manipulated laws and courts ,It isnt hard to see where you fit into this picture.

Americas problems stem from discrimination of all sorts and the real problem seems to be that the Middle class are not educated quite enough to handle the masses anymore.

The poor people are as smart and imformed as the middle class,they are simply deprived of opportunity and they now know it,and they are beginning to learn who is behind this dynamic.

This is why your SOP propoganda doesnt work even when you try to tone it down so it sound more politiclly correct,you were trained well but people have outgrown your methods of dynamic control now,they arent stupid.

edit on 9-7-2014 by one4all because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 01:48 AM
a reply to: one4all

You can find your answer here.

Thanks for playing.

posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 01:58 AM

originally posted by: solomons path
a reply to: Black_Fox

First of all . . . things aren't "getting worse". Actually, things were MUCH worse in the 90's.

Or the 80's even..

But the fact is that 5-8 years ago it was very quiet in terms of crime.

In NYC, I am seeing crime and homelessness on the rise, especially the last 2 years.

posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 12:03 PM

originally posted by: Willtell
America and their gun loving culture encourages crime and violence.
People want to always get on the violence in the urban inner city.

If what you are saying was true then Texas and Arizona would be very violent states.
Just the Chicago metro area had 50 people shot on a 3 day Holiday week end and the states of Texas and Arizona did not have that many combined with 1000x the people.

Gun control does not work and never will.
In states where CCWs are easy to get or not even needed like Arizona the criminal learn fast or die.

The only gun control that really works is being able to carry and knowing how to hit your target with a full mag.
it saves lives and money because the criminal gets bagged .

posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 12:26 PM
Wait, wait, wait! Everyone on this forum said that there would be no more gun violence in Chicago because their gun ban was overturned. Remember that? Supposedly all the criminals and gangsters would be too scared to show their faces in public. What happened?

The point is that this society has big social problems that breed violence.

Yes, that is the real answer. Our society has been destroyed by capitalism, consumerism, overpopulation, and, I have to say, too many minorities. The only possible solution I can see is to give everyone in the inner city free vasectomies and when their population shrinks so will the problems.

posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 12:42 PM

originally posted by: CB328
Wait, wait, wait! Everyone on this forum said that there would be no more gun violence in Chicago because their gun ban was overturned. Remember that? Supposedly all the criminals and gangsters would be too scared to show their faces in public. What happened?

Lots of variables come into play there.
- Reality of getting a permit in Chicago
- Permitted people actually carrying
- Permitted people actually carrying being in the right place at the right time (or wrong place and time depending on your view) Most people who would bother getting a permit and actually qualify for one are not the type of people to be in or around gang run neighborhoods.
- Time for behavior to adjust
- Most regular folk likely dont even realize getting a permit is even possible for them yet

Most of these gang related incidents take place in gang neighborhoods occupied largely by people who are poor (cannot afford the permitting process) and people with records (could not pass permitting process.)

Baby steps.

One of the spate of shootings that took place in Chicago, Ill. over the July 4th holiday weekend involved a veteran with a concealed carry permit who was forced to a shoot a man who began firing on him and a group of friends. link

edit on 9-7-2014 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 02:06 PM

originally posted by: CB328
Wait, wait, wait! Everyone on this forum said that there would be no more gun violence in Chicago because their gun ban was overturned. Remember that? Supposedly all the criminals and gangsters would be too scared to show their faces in public. What happened?

Isn't the local Govt dragging their feet on processing CCW permits and other items???


posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 03:07 PM
a reply to: one4all
Well put!

posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 08:02 AM

originally posted by: CB328
Wait, wait, wait! Everyone on this forum said that there would be no more gun violence in Chicago because their gun ban was overturned. Remember that? Supposedly all the criminals and gangsters would be too scared to show their faces in public. What happened?

How many firearms are being sold to legal owners and how many CCW licenses are being issued? I don't know, but realistically, I would expect it to take a few years before it would have any significant effect. Results might be faster in Alabama where everyone already owned a firearm, but this is a case where few did. The entire infrastructure of a CCW society has to be built largely from scratch. Its going to take time.

Furthermore, most of these incidents are happening in the ghettos where most people either can't afford to purchase a firearm or they have a record that prohibits them from doing so. In these areas, the problems go far beyond anything that can be solved just by banning or allowing firearms.

posted on Jul, 10 2014 @ 08:41 AM
a reply to: macman

Yes they are doing that.

They should be careful since Washington DC got popped by the courts for doing the exact same.

I am curious as to why the people in the thread have such an issue with gun culture in the United States and not anywhere else. Crime rates related to gun violence in Asian / African and some South American countries, not to mention the Middle East, puts our rates to shame.

I am curious as to why those people think Americans are some how different than citizens in those other countries they are ignoring.

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