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Learn some history. Healthcare/employer paid insurance IS A BENEFIT NOT A RIGHT

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posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 11:38 AM
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The entitlement mentality is BS. For example: my wife and I are expecting our first child. I currently work as a contractor where benefits are provided, but not employer subsidized. Unfortunately, we'll need them for the baby, right? So what do I do? Not complain that I can't afford them and that my employer must pay. Instead, I find a job with comparable pay where I can be an actual staff member and where benefits are provided. MY CHOICE. Just like the employer's CHOICE to NOT PROVIDE. It's ok.

We're not entitled to crap. The sad reality in this day of squeezing the middle class, however, we need those stupid benefits for our child. But again, we CHOSE.




posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 11:53 AM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

Corporations are already "Psychopaths",

Callous disregard for the feelings of others. Check.

Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships. Check.

Reckless disregard for the safety of others. Check.

Deceitfulness: repeated lying and conniving others for profit. Check.

Incapacity to experience guilt. Check.

Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors. Check. ( The corporation)

Now they have religious rights. A psychopath with religious beliefs always ended well before ...I could think of worse things to be granted to a corporation, never-mind not really.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: jimmyx

We do not have representative government or a democracy. Now we have two choices, fascism or socialism as the result of an Oligarchy for the past 30 years.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: beezzer
that's what I've been doing it seems that they have dragged me back and are trying to convince me to partake!
I don't think that we are gonna be able to live in our own world
and no we cannot change a danged thing by just going without things we need to avoid relying on them!
we the people have to somehow convince the powers that be that we are on a pathway to destruction!
they are the only ones who have the power and ability to fix them!!!
till they are fixed yes you are gonna have people dependent on the gov't!
the alternative is just too damned unpleasant for them
and both the republicans and the democrats
or the conservatives and the liberals have played a part in creating this mess!



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: paleorchid13
a reply to: NavyDoc

Corporations are already "Psychopaths",

Callous disregard for the feelings of others. Check.

Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships. Check.

Reckless disregard for the safety of others. Check.

Deceitfulness: repeated lying and conniving others for profit. Check.

Incapacity to experience guilt. Check.

Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors. Check. ( The corporation)

Now they have religious rights. A psychopath with religious beliefs always ended well before ...I could think of worse things to be granted to a corporation, never-mind not really.



No. THe operate under some pretty stringent regulations in regards to the "feelings" of others. (Whatever "feelings" have to do with anything.) They also have to create and abide by equitable and agreeable employment contracts otherwise employees will go elsewhere.

No. Corporations often have loyal employees who are with them for 20, 30, even 40+ years. Those are the definition of "enduring relationships."

No. Have great regard for he safety of others otherwise they get fined and sued. Wanton disregard for safety is not profitable, at least in the US anyway, and employers here go overboard on the safety issues. I'm guessing you don't work in any sort of industry.

No. Lying? Perhaps some times, but they are held to their civil contracts and if you continually lie to customers, investors, regulators, and law enforcement, you get fined and sued. Dishonesty hurts long term profits.

No. If by "guilt" you mean responsive to all the above and being risk adverse, then they do experience it. If by "guilt" you mean giving you handouts, then no, they don't feel guilt.

NO. LOL. This last one is funny. Corporations and businesses are under a myriad of federal and state and municipal statutes and regulations. They have to conform to the law or go out of business. Hobby Lobby conformed to the law by by taking their case before the court which is the lawful and expected thing to do if you have a disagreement. As for "social norms," whose definition? If a lot of people don't like them or their practices or what they do, then they lose customers and profit. Conforming to social norms is good for business. Caving into your favorite special interest is not "conforming to social norms."

I see lack of knowledge of business and a lot of watching movies here. The same old stuff, just as silly.

Have there been corporations that have done the wrong and illegal thing? Certainly. Do the majority of businesses try to toe the law and keep their customer base happy? Absolutely. Are there those who don't know how business is run or regulated who just hate business because they simply don't like business or free enterprise? Apparently.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 12:16 PM
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At one time owning a slave was a benefit and a right. Sometimes evolving is a good thing.

Humanity will never evolve in the right direction until we straighten our priorities and work to achieving them. Its pretty disturbing that kids are still dying of hunger in the world that we live today and because the lack of basic medicine. Perhaps certain things should be a right as a civilization evolves?

With that said , I wouldn't trust our existing gov't or any gov't for that matter to have such control over resources as they have proven they can't handle it. However, we should be working to getting a gov't that works for the betterment of the masses rather than just the few who control the lobbying in this country.

If we worked towards having a gov't that was not controlled by the highest bidder and special interest groups I would not be opposed to ensuring that no kids would die of starvation or lack of medical help.

Are we there now? Not even close, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to get there versus being complacent with an obvious corrupted system that benefits the few versus the many.
edit on 24731America/ChicagoWed, 02 Jul 2014 12:24:20 -0500up3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 12:29 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The healthcare delivery system in the US has been broken for a long time and it's been a classic boiling frog process. The whole thing's been taken out of the hands of the doctor/patient relationship and has been driven by the insurance providers (including the medical malpractice providers) and pharmaceutical companies. It's been driven so far out of whack, that the unthinkable has happened. There are now a significant number of people convinced that the answer to the issue is to just let the government run it. Because we have such a history of that being such a good idea. (That there' s your sarcasm, for those needing a guide.)

Insurance is not health care. In fact health insurance is barely insurance at all. You have the illusion of coverage until you go to use it. Then you find what you have is virtually a 'discount card' that makes your $25,000 procedure only $8,000 to you, out of pocket. And a bill so confusing, even the people who generate it can't explain it. And of course, everyone in the government mandated plan has no problem coming up with $8k to pay off the difference, right?

It's been screwed up, it's still screwed up, and until it all collapses of its own bloated bureaucratic overload, it'll continue to be screwed up. Of course, the elected officials of our esteemed Gubmint will continue to work all out to see that doesn't happen. Which just means we'll have that much further to fall when it inevitably does.

Wheeee.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: yeahright

Astutely stated. Government only deals with broads strokes with a big fat brush, when with an individual's healthcare, a fine-tip brush is required. When do we reach the bottom though? How far must this perpetually busted machine keep running? At what point do the people realize they need to take the system back for themselves, and make their own choices in life?



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 12:50 PM
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It may not be a right.
But fair and reasonable access to Decent Healthcare is an indicator of being civilized.
We have the some of the best Doctors, Procedures, and equipment in the world.
Many people cannot gain reasonable access to much of it.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 01:16 PM
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I'm going to post with tunnel vision on... here goes...

Being healthy is a right, not a benefit. (As long as reasonable steps to stay healthy are being taken e.g. not smoking)
Pharmaceutical companies are in the most profitable industry known to mankind. That seems a little wrong in the bigger picture don't you think? Profiting off of the ill for nothing more than fake money worth no more than "consumer confidence."

Is the money that we print on paper with ink (literally, comparable to monopoly money), worth more than our loved ones well-being?



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: NavyDoc

because its hypocrisy........

Dana loesch quoted these, I found them quite funny.....




“Not my boss’s business — but I want my boss to pay for it!”

“Hands off my uterus — just give it your dollars instead.”

“Women united will never be defeated (so pay for our birth control).”

“Not the church, not the state, women must control our fate (please finance our fate).”


Sounds about right to me


I hear you. Which is more a "war on women," having to buy your own birth control or having half your income taken away in taxes, unable to defend yourself, job regulated out of existence, etc.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: scrounger

First of all, access to health care is a basic human right.


I, of course...stopped right there because listening to (or reading) what a liar writes is a waste of time. Just because you believe something, doesn't make it a fact.
edit on 7/2/2014 by WeAreAWAKE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: WeRpeons

No, it's not.

You do not have a right to anything another human being has to provide to you.

We once had a segment of our society who thought that, and we fought a Civil War to free those whose labor they thought they were entitled to. Yes, you are siding with slave owners who felt they were entitled to the free labor of slaves.

If you think you have a right to the services of your doctor, then you see him or her as nothing more than a slave to your needs.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 02:21 PM
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originally posted by: interupt42
At one time owning a slave was a benefit and a right. Sometimes evolving is a good thing.

Humanity will never evolve in the right direction until we straighten our priorities and work to achieving them. Its pretty disturbing that kids are still dying of hunger in the world that we live today and because the lack of basic medicine. Perhaps certain things should be a right as a civilization evolves?

.


No, those things should never be a right.

We should instead look for ways to help those who cannot help themselves and do so of our own free will, not because we are compelled to by government masters.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
After thinking about it for a while, I like the Hobby Lobby decision by the Court. I believe it is one more push toward single payer/medicare for all system. Health care is a right, rich or poor. We have the right to pursue happiness. Excluding millions of people and children from going to a doctor because of cash, is inhumane.

How about dental insurance? Life insurance? Flood, fire, home and auto insurance? Are they a "right" too? Lets see...what else can we pay for, for other people that they don't "need". I think everyone has a right to own a home...lets buy homes for everyone. How about a right to a cool TV and cable TV and internet? That makes me happy and I have a right to happiness...according to you. I want to pursue a life of internet research of sexy blondes in bikinis...do you have to pay me to quit my job and do that for the rest of my life? If so...PM me and I'll give you my PayPal account where you can start sending my paycheck.
edit on 7/2/2014 by WeAreAWAKE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: beezzer

When private enterprises or corporations fail to provide needed services, it is the responsibility for us to step in.

Define need. Most people think want and need are too much of the same. If I can pay for my medical visits then it is a want in that I want you to pay for it. It is only a need when I can't pay for it. No way, no how, no payments...nothing.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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Private property and inheritance are benefits, not rights.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

What happened to we the people's right of representation and our taxes that fund the process? We gave up our representative/democratic government after the implementation of The Patriot Act and the biggest bailout in history, TARP. Bankers and corporations can't stand on their own. Working people, the poor, and the elderly cannot overcome the cost of health care or insurance all alone anymore.
edit on 2-7-2014 by MOMof3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: luciddream
Only in America.. where Gun is more important than a person's health.

What am i not suprised.


only in America, where a mythical god's words, are more important than a female humans life....I am surprised that women continue to grovel and obey men, that tell them what they can and cannot do inside their own body.


Lets try it this way...every woman has a right to do as they wish with their own bodies. They can decide to have sex, unprotected sex...whatever. Their decision is their decision...but it isn't my responsibility to PAY FOR their decision. It also isn't my responsibility to pay for the eighth child they decide to have that they can't afford, or the car they can't afford, or the TV (yes...I have seen this one personally) they can't afford. We are not there to pay for other's decisions...we ARE there for pay for other's NEEDS. If you work, regardless of what work you can find, and you can't pay for your or your children's food...we help. If you are responsible and actually try...we will help. But we are also paying for many thousands of people who just sit on their ass or use our help as a second income. Again...I'VE SEEN IT.

If you are a woman and decide to have sex and decide not to use a condom...you pay for it. Much like if I decide to have sex...I buy a condom. Ohhh...and NEWS FLASH! It isn't expensive. Last time I checked...about $20 per month.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE




I, of course...stopped right there because listen (or reading) what a liar writes is a waste of time. Just because you believe something, doesn't make it a fact.



That's a very mature response from you. The last time I checked, posts are used to discuss the issue not personally attack and call someone names. So to answer your belief that access to health care is not a human right, I guess you would be the type of person who would believe a person dying on the street should be left alone because the poor sole couldn't afford healthcare.

If you consider yourself "civilized" you would be concerned about your fellow man. It's what separates us from animals. We ALL need to pay into a healthcare system because it benefits everyone. I hope you never lose your job or can't afford health care coverage and than find yourself one day needing life saving surgery for yourself or a loved one. In your view, if you can't afford to pay for healthcare that's just tough luck. That's a sad perspective for humanity as a whole.

We will ignore and justify spending trillions of dollars on a war machine to kill, maim and destroy infrastructure, yet people like you argue about spending tax payers money that saves lives! What's wrong with that picture?
I don't like the idea that a huge portion of our tax dollars goes toward weapons of mass destruction and military bases around the world. Yet this is controlled by government, but hey I guess those that think the government can't run anything right, sure does a pretty good job when it comes to creating weapons for war.

Instead of reading just the first line of a post, maybe you should have read the rest of it.




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