AZ residents at chemtrail hearing: ‘We’re being sprayed like we’re bugs and it’s really not

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posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: amazing



The problem is that there do appear to be Chemtrails that are separate to any clouds or contrails.

What is it which makes them appear to be separate? I've never been able to tell the difference.
edit on 6/28/2014 by Phage because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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I probably know a few folks at these meetings, having lived in Golden valley for over a decade. Some of those people introduced me to conspiracy theory. With that being said, I have always had a bit of a problem with the chemtrail theory. A big part of it relies on memory. . such as " we never saw trails like that before. " . Seems to me a whole lot of folks clearly remember Berenstein Bears also, but we know that aint the case.



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: amazing

No, it's just some people are itching to swallow any snake oil that gets pitched to them.

Contrails are sometimes barely visible at all, other times they disappear quickly, and sometimes they persist for hours. Sometimes they even spread out into cirrus sheets. It's really not difficult to figure out why. Temperature, humidity, wind.


I go back to my original post, it is that simple and not just a matter of snake oil. We know the government lies to us. We know they harm us secretly with plans like MKUltra that have been proven to be true. Why wouldn't we think that they are releasing chemicals in the air?

You also just summarized the key points of contrails, but again didn't really explain it clearly. Not saying that's your job, but this is the problem.



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: amazing



Why wouldn't we think that they are releasing chemicals in the air?

There's a difference between not believing they would and not believing they are.



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:00 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: amazing



Why wouldn't we think that they are releasing chemicals in the air?

There's a difference between not believing they would and not believing they are.


That's true. And I am playing a little bit of devil's advocate here but I keep seeing things posted here and in other places that give me pause. I wouldn't say I firmly believe that they are, but I don't understand contrails clearly enough to understand why some disperse and some don't and some seem to drift out endlessly for hours etc etc. I realize it's the temperature but I need a simple easy to understand explanation. it's not your job to give me one, I realize that, I'm just posting my concerns.

Why do two planes differ? Why does one give off a contrail and the other does not when from the ground they appear to be at the same altitude? And if they are at different altitudes what is the difference in temperature between a few hundred feet or a couple of thousand?

From my research online it appears that the main reason for contrails is actually engine type and whether the air is dry or not? That's why two planes at the same altitude will have different contrails.
edit on 28-6-2014 by amazing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: amazing

No, it's just some people are itching to swallow any snake oil that gets pitched to them.

Contrails are sometimes barely visible at all, other times they disappear quickly, and sometimes they persist for hours. Sometimes they even spread out into cirrus sheets. It's really not difficult to figure out why. Temperature, humidity, wind.


We know the government lies to us.[...] Why wouldn't we think that they are releasing chemicals in the air?

Uh, because the government are people and they are breathing the same air you are? Or does your local senator wear a gas mask?


You also just summarized the key points of contrails, but again didn't really explain it clearly. Not saying that's your job, but this is the problem.

Come on, it's hardly complicated. Exhaust gases contain water vapour, right? Water vapour is invisible unless it condenses into liquid water.

Next time you see two planes, one giving off a contrail and one not, fire up FlightRadar24 or something like that and check the altitudes. Check a weather map. Check the soundings. You might learn something.
edit on 28-6-2014 by Rob48 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: vethumanbeing
You live in a desert state and you get dust on your shrubs? Wow.

Do you know the typical Al content by mass of soil in the desert states of the USA, by the way?

Clay, decomposing granite and talc; none of which is reflective. Wind speeds not increased, I have lived here off and on for 35 years and never experienced this phenomenon until the peculiar designs in the sky (last 3 years) began to appear. When they do, the sky is not blue anymore; it has a white sheen.



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: amazing

I realize it's the temperature but I need a simple easy to understand explanation. it's not your job to give me one, I realize that, I'm just posting my concerns.
It's not so much the temperature as the humidity. I know that sounds sort of like a joke but it's true. Temperatures are usually cold enough to produce contrails (persistent or otherwise) at flight altitudes. The main factor that determines if contrails form (and persist) is the level of humidity.


Why do two planes differ? Why does one give off a contrail and the other does not when from the ground they appear to be at the same altitude? And if they are at different altitudes what is the difference in temperature between a few hundred feet or a couple of thousand?
More modern and efficient jet engines are prone to produce contrails under conditions that older engines might not. But judging altitude from the ground for planes that are 6 or 7 miles in the sky is not really possible. And yes, the humidity levels (and temperatures) can vary in quite thin layers. A plane a one altitude can very easily be flying in conditions which are conducive to persistent contrails while one at a slightly different altitude may not.
edit on 6/28/2014 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:07 PM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
When they do, the sky is not blue anymore; it has a white sheen.


Seriously, it's been a couple of years that the sky just isn't clear blue.
Always a light hazy white film...

But it's for our own good although, not that we should question authorities!



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing
I said do you know the typical Al content?

Al, aluminium. Or aluminum if you prefer.

Soil in the western US typically contains over 7 percent aluminium by mass. Or about 74,000 parts per million, on average. That's why I laugh when people get exercised over a few hundred parts per million of aluminium in their precious "chemtrail fallout"!
edit on 28-6-2014 by Rob48 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:14 PM
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This is the same state that keeps electing Joe Arpaio. Should we be surprised?



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

The Great State of Arizona doesn't elect Joe. . the voters of Maricopa county do. Care to try again?



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:26 PM
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A local news story on the topic at hand....
kdminer.com...



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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originally posted by: azdaze
A local news story on the topic at hand....
kdminer.com...


A key paragraph:


What wasn't discussed is whether the elevated levels of heavy metals some people have is not the result of what falls from the skies today, but what fell from the skies about 70 years ago when the Kingman area was home to a gunnery range.


Why don't they stop tilting at windmills in the sky and look a bit closer to home. Literally?



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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What astonishes me is that when ever the subject of chem/contrails comes up; you get the same debunkers insulting the members of ATS that have a different opinion. That in and of itself points to some kind of conspiracy. Are they working in concert with one another, do they have some sort of debunking network focused on chemtrails?

Why the passion and vitriol? Who really cares what people believe? I doubt if any minds will be changed by insults or arrogance.

I can't think of another subject that elicits that type of reaction except perhaps Sandy Hook.... curious....
edit on 28-6-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: olaru12
Or the Moon Landings.
Or 911
Or HAARP
Or evolution
Or global warming
Or...
edit on 6/28/2014 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: Phage
You left out reptillians, birth certificates, communists, socialists, and a bunch of other stuff



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: azdaze

That's the point of the ellipsis.
I guess "etc." would have been a better choice.



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
What astonishes me is that when ever the subject of chem/contrails comes up; you get the same debunkers insulting the members of ATS that have a different opinion.

I haven't seen people insulting members. Insulting a patently ridiculous theory, yes, and insulting the sort of people who would go to a meeting about a made-up boogeyman, sure.

This is only the second chemtrail thread I've ever commented on — I normally stay way from topics like this and 9/11 — but it seems quite polite to me.


Why the passion and vitriol? Who really cares what people believe?

Why care what people believe? Because these people might be voting! Not that that worries me in this case. But some people believe in facts, believe in science, and dislike the way that cranks and anti-intellectualism are trying to take hold in the mainstream.

It's almost like creationists (and you can bet this Arizona crowd are Bible thumpers to a man) are trying to prove their case by pushing intellectual evolution into reverse


So yeah, that's why some members like to tell people who believe in stupid stuff that the stuff they believe in is stupid.
edit on 28-6-2014 by Rob48 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2014 @ 07:16 PM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Kratos40
. BTW its hotter than hell here.


This is exactly the sort of ignorance that lines the pockets of chemtrail promoters. The surface temp when I flew over Tucson today was 102F. That is hot, although arguably not quite as hot as hell since the boiling point of brimstone is 832.28F. At FL450 (45,000 feet) where I was, it was -66F. And since I was using INS to proceed "Direct HPN, I was not on what some people think is "regular commercial flightpath" like J2 or J-104, which are East-West or J-11 or J-92, which are North-South. And I was making contrails. I looked.





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