Scottish independence: Barack Obama backs 'strong and united' UK

a reply to: Freeborn

What form of governance would the islands take up though?
If they had the oil wealth , watch how quickly they would be invaded

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Scotland demands independence from Scotland Shocker...eh, wait...what?

Orkney Islanders in " We Are Not Scottish" Shocker

www.ft.com...

Cornwall demands freedom from England Shocker.
Cornish Nationalism
Free Cornish Army

If they want it they can have it as far as i am concerned.
So i take it you feel the same about Orkney & Shetland ( and all that lovely oil revenue)

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Freeborn

Agreed. I was simply being sarcastic.

MODS - see

even Beezer needs an official

SAR
CSM

icon. Would save a lot of misunderstanding.

As to the OP. Obama is the worst excuse for a President our nation has ever had.

As an American I apologize, from the nearly half of us who did not vote for him, and from half of the people who did vote for him but wished they hadn't. He is a total scr_w up as a president.

originally posted by: sapien82
How would the islanders process their oil wealth with absolutely no infrastructure apart from the gas processing plant in the Shetlands , they have no way to process that oil without relying on the already built pipelines to Aberdeen
it would be quite difficult to get that in place without having to go into some lengthy legal deals with dodgy politicians.

They would do the same i would expect as Nigeria. Set up joint venture companies with such as B.P., Shell, Chevron, Exxon-Mobil etc.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Scotland demands independence from Scotland Shocker...eh, wait...what?

Orkney Islanders in " We Are Not Scottish" Shocker

www.ft.com...

Cornwall demands freedom from England Shocker.
Cornish Nationalism
Free Cornish Army

If they want it they can have it as far as i am concerned.

So you are quite happy to see a part of England leaving England but for some mad reason the Scots need to be part of the UK. i wonder what that reason is...it wouldn't be black and sticky would it.

a reply to: sapien82

How would the islanders process their oil wealth with absolutely no infrastructure apart from the gas processing plant in the Shetlands ,....

I guess by investment from private companies who I'm sure would fund such an enterprise.

..... they have no way to process that oil without relying on the already built pipelines to Aberdeen

Well I guess they'd use those pipelines until an alternative was available.....obviously at a price.

..... it would be quite difficult to get that in place without having to go into some lengthy legal deals with dodgy politicians.

Unfortunately such is the way of the world - dodgy deals, amoral and corrupt politicians and unscrupulous businessmen and bankers all go hand in hand.
The UK is far from unique in this respect - and neither would an independent Scotland, Orkneys, Shetlands or Western Isles.

As for the pound, why the hell cant Scotland continue using the pound since our nation helped create the empire which gave the pound its value, its just as much ours as it is the English, Welsh and Northern Irish.

Because its called Great British Pound and as an independent Scotland would no longer be a part of 'Great Britain' it would not be able to use its currency.
And why would you want to?
Use a currency that is 100% reliant on and controlled by the UK and the bankers based in London - surely being free from those is the whole point of Scottish independence?

I'm quite happy for everyone to be together as us Earthlings should stick together ,....

You and me too brother.

......but only in a system that is fair , and the one we currently have is so far removed from any sense of fair or equal its criminal ,

I agree wholeheartedly with you - I just think the best chance we have of effecting real and positive change and turning this country and union into the caring and progressive entity that it should be is by remaining together and standing united against those who have controlled and exploited us ALL for far too long.

.....so hopefully we in Scotland get our independence create a better system then invite England , Wales and Northern Ireland into a Union with us and ditch Westminster and the city state of London

If only my friend.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Scotland demands independence from Scotland Shocker...eh, wait...what?

Orkney Islanders in " We Are Not Scottish" Shocker

www.ft.com...

Cornwall demands freedom from England Shocker.
Cornish Nationalism
Free Cornish Army

If they want it they can have it as far as i am concerned.

So you are quite happy to see a part of England leaving England but for some mad reason the Scots need to be part of the UK. i wonder what that reason is...it wouldn't be black and sticky would it.

When have i stated that i am not happy for Scotland to leave the U.K. ? Please point me in that direction.
I am on the fence when it comes to Scottish independence. It's the Scots tune to call. I have just pointed out on this thread about, The islands off Scotland wanting their own vote on independence or not.
So are you going to answer my question ? Ae you happy with Orkney & Shetland voting on being independent from Scotland? A straight yes or no answer will suffice.

a reply to: crazyewok

You have to understand that when Obama reads about situations like this in the news papers it gives him that opportunity to show off his world porous and fix it like he has everything else he inserts himself into.

Awwwww yes the infamous Obama, first America, then the world ..........red lines to follow as you implied.

a reply to: Freeborn
Population Orkneys 20,100 (2005)
Population Shetland 23,167 (2011)
Population W. Isles 26,502

Grand total 69,769 out of 5.5 million Scots....and how many of those actually want independence I wonder? It's all smoke and mirrors to try and convolute the argument for Scotlands independence.

I stand by what I previously stated having visited and spoken to people in those areas, and the population figures stand by themselves.

Rainbows
Jane

originally posted by: angelchemuel
a reply to: Freeborn
Population Orkneys 20,100 (2005)
Population Shetland 23,167 (2011)
Population W. Isles 26,502

Grand total 69,769 out of 5.5 million Scots....and how many of those actually want independence I wonder? It's all smoke and mirrors to try and convolute the argument for Scotlands independence.

I stand by what I previously stated having visited and spoken to people in those areas, and the population figures stand by themselves.

Rainbows
Jane

So the people of The Falkland Islands who voted in a referendum to remain a British dependance was meaningless then?

Population Of Falkland Islands 2,952 ( 2007)

a reply to: Freeborn

I think you talk a lot of sense and have a real understanding of the issues but I also think that you are wrong when you say that we have a better hope of changing things if we stay together, it is the exact opposite.

I will vote for independence, not because I care about all that nationalism nonsense, but because it may be easier to change the system with a smaller population. Who knows, if we make a success of it then we may serve as an example for you to follow.

You should cheer us on my friend...that we might gain a little freedom from the corruption that rules. Think about it, we have an opportunity to start again.

I can see that in a way it might be more difficult to change things in England with all the entrenched, established and traditional institutions that hold power.

Salmond of course is singing the song of keeping the pound and joining Europe but really that is detrimental to his own cause. I don't think he really cares though as in or out he wins.

If ever there was a time for a country to gain independence it is now. I say that because, if we look at the current mood towards politicians, political parties and the financial institutions etc, then perhaps real change is viable in a small country.

a reply to: alldaylong
PMSL......and you think those oil company's are going to be bothered about a few thousand islanders. The oils capital of Europe is Aberdeen.....I really don't think those company's will be re-locating to the Orkneys in a hurry.....they can swing their big bat just as efficiently from there whether the Islanders got independence or not.
You also need to check out what the actual territorial waters would be for the Islanders compare to where the rigs are.

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: midicon

If you choose to take the independence route then I will wish you well and sincerely hope that you are right and it will be easier to effect positive change in an a newly independent nation.
But I suspect that may be wishful thinking - or maybe I've become far too cynical with advancing years.

Could Scotland prosper without EU membership and being 'free' from London's shackles?

I honestly don't know - one things for certain it would be very, very hard and not the idyllic land of milk and honey that Salmond et al allege - there would be some very difficult and hard times ahead for Scotland under such circumstances.
I think Scotland would be remarkably brave, not necessarily wise, if you opt for such a future.

One of the unfortunate things about the whole debate is how those on the 'Yes' campaign seek to label everyone in the opposite camp as being somehow 'unpatriotic' and weak willed etc simply for having a different opinion.

I fear that regardless of the outcome there will be some bitter recriminations after the referendum and there will be many relationships that will need mending before Scotland can move forward.

I know that nearly every single Scotsman and women I know who are currently living in other parts of the UK are absolutely disgusted that they are being denied their right to vote, something I believe Salmond and The Nats insisted on.

a reply to: angelchemuel

Regardless of the oil.....do you believe that the people of the Orkneys, Shetland and Western Isles should be denied to express their Right to Self-Determination if they so wish?

If you don't believe that they would have the right could you please explain exactly why that would be?

I understand that those who do are probably in the minority......at present.

a reply to: Freeborn

I'm sorry if my post implied that they shouldn't be given the vote.
If the Islanders who still want to break away from Scotland are still of the same mind when/if Scotland achieves independence then give them the vote. I see no reason not to.

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

No need for apologies, I was just seeking clarification - my comprehension skills can be somewhat lacking at times, especially in this heat.

I think I need some 'refreshments' - alas I have to go pick up the Grandson - but it may be a long walk home, via a beer garden or two.

a reply to: Freeborn

I know that nearly every single Scotsman and women I know who are currently living in other parts of the UK are absolutely disgusted that they are being denied their right to vote, something I believe Salmond and The Nats insisted on.

Chances are they would have voted against independence. I think all scots should be allowed to vote regardless of location.
Having said that...I don't think we will gain independence, it's a step too far for most people.

Scotland could prosper I have no doubt...with the right management. Would it get it...who knows.

I have lived in England and think it's great. People have always been nice and I have never understood this whole patriotic thing anyway.


And to address the OP...


Perhaps Obama will send John Kerry over...he could hand out doughnuts and stuff...

a reply to: Freeborn

You enjoy your 'pit stops' with your grandson sir. I'll be going for a lazy bike ride later!
Rainbows
Jane

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Scotland demands independence from Scotland Shocker...eh, wait...what?

Orkney Islanders in " We Are Not Scottish" Shocker

www.ft.com...

Cornwall demands freedom from England Shocker.
Cornish Nationalism
Free Cornish Army

If they want it they can have it as far as i am concerned.

So you are quite happy to see a part of England leaving England but for some mad reason the Scots need to be part of the UK. i wonder what that reason is...it wouldn't be black and sticky would it.

So are you going to answer my question ? Ae you happy with Orkney & Shetland voting on being independent from Scotland? A straight yes or no answer will suffice.

It's a hypothetical question because it aint gonna happen. the orkney's and shetlands are Scottish Islands the people born there are Scottish.

This is an easy one.If the Scots want you out then gell the hell out.