Baker Forced to make gay wedding cakes, undergo sensitivity training, after losing lawsuit

originally posted by: Annee

You're reaching. There are bakeries that advertise novelty cakes and will make whatever you want.

This baker made wedding cakes.

He can not deny something he makes for other customers.

Now he makes no wedding cakes. That's equality.

Your idea of equality effectively excludes Christians from one of the biggest industries in the nation.

Forcing a Christian to make a cake for a gay wedding is no different than forcing a Muslim to eat pork.

I hope he spit in all of those cake batters

It occurs to me that debates similar to this were more than likely
abundant around the time of the civil rights movements, most
of those who chose to segregate themselves probably felt as if
they were being forced to serve people they did not like for
whatever reason and many of them even claimed religious reasons
for doing so.

My grandfather has always believed that African
Americans were blighted by god for some reason or the other
i never bothered to ask why, he is just crazy in my eyes. I
don't see how this is too much different really, instead of
black and white water fountains they just want strait and gay
water fountains....

Meh freedom is something i will always be on the side of but
where does that line get drawn really? My business has the
policy of the right to refuse service to anyone but that reason
is understood to mean that race, religion, sexual orientation
should not be the reason and if it is we could face a law suit.

Believe me there are many times i wanted to refuse service
to some of the religious nuts that come in here and hand out
those little pamphlets about hating islam because christianity
is right and so on but i don't because i know better, i just
let them do their thing and smile.

The problem with allowing freedom to rule to the point of
segregation is that anyone for any reason could then end
up on the losing end of that equation and i for one do not
want to contend with being refused services because i am
not religious.....

a reply to: Annee

He wouldn't sell them a cake he sells to other customers because GAY was involved.

What the heck are you talking about?

GAY wasn't involved.

Let's say a KKK member and a non-member comes in.

Both order cakes for a KKK wedding.

According to YOU, the baker would deny the service to KKK member but not to non-member. That would be discriminatory.

The REALITY IS.... the baker would deny BOTH OF THEM!

AMERICA! AMERICA! AMERICA!!!!!.....Land of the free and brave?

lmfao! ......free? just has long as you do as you are told!

a reply to: Annee

He wouldn't sell them a cake he sells to other customers because GAY was involved.

That's discrimination.

You are so silly,.

I can guarantee you that if i go in his bakery and ask him to make a wedding cake for same-sex ceremony he would not serve me (I am straight)

Its not like they are being asked to bake a 4 foot cake penis.

You run a business, theres no room for customer discrimination.

Lets get this right...the baker (according to the court) is not allowed to discriminate against gays by turning down the work. But...the court decided it IS OK for the gay couple and the court to discriminate against the baker's religious beliefs?????? Really???? How is that equal, fair or legal? Oh...right...they don't want EQUAL RIGHTS...they want SPECIAL RIGHTS. Welcome to Progressive America. THEY will decide who can be discriminated against, but discrimination WILL NOT GO AWAY!

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

We dont live in a world where our elected governments make laws, religion has nothing to do with it.

If i like to wear red hats and the sandwich shop owner hates red hats, why should he ban me from giving him my trade?
Should he be allowed to?

No dogs or no motorcycle helmets is one thing, no gays? Come on, what century are you living in?

originally posted by: Biigs
Its not like they are being asked to bake a 4 foot cake penis.

You run a business, theres no room for customer discrimination.

I disagree. If you're talking about Walmart or some giant corporation...fine. But if you're talking about a small business owner...I couldn't disagree more. What if a drug addict walks in, or a mafia member, or a pedophile. Why shouldn't the owner be allowed to decide whom he is willing to work for? Or even if he simply doesn't like them. Is a contractor allowed to say...naw...I don't want that job. And for god's sake...it is HIS BUSINESS. If he doesn't want to work with or for someone, why is he being forced to? If I apply for a job and then find out the company is owned by a gay owner...can I decide not to work there or should I be forced to take the job if offered? This is stupid and as small as it may seem, this is a huge injustice to everyone's freedom.

How about this...I decide I want to make signs for a protest AGAINST a gay parade. I go to to a gay graphics designer and printer and want him to make the signs. Does he have to? Does he have to do some work that is against HIS beliefs? If not...why does this baker have to do something against his beliefs? Oh yeah...wrong beliefs I guess.

It is really scary when we decide that we can dictate what beliefs are allowed and which aren't.

originally posted by: Willtell
But are we ready to say 5000 years of religious ideas about marriage ARE ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THESE EXTREME CASES.


The baker isn't a church but a church is a business. And the baker may represent the ideas of the church. Also he could have a church IN HIS BAKERY.

Not just that you don't know history, but you don't know much about your religion, do you?

As for rest of your post - baker probably would love to have a church in his bakery, so that he does not have to pay taxes like religious 'holy' ones... That is just a BS of comment there you got mate, it just does not make a sense, and I am sure that you don't even know what you like to say, all what is important is that is just opposite of human and caring...

Baker got what he deserves, I just hope lawsuit fees are astronomical...

originally posted by: Biigs
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

We dont live in a world where our elected governments make laws, religion has nothing to do with it.

If i like to wear red hats and the sandwich shop owner hates red hats, why should he ban me from giving him my trade?
Should he be allowed to?

No dogs or no motorcycle helmets is one thing, no gays? Come on, what century are you living in?

Ummm...this century. You are supporting forcing someone to do something they don't want to and something they don't have to do. He is baking cakes? He isn't saying he isn't willing to provide medical care.

One of you then please answer this from my earlier post:

I decide I want to make signs for a protest AGAINST a gay parade. I go to to a gay graphics designer and printer and want him to make the signs. Does he have to? Does he have to do some work that is against HIS beliefs? If not...why does this baker have to do something against his beliefs?

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Biigs
Its not like they are being asked to bake a 4 foot cake penis.

You run a business, theres no room for customer discrimination.

I disagree. If you're talking about Walmart or some giant corporation...fine. But if you're talking about a small business owner...I couldn't disagree more. What if a drug addict walks in, or a mafia member, or a pedophile. Why shouldn't the owner be allowed to decide whom he is willing to work for? Or even if he simply doesn't like them. Is a contractor allowed to say...naw...I don't want that job. And for god's sake...it is HIS BUSINESS. If he doesn't want to work with or for someone, why is he being forced to? If I apply for a job and then find out the company is owned by a gay owner...can I decide not to work there or should I be forced to take the job if offered? This is stupid and as small as it may seem, this is a huge injustice to everyone's freedom.

How about this...I decide I want to make signs for a protest AGAINST a gay parade. I go to to a gay graphics designer and printer and want him to make the signs. Does he have to? Does he have to do some work that is against HIS beliefs? If not...why does this baker have to do something against his beliefs? Oh yeah...wrong beliefs I guess.

It is really scary when we decide that we can dictate what beliefs are allowed and which aren't.

I get your point i really do.

But then whats to stop other people who dislike people who discriminate over trivial details, and then stop serving them.

Its just a foot in the door for all people to call anyone on anything they dont agree with and refuse business. No good can come of it, i agree with the court.

originally posted by: Biigs

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Biigs
Its not like they are being asked to bake a 4 foot cake penis.

You run a business, theres no room for customer discrimination.

I disagree. If you're talking about Walmart or some giant corporation...fine. But if you're talking about a small business owner...I couldn't disagree more. What if a drug addict walks in, or a mafia member, or a pedophile. Why shouldn't the owner be allowed to decide whom he is willing to work for? Or even if he simply doesn't like them. Is a contractor allowed to say...naw...I don't want that job. And for god's sake...it is HIS BUSINESS. If he doesn't want to work with or for someone, why is he being forced to? If I apply for a job and then find out the company is owned by a gay owner...can I decide not to work there or should I be forced to take the job if offered? This is stupid and as small as it may seem, this is a huge injustice to everyone's freedom.

How about this...I decide I want to make signs for a protest AGAINST a gay parade. I go to to a gay graphics designer and printer and want him to make the signs. Does he have to? Does he have to do some work that is against HIS beliefs? If not...why does this baker have to do something against his beliefs? Oh yeah...wrong beliefs I guess.

It is really scary when we decide that we can dictate what beliefs are allowed and which aren't.

I get your point i really do.

But then whats to stop other people who dislike people who discriminate over trivial details, and then stop serving them.

Its just a foot in the door for all people to call anyone on anything they dont agree with and refuse business. No good can come of it, i agree with the court.

And I understand your point. But...what is the result of forcing someone to do something against their beliefs? What does that accomplish? Anger? Hate? What you believe can/should never be dictated to you. And again...it is his business. If he is stupid enough to turn down business...let him fail. But take away his right to his religious beliefs...legally? Force a religious man to do something against (what he believes to be) against his God? What is next...force Muslims to eat pork?

I'm sorry, but this really has me disturbed. Right or wrong, whether you agree or not...this man believes in his God. He believes in the words written in the Bible. Heck, he may love God more than his family...God may be more important. Those may be his beliefs. I'm not like that...I don't really even believe in God. But to force a religious man to go against God? Is there anything worse you could do against this person? He may rather die that blatently go against his God...and some people sit there and say...yeah...I don't believe as he does, so force this guy to do it? WOW? Is that where we are?

Like I said...sorry. I'm done.

Oops...almost done. I think the word for that action is by definition...evil.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Their beliefs say dont do this and that, they say YOU dont do that, the law says gays and gay marriage is fine so whats the problem? By making a cake for a gay couple, you arnt saying gay marriage is ok nor does it make you a gay nor does it break any religious rules.

Like i said before, in no way or place does it say in the bible to shun people, it teaches tolerance and respect yet is ironically blamed for peoples strange interpretations.

a reply to: Biigs

Yes actually there is plenty of room. Now, whether or not you are willing to loose business is something both yourself and the market decides, but there is room to discriminate and do business with whomever you please.

I discriminate in one form or the other every single day.

I don't allow people into our business if they aren't wearing a shirt, no matter how much money they have in their pocket.

Many businesses have a sign on their door that they wont let you in their place of business if you have a concealed weapon - again, no matter how much money they might have spent there, not even an off duty cop who is carrying is allowed in.

We discriminate daily, so... when does that discrimination cross a line... do I get to sue the business who wont allow me inside to shop when I am carrying a legally owned and registered gun with all appropriate licenses? You would probably say no, but how is that any different than saying I refuse to make a wedding cake for a gay couple?

It's just a different form of choosing what type of person we will do business with. But businesses do it every day.

An landlord can refuse to rent an apartment to someone who has ever been convicted of a felony.

Walk in to any one of a number of shops on Rodeo drive dressed like a low class cheap whore and see how much you are discriminated against. The amount of money in your pocket wont matter...

it wasn't the TYPE of business that was at question it was USE of the requested item, that was at question. he was otherwise willing to sell them anything else they wanted. he didn't deny them service, he denied them USE of a service of a particular kind.

personally, i find the whole thing to be ludicrous. he's not going to stop them from loving each other, nor stop them from marrying each other in another state. his cake will not make or break the event any more than a bunch of tissue flowers would make or break it. every other part of the event is sold to these people regardless. the cake was still sold to them. it wasn't even for an actual wedding as they couldn't get married in colorado at the time. it was for a celebration of their union.