Baker Forced to make gay wedding cakes, undergo sensitivity training, after losing lawsuit

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Bone75
I have an idea... Christian themed wedding cake.

Gays are people, just like everyone else.

There are many gay Christians. Many gays want to be married in their church.

Many churches of all denominations welcome their gay perishioners.

I'd say the majority of Christians now understand homosexuality is an inherent birthright.

NOM tried to import anti-gay Christians in Oregon to stop gay marriage, because they couldn't get enough local Christians.

I doubt you could get enough local Christians to support this extremist Christian baker.

And there you go--the free market would decide this without state interference.

originally posted by: Annee


I'd say the majority of Christians now understand homosexuality is an inherent birthright.

What the hell do you mean by "inherent birthright"?

a reply to: Annee

Any Church that would host a gay wedding should no longer be considered a Church, not a Christian Church anyways.

originally posted by: andr3w68
a reply to: Metallicus

It goes both ways. Sure no one should be able to make you. But the guy should have made the cake in the first place. Gay or not, he has the right to refuse service, but that doesn't mean he should use that right because someone is of a differing sexuality.

Let this be a lesson to business owners: If you are going to refuse to do business with someone, never tell them the reason why. Just inform them that you cannot serve them and leave it at that.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit

Let this be a lesson to business owners: If you are going to refuse to do business with someone, never tell them the reason why. Just inform them that you cannot serve them and leave it at that.

You have to have a legitimate reason. In this case the Christian does have a legitimate reason, but gays refuse to accept that reason as anything other than discrimination.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
I hardly ever turned down any jobs, only time I did was when the person was giving me the walkthrough for the estimate, we came to a little room. It was filled with nazi memorabilia, like a little museum or shrine or something. Other than that, if the person/people who I was doing the estimate for gave me attitude or whatever, on the estimate I at least tripled the normal price. If they said yes, at least I padded the job and knew I would be compensated for the eventual frustrations I would face working there. If they said no, oh well.

There are certain people I will never do work for, and no government entity will ever compel me to do so. I can see where the baker is coming from. I think the courts made the wrong decision. It sucks to be them christians though I guess. You will be forced by the government to participate in rituals that clash with your religion. Maybe one day their will be a balance struck, for now it's just the pendulum swung to the other extreme.

One thing you gay people need to keep in mind, people forced to participate in your ceremonies will not have their hearts in it, and you will likely get pisspoor job done. Something to chew on there, the activists are not doing you any favors really. When you get a lopsided cake, you will know why. When you get your wedding pictures back and half the heads are cut off, you will know why.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit

Let this be a lesson to business owners: If you are going to refuse to do business with someone, never tell them the reason why. Just inform them that you cannot serve them and leave it at that.

You have to have a legitimate reason. In this case the Christian does have a legitimate reason, but gays refuse to accept that reason as anything other than discrimination.

Okay, then. "I'm sorry, I am all booked up that week. Wedding season is very busy for me."

Problem solved.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit

Okay, then. "I'm sorry, I am all booked up that week. Wedding season is very busy for me."

Problem solved.

That's substituting one sin for another and if a Christian is willing to do that then he doesn't have an argument to begin with. The simple solution is," Sorry, nothing personal, but I don't make cakes for gay weddings. "

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit

Okay, then. "I'm sorry, I am all booked up that week. Wedding season is very busy for me."

Problem solved.

That's substituting one sin for another and if a Christian is willing to do that then he doesn't have an argument to begin with. The simple solution is," Sorry, nothing personal, but I don't make cakes for gay weddings. "

Then he gets sued again. Christians can lie, I don't know how to break it to you. If he wants to spare himself another lawsuit, he'll fib his a** off.

a reply to: Annee

How about a Muslim or Orthodox Jewish bakery though? They are even more likely to refuse baking a wedding cake for gay weddings.

originally posted by: lindalinda
a reply to: Annee

How about a Muslim or Orthodox Jewish bakery though? They are even more likely to refuse baking a wedding cake for gay weddings.

They are not subject to the same persecution as Christians in the US. Wait, was that too honest?

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
I hardly ever turned down any jobs, only time I did was when the person was giving me the walkthrough for the estimate, we came to a little room. It was filled with nazi memorabilia, like a little museum or shrine or something. Other than that, if the person/people who I was doing the estimate for gave me attitude or whatever, on the estimate I at least tripled the normal price. If they said yes, at least I padded the job and knew I would be compensated for the eventual frustrations I would face working there. If they said no, oh well.

There are certain people I will never do work for, and no government entity will ever compel me to do so. I can see where the baker is coming from. I think the courts made the wrong decision. It sucks to be them christians though I guess. You will be forced by the government to participate in rituals that clash with your religion. Maybe one day their will be a balance struck, for now it's just the pendulum swung to the other extreme.

One thing you gay people need to keep in mind, people forced to participate in your ceremonies will not have their hearts in it, and you will likely get pisspoor job done. Something to chew on there, the activists are not doing you any favors really. When you get a lopsided cake, you will know why. When you get your wedding pictures back and half the heads are cut off, you will know why.

And might I add...if you force someone to do something they don't want to do, as is the case here...the will have REASON to dislike or hate you. Right or wrong. That statement is a simple fact. And I think this is part of the problem with the gay community. They don't only/always ask for equal rights...they sometimes stick it in people's faces and dare them to disagree...or...they force them to do something where they could simply say...OK...you lost my business...bye. THAT in my opinion would have been the right choice followed by spreading the word that this guy doesn't want to serve gay people. Simple...logical...no forcing. But no...lets force him to do this = hate.

What the hell. So a KKK member goes into a black owned and operated bakery and wants a cake for his "gathering". Will that baker be forced to make one? A skinhead goes into a jewish bakery...a Palestinian goes into a Jewish bakery...does this rule apply to everyone? Or just the people you disagree with.

Since everyone is so upset because making the cake went against his religious ideals I think we should go back in time before our forefathers created America, to the time when the church ruled you know when people were raped and tortured and killed in the name of Jesus cause they were educated or could count etc cause America was created so everyone could have there own religion

And I hate to break it to everyone but America has never been a Christian nation it was started as the exact opposite

a reply to: Logan123

Christian or not, this country was founded on the principles of religion. I guess everyone forgets what it says on our money.... "In God we trust".

No it wasn't America was started on Masonic principles not religious just because our money says in god we trust doesn't equate to religion just acknowledging a creator

a reply to: Logan123

You can't believe in a God without having a religion. You do understand what the word religion means right?

Dictionary
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

Masonic teachings are just as much a religion as any other. No one believes in God without a moral code governed by that belief, which is the definition of religion. Anyone who's studied the masonic teachings, knows the strict nature of their "codes". Not only that, but the second part of that definition defines a religion as nothing more then adherence to a set of fundamental beliefs by a collective.

a reply to: Annee

Tell that to every felon who is turned down for an apartment rental because they are felons. Are felons second class citizens compared to homosexuals? Do they not deserve a place to live too?

Tell that to the average of three people a day who get removed from my husbands place of employment and the average of 1 or 2 who get asked to leave my place of business...

According to you, no one can choose who they do business with, or allow inside their business. The reasons why we kick them out, or refuse to rent to them, or refuse to do business with them, should not be mattering then right?

I expect to see YOU picketing and protesting for the rights of felons and bums everywhere.

Question, say a photographer doesn't want to photograph a wedding of a woman and man who are already pregnant, because it goes against their religious beliefs. Should they be forced to do so because someone asked them to? How about the baker? Say he is devout whatever, and doesn't want to bake a cake with a wedding topper that has a pregnant woman on it. But, they are a white hetero couple. Will these examples be covered?

Whoever bakes your cake for a wedding is a part of the wedding itself. Same with a photographer. I'd personally rather do a gay wedding than a straight wedding, but, not much for wedding photography in general. Will it become I MUST do all weddings if I do one?

This is my only objection to the ruling. At what point do business owners have to sacrifice their own beliefs? Its really not a gay issue to me, but, a business one. As far as I am concerned, gay, straight, married, not, black, white, whatever, I just want to deal with the people I want to, as I provide a very personal service. I have not turned anyone away for any reason beyond I was not going to be able to work well with *them*. (The one most notably turned away was a spoiled white girl with way more attitude than I wanted to suffer through) I would HATE to be forced to deal with someone because I must by law.

Bakers, wedding planners, photographers, ect; are just different than Walmart or your local eatery. They are dealing with you on a very personal level.