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Baker Forced to make gay wedding cakes, undergo sensitivity training, after losing lawsuit

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posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 08:57 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: buster2010

As it has been asked many times in this thread. WOULD the baker make a cake for same-sex ceremony for a STRAIGHT person?

YES or NO?


Who cares?

It's simply none of the bakers business.




posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: Annee

I said inside the house of worship. Not who presides over the ceremony.

If this is right what prevents a gay couple from demanding from a church that they get married in said church?

Who presides over the ceremony doesn’t matter



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: Annee

I don't think you really understand?




This baker made wedding cakes.

He can not deny something he makes for other customers.


First of all same-sex MARRIAGE is illegal in Colorado.

Second of all, the wedding cakes he make are for LEGAL and STRAIGHT weddings.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 08:59 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: buster2010

As it has been asked many times in this thread. WOULD the baker make a cake for same-sex ceremony for a STRAIGHT person?

YES or NO?

The answer is NO.
Whether the person is straight or not is irrelevant. He would deny it simply because he said that same sex marriage is against his faith. A business in Colorado cannot use faith as a reason to deny service to a person because it is discrimination.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:02 PM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien



First of all same-sex MARRIAGE is illegal in Colorado. Second of all, the wedding cakes he make are for LEGAL and STRAIGHT weddings.

The marriage was precisely legal. They didn't get married in Colorado. So he still doesn't have the right to deny service. Also your adding STRAIGHT weddings just shows that you do know it was an act of discrimination.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:03 PM
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a reply to: Annee




Pastors, Rabbis, Ministers, Priests are not required to marry anyone they don't want to.

Sometimes marriages are denied because of divorce, domestic violence, or even if the clergy thinks the couple is too young.


Yes, but these things are in a category of their own. Homosexuality is considered a civil rights issue whereas divorce is a faith-based issue. A pastor would be in hot water if he refused a black or racially mixed couple. In fact, a real bible-based, Christian church would probably reconsider the pastor's role within their church. The government would most certainly intervene as well. It won't be long before pastors are required by man's law to wed homosexuals. Any pastor worth his salt won't comply, but that won't stop the state from trying.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:04 PM
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a reply to: buster2010



Whether the person is straight or not is irrelevant. He would deny it simply because he said that same sex marriage is against his faith. A business in Colorado cannot use faith as a reason to deny service to a person because it is discrimination.


What???? How do you make that into a discrimination?

Ok, what if a KKK member comes in and requests a cake for KKK wedding? What then? Must he be FORCED to make for them? Must he be forced to take sensitivity classes to understand KKK's ways?



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:05 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Annee

I said inside the house of worship. Not who presides over the ceremony.

If this is right what prevents a gay couple from demanding from a church that they get married in said church?

Who presides over the ceremony doesn’t matter


This is off topic. No church can be forced to marry anyone.

However, plenty of churches are waiting with excitement to welcome gay weddings.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:06 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Annee

I said inside the house of worship. Not who presides over the ceremony.

If this is right what prevents a gay couple from demanding from a church that they get married in said church?

Who presides over the ceremony doesn’t matter

The government is not allowed to pass a law that infers with the Church. So no they cannot order a Church to marry gays. But this baker isn't a Church is he?



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien

I already asked this pages ago. No one gave a good answer.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: JohnFisher
A pastor would be in hot water if he refused a black or racially mixed couple.


This did happen a few years back.

The pastor was within his legal rights to deny marriage because of mixed race.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Yeah.

Granted it's a complex issue. People are still hung on same-sex ceremony/wedding VS. homosexuality.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:12 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Willtell

Yeah.

Granted it's a complex issue. People are still hung on same-sex ceremony/wedding VS. homosexuality.


No, you are hung up on it.

I'm very clear that this baker violated the law in Colorado.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:12 PM
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a reply to: buster2010




The government is not allowed to pass a law that infers with the Church. So no they cannot order a Church to marry gays. But this baker isn't a Church is he?


Yes, the baker is the church, or at least he is part of the church. If you read and understand Christian scripture, then you'll know that church is not a physical location. No building or place is church. Church is the nation of Christianity, i.e., we ARE the church. christianity.about.com...

So again, yes, the baker is the church.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:14 PM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien



How do you make that into a discrimination?

This is fairly easy to determine. Why is he against same sex marriages? Because it something that is done by homosexuals only. Straight people don't have same sex marriages do they? He is denying the cake because of the peoples sexuality that makes it discrimination.



Ok, what if a KKK member comes in and requests a cake for KKK wedding? What then? Must he be FORCED to make for them? Must he be forced to take sensitivity classes to understand KKK's ways?

Is the KKK a race, gender, or sexual preference? No it's not so that wouldn't be viewed a discrimination.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:16 PM
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a reply to: Annee



No, you are hung up on it.


LOL you are funny. No not what I meant.

For some reason some people think going against gay marriages is going against homosexuality.

Believe it or not some people are against gay marriages NOT BECAUSE they think homosexuality is wrong.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:17 PM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: Metallicus

I'd have a very simple answer to the court on that "deal". I'd hit the judges/commissioners right between the eyes with my ring of door keys and tell him to run the damn bakery, they seem to know the business better than anyone and it's not worth it to bake a cake anymore.

What absurdity. If they WANT private business to know they have no freedom, this will do it. That alone is enough to get new business to say 'screw you' to the whole system in those cases where hassle would already have been pushing it. (Hassle is at new heights these days, as it is)

Having attempted to make a success of business a few times in my life? I think the "system" violated the rights of one private citizen to insure the perceived rights of another. A trade off the feds really shouldn't be making outside clear matters of constitutional principle and black letter law, IMO.
P

Who is John Galt? Or rather, where?



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:19 PM
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a reply to: Annee




This did happen a few years back.

The pastor was within his legal rights to deny marriage because of mixed race.


That's sad. To be honest, I'm not really a big fan of mixed racial marriage (or the race card), but that's more from my desire to conserve my heritage (my roots). I'm engaged to a woman with Celtic roots like my own. However, from a faith-based perspective, the pastor should have been disciplined from within the church. If I ever become a pastor, which is a definite possibility, I'll never deny or judge a racially mixed couple seeking marriage because of their race. How does that bring glory to God? It doesn't.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
If the homosexual couple was told they had to undergo "sensitivity training" in regards to their attitude to the baker, not one person defending this ruling would claim that was right.

The hypocrisy is overwhelming.


What did the homosexual couple do wrong aside from disclose their sexuality to the baker?

I also don't agree with anyone having to be forced to undergo any sort of education outside of their own personal choice, but come on - what did the couple actually do wrong?

I can tell you what the baker did wrong. Maybe people should start actively discriminating by placing big signs in their windows? It would make things easier and we'd all be able to tell who is a nazi and who is not.


You're kidding, right? Did you read even the header for the thread?? They took him to court, forced him to participate in their illegal "wedding", and he's got to undergo "sensitivity training", which is nothing short of telling him how he's supposed to think. Where is the tolerance for his point of view? For his beliefs? Oh, that's right; there isn't any. They were wrong to push this. They could have chosen another baker, but they decided to force their position on him instead. That is what they did wrong. They and the judge need "sensitivity training" for demanding this Christian man abandon his beliefs.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 09:20 PM
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originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Annee

I said inside the house of worship. Not who presides over the ceremony.

If this is right what prevents a gay couple from demanding from a church that they get married in said church?

Who presides over the ceremony doesn’t matter

The government is not allowed to pass a law that infers with the Church. So no they cannot order a Church to marry gays. But this baker isn't a Church is he?


You sure about that?

What about the guy in Utah, sitting in jail as we speak.

The bottom line is that the state is going to impose on religious people certain laws that conflict with their faith.

That in itself isn’t unreasonable, since for example, some religious people interpret their religion where they have crazy doctrines in their faith such as stoning people, having sex with underage girls, or not giving children life-saving medicine. Most agree the state should interfere in these extreme cases.

But are we ready to say 5000 years of religious ideas about marriage ARE ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THESE EXTREME CASES.


The baker isn't a church but a church is a business. And the baker may represent the ideas of the church. Also he could have a church IN HIS BAKERY.



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