Have you heard about this Savior?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Umm. . . you do realize that anyone that cares to can go back and re-read all the posts in this thread? You know you're really screwed if they do . . . don't you?

Yes, you did clearly respond to AftIn, but you ALSO said "I don't see any evidence of research in this thread." Live with it. That is what you said.

I don't know if you're being purposely obtuse and dishonest or not. However, anyone who cares can go back and see exactly what was written, to whom it was written and in what context it was written. They can make their own judgment.

I'm sure that there were Greek and Roman gods who were considered saviors - and the 1000s of hours that I have put in were not all about Asclepius. So - you lied. You weren't trying to help me make my case.

I not only said that I was trying to help you make your point or at least improve the case you were trying to make for it, but I offered some legitimate suggestions in how you might get to where you were trying to get with Asclepius, (And at this point in time have still failed to do), by going in a different direction.

You might have more luck finding references to Zeus as "Savior" that occur prior to Jesus being referred to as Savior, than you have had with Asclepius. If you think it's that important to demonstrate that someone was referred to as "Savior" prior to Jesus, then you might want to start there. Or you could start with any of the many others among the Greek pantheon that bore the title "Soter" . . . there are lots of them. It's entirely possible that some of them were referred to as "Savior" prior to Christ, but I still don't see any evidence that Asclepius was.

So I didn't lie at all, I did try to help you. But I never pretended that I thought establishing that someone else was called "Savior" prior to Christ was a point worth making or a "gotcha" moment for Christians.

Though, I'm loss as to why you think it's a point worth making or how it qualifies as a "gotcha" moment for Christians.

As I said already, anyone who cares can re-read the thread and make their own judgment. I guess you'll just have to hope that they don't re-read it, but rather that they accept your latest off the wall BS at face value.

a reply to: jmdewey60

You know, there are a set of books by Eusebius on "The Preparation For the Gospel".

I didn't know about them prior to the research I did on the Asclepius myth for this thread. I did read an excerpt about what he had to say about Asclepius & Aristedes, but I didn't post it because it didn't really seem to me like it would have any traction with people that aren't Christians.

Thanks for mentioning it though, I've added it to my "to be read" list.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

The problem is that this is pretty much meaningless information. That is what william is trying to point out. There were deities that people considered to be saviors prior to Jesus. So what? There were healing God's, etc. What is your point? How does this prove anything, and why is it of any significance?

Yes, Seraph that is one of the points I'm making. In my more charitable moments during the course of this thread, I get the feeling that Buzzy thinks that well read and thoughtful Christians are going to fall apart and abandon their faith if she can show them that someone else was known as "Savior" prior to Christ. If her hearts in the right place and she's attempting to engage in a real dialogue, then letting her know that the reaction isn't/isn't going to be what she expects, should be taken as a kindness.

Of course the alternative is, that this was never meant to be anything other than a "Aren't Christians Stupid" thread and Buzzy's objectives were limited to playing to the rest of the anti Christian peanut gallery, engage in a little mockery of people she considers dumb, and advertising her beliefs rather than discussing them.

a reply to: imwilliam

As I said already, anyone who cares can re-read the thread and make their own judgment.

LOL!! Yep! They sure as shootin' can!!!!

I guess you'll just have to hope that they don't re-read it, but rather that they accept your latest off the wall BS at face value.

I have no problem at all with anyone rereading it.
There were saviors way before 'Christ'.
Not my fault if you don't know that.

Anyway, have a great night, william!!
Didn't really mean to upset you. But - I'm not sorry that I did.

If I did.

a reply to: imwilliam

I get the feeling that Buzzy thinks that well read and thoughtful Christians are going to fall apart and abandon their faith if she can show them that someone else was known as "Savior" prior to Christ.

Nope! Wrong.

If her hearts in the right place and she's attempting to engage in a real dialogue,

It is.

then letting her know that the reaction isn't/isn't going to be what she expects, should be taken as a kindness.

How is it a kindness, please?

Of course the alternative is, that this was never meant to be anything other than a "Aren't Christians Stupid" thread

Again....nope!

and Buzzy's objectives were limited to playing to the rest of the anti Christian peanut gallery, engage in a little mockery of people she considers dumb, and advertising her beliefs rather than discussing them.

Nope.


Wow.
You're wrong on all counts! Funny, that.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Check out "the cult of the bronze serpent" thread.

Asclepius aka eshmun is the answer.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

There were deities that people considered to be saviors prior to Jesus. So what? There were healing God's, etc. What is your point? How does this prove anything, and why is it of any significance?

Essentially, you should just come out and say what you really mean, which is that you are a Christ Mythicist because you see parallels between certain ancient belief systems and characters and Jesus of Nazareth and his followers. Unfortunately for you, that does nothing to demonstrate the latter never existed.

Wait.

What??

When in this thread did I say he never existed? I am talking solely about the myths/beliefs that someone was a Savior. Asclepius was considered a savior. 400 years before Jesus.

Jesus was not the first one.

That's my point. Jesus was not the first savior to be considered a deity, nor the first deity to be considered a savior. Either way. Recycled story.

So what?

So...that.
Nevertheless, I think he's a great example of how people ought to behave.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

and?

double post

a reply to: DeadSeraph

and what?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Your statement:

There were saviors way before 'Christ'.
Not my fault if you don't know that.

And my much much earlier statements regarding whether or not someone was known as "Savior" before Christ:

You might have more luck finding references to Zeus as "Savior" that occur prior to Jesus being referred to as Savior, than you have had with Asclepius. If you think it's that important to demonstrate that someone was referred to as "Savior" prior to Jesus, then you might want to start there. Or you could start with any of the many others among the Greek pantheon that bore the title "Soter" . . . there are lots of them. It's entirely possible that some of them were referred to as "Savior" prior to Christ, but I still don't see any evidence that Asclepius was.

Show that someone else was referred to as "Savior" before Christ was, which you still haven't done. (I actually don't think this is as difficult as you're making it, I'm guessing "it's" there, though limiting it to Asclepius is making your job more difficult than it needs to be.

I never denied someone was referred to as "Savior" before Jesus, I told you I suspected that you could find someone if you looked, that it shouldn't be that difficult and then suggested where I thought you might find them.

Was Asclepius known as "Savior" before Christ? Maybe, but you still haven't shown any evidence of that, which is your burden, not mine. People that address Asclepius as "Savior" after Christ don't make your point, whether you realize it or not.

And yet once again, what difference does it make? You've yet to articulate why it matters or what the significance would be.

You're throwing up straw man arguments and acting like a troll in your own thread.

You're wrong on all counts!

So says you, which means nothing.

a reply to: imwilliam

So says you, which means nothing

So you get to decide what my intentions, thoughts, hopes/wishes for this thread are?
Bullcrap.

I know that thoughtful, well-read Christians aren't going to jump ship simply because they learn that other saviors preceded Jesus. This was a simple 'name this savior' thread. The only aim was to see if anyone had heard of Asclepius, a trivia question.

You're the one who made it into a character assault, which it never was. Not against you, or Jesus, or anyone else. YOU and your buddies turned it into an attack on MY character, which is against T&C.
So says I, the author of the thread.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Oh Buzzy when will you learn.
NEVER Question any religion because they are right and you are wrong....If you don't accept Jesus is your saviour you will burn in Hell...Oh I don't want you to because I love you but you can only follow the word that is written in the Bible and never dare question the word from GOD.!!!


(Holy Moly I think I was just possessed by a Christian fundie :O)

Cool read Buzzy S&F.

Im not even here...a reply to: boymonkey74