Court: Atheists Failed to Show Words 'Under God' Harmed Their Children

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posted on May, 12 2014 @ 02:02 PM
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originally posted by: buster2010
Why can't the pledge be returned back to how it was originally written?





So true - but the religious zealots have got control of everything and they tie religion into patriotism and many other things.
God has no place in any aspect of official or political business.
It's personal and private and for the home and church.




posted on May, 12 2014 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy


OK, so monkeys can't move trees, got it. So what would happen if the monkey got to the top, peeled the banana and then redistributed the wealth? How would that have changed the results?


Maybe you should do the experiment and let us know. That way, you can be adversarial AND productive at the same time.
edit on 12-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: luciddream

AHHH! The monkeys!

I had on of my NCO's tell us that story when some one asked why the marines do certain things that don't make a whole lot of sense.

He used 10 monkeys tho.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 02:32 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:04 PM
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Please, keep the insane notion that gods are real out of government. It's sad that government is both ineffective and crazy.



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 02:55 AM
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I'm not a religious person. Personally, I think it's a bit irrelevant to even include "under god" in it. It wasn't even meant to be in there in the first place. It didn't originally have it in there. It changed quite a while after it was first written.

Although, due to my stance on religion, I don't even think the "under god" part would be the worst part about the pledge. I'd have to say that the worst part is having to make kids recite it pretty much everyday. Kids aren't old enough to understand what exactly their pledging allegiance to. Most kids have no idea what politics are all about. Heck, most kids usually don't even have any interest in it. Their brains aren't yet sophisticated enough to take on more complex ideas like that. I know I didn't take it seriously until I was maybe 16-18.

I have a little experiment for you all to carry out to test this out. If you have a son/daughter or maybe a niece/nephew or any other kid you know that's about 7-9 years old (but don't go around just asking random kids, that would come off rather strange to some folks.) that has to recite the pledge daily, or at least most days, ask them what they feel about it. And why they need to recite it. After that, ask them to describe to you what a republic is. Then ask them what the word "indivisible" means. Just general questions like that. I guarantee the majority of kids would struggle to explain all of that to you. Though, you have to ask them by surprise, you can't just tell them right away and have them simply repeat it back to you of course. If they get something wrong, explain it to them. And then have them try and explain it on their own back to you.
edit on 13-5-2014 by Honcho because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 07:51 AM
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originally posted by: Honcho
Kids aren't old enough to understand what exactly their pledging allegiance to.

It's like Sunday school. The programming needs to start early to instill loyalty.



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 10:24 PM
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originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Wasent the word god added a long time after the pledge was first introduced, so why the need to add god to it it?

Is it more american?


It was added by Eisenhower who had just converted to a religion, he felt that by pushing God in the daily lives of Americans it would ward off secular communism. Under him our national motto was changed from "E pluribus unum" to "In God We Trust" and the pledge was changed to add "under God".

The entire thing is completely ridiculous, neither should be there.

That said, the pledge itself is voluntary as are all words you say during it... if you're an atheist just leave out the under God if it's so offensive to you.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Wasent the word god added a long time after the pledge was first introduced, so why the need to add god to it it?

Is it more american?


It was added by Eisenhower who had just converted to a religion, he felt that by pushing God in the daily lives of Americans it would ward off secular communism. Under him our national motto was changed from "E pluribus unum" to "In God We Trust" and the pledge was changed to add "under God".

The entire thing is completely ridiculous, neither should be there.

That said, the pledge itself is voluntary as are all words you say during it... if you're an atheist just leave out the under God if it's so offensive to you.


I find it just a little bit disgusting that God was only worth including in the pledge and the national motto as a propaganda maneuver. If you're gonna believe in the all-powerful invisible sky wizard, at least have some integrity about it. If I were God, I'd be pissed off at the morons waving him around like a carrot stick in front of a pack of mules.

And by a little disgusting, I mean a lot.
edit on 14-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Wasent the word god added a long time after the pledge was first introduced, so why the need to add god to it it?

Is it more american?


It was added by Eisenhower who had just converted to a religion, he felt that by pushing God in the daily lives of Americans it would ward off secular communism. Under him our national motto was changed from "E pluribus unum" to "In God We Trust" and the pledge was changed to add "under God".

The entire thing is completely ridiculous, neither should be there.


Exactly, well said.


That said, the pledge itself is voluntary as are all words you say during it... if you're an atheist just leave out the under God if it's so offensive to you.


Not so well said. While yes that may be a nice stop gap measure, but by no means should it be a permanent solution. You just finished outlining why those words SHOULDN'T be in there then say that non-Christians (or non-believers in this God) should just shut up when it is said. First off, that is all well and good for atheists and agnostics, but what about Hindus or Buddhists or any other religion that doesn't believe in a singular god like Paganism? These words need to be removed from the pledge, money, and other places in government it appears. It is NOT acceptable to just sit back and say that it is a part of life and to just ignore it. I'm sure if the word was Lucifer instead of God, Christians wouldn't be so content with it.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Wasent the word god added a long time after the pledge was first introduced, so why the need to add god to it it?

Is it more american?


It was added by Eisenhower who had just converted to a religion, he felt that by pushing God in the daily lives of Americans it would ward off secular communism. Under him our national motto was changed from "E pluribus unum" to "In God We Trust" and the pledge was changed to add "under God".

The entire thing is completely ridiculous, neither should be there.


Exactly, well said.


That said, the pledge itself is voluntary as are all words you say during it... if you're an atheist just leave out the under God if it's so offensive to you.


Not so well said. While yes that may be a nice stop gap measure, but by no means should it be a permanent solution. You just finished outlining why those words SHOULDN'T be in there then say that non-Christians (or non-believers in this God) should just shut up when it is said. First off, that is all well and good for atheists and agnostics, but what about Hindus or Buddhists or any other religion that doesn't believe in a singular god like Paganism? These words need to be removed from the pledge, money, and other places in government it appears. It is NOT acceptable to just sit back and say that it is a part of life and to just ignore it. I'm sure if the word was Lucifer instead of God, Christians wouldn't be so content with it.


I second that notion.

You have to take into consideration also that If a kid does not say the pledge, or the "under god" part for that matter, there's always that chance of ridicule from other children. The other kids will take notice of this eventually. And I suppose the teacher as well. Children can become quite mean towards one another, I'm sure you all know that. Not always, but the chance is always there. And the child may feel different from the others, or isolated and pressured due to this. It doesn't seem fair to everyone in the end.

Politicians love to say "No child left behind." Yet, it doesn't look like some are taking all of them into consideration on this topic. If they don't want to say it, boohoo, let them sit down in seclusion. I guess it's okay to simply say "Whatever, don't say it if you don't want. Who cares if you don't agree?" It sets a back example for our kids.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

What is your solution, then? Got any ideas that won't piss off the parents or legislators or the educational board?
edit on 14-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Not so well said. While yes that may be a nice stop gap measure, but by no means should it be a permanent solution. You just finished outlining why those words SHOULDN'T be in there then say that non-Christians (or non-believers in this God) should just shut up when it is said. First off, that is all well and good for atheists and agnostics, but what about Hindus or Buddhists or any other religion that doesn't believe in a singular god like Paganism? These words need to be removed from the pledge, money, and other places in government it appears. It is NOT acceptable to just sit back and say that it is a part of life and to just ignore it. I'm sure if the word was Lucifer instead of God, Christians wouldn't be so content with it.


I'm not saying it's ideal, and I would like to see it changed but I don't see how it's actually harming kids as it is. Maybe that's simply because the word god has no meaning to me? It never has. The pledge could have said bowling balls, bananas, Thor, Odin, Allah, or any other word there is. I assume it's the same for any kid that doesn't believe in a single god, and for those that do believe the whole problem with the words being there (or the pledge in general) goes well beyond their comprehension anyways.



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 07:17 AM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Krazysh0t

What is your solution, then? Got any ideas that won't piss off the parents or legislators or the educational board?


All religion or no religion. If all religion is unfeasible, then no religion. Sorry but there is no solution that won't upset everyone, that is a fairy tail.



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Krazysh0t

What is your solution, then? Got any ideas that won't piss off the parents or legislators or the educational board?


All religion or no religion. If all religion is unfeasible, then no religion. Sorry but there is no solution that won't upset everyone, that is a fairy tail.


But do you realize that Christianity is one of very few religions that are not taught in grade school? Children learn about dozens of different mythologies and spiritual eras in history class. They learn about Buddha, Krishna, Odin, Quetzlcoatl, Zeus, Osiris - and all the accompanying pantheons - but heaven forbid if one word about Christianity ever be spoken in a classroom. Maybe the reason some people are getting upset about Christianity being left out of the school curriculum is precisely because that means an all-inclusive education regarding religion and spirituality in history is unfeasible. Seriously, they even teach about Islam in schools, but they can't teach about Christianity? My point being, if that's your answer, then they'd better take it all out. Every god from every country, every spiritual label or term forbidden in our schools.

But...wait...that's a violation of our rights. Freedom of speech and all that.



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Krazysh0t

What is your solution, then? Got any ideas that won't piss off the parents or legislators or the educational board?


All religion or no religion. If all religion is unfeasible, then no religion. Sorry but there is no solution that won't upset everyone, that is a fairy tail.


But do you realize that Christianity is one of very few religions that are not taught in grade school? Children learn about dozens of different mythologies and spiritual eras in history class. They learn about Buddha, Krishna, Odin, Quetzlcoatl, Zeus, Osiris - and all the accompanying pantheons - but heaven forbid if one word about Christianity ever be spoken in a classroom. Maybe the reason some people are getting upset about Christianity being left out of the school curriculum is precisely because that means an all-inclusive education regarding religion and spirituality in history is unfeasible. Seriously, they even teach about Islam in schools, but they can't teach about Christianity? My point being, if that's your answer, then they'd better take it all out. Every god from every country, every spiritual label or term forbidden in our schools.

But...wait...that's a violation of our rights. Freedom of speech and all that.


I'm all for Christianity being taught in schools, for educational purposes. I don't have a problem with that.

And when we talked about religions in high school, it was usually just the history of the religions. I also distinctly remember talking about the origins of Christianity. In college they went even further in detail. So I don't know what you are talking about when you say that they aren't allowed to teach about Christianity in schools.

Honoring a religion is a different story though. Honoring shows favoritism and therefore is a violation of separation of church and state.



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

You would be surprised. But you did say to either have all religions in schools, or take all religions out. And I was saying that to do so would affect more than just the pledge.



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 03:23 PM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You would be surprised. But you did say to either have all religions in schools, or take all religions out. And I was saying that to do so would affect more than just the pledge.


Well that's what I mean, having all religion in schools would just be chaotic and there would not be enough time in the school day or school year to properly teach all the religions. Therefore it is unfeasible. Therefore the only option left is NO religion in school (except for educational purposes).



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 03:34 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You would be surprised. But you did say to either have all religions in schools, or take all religions out. And I was saying that to do so would affect more than just the pledge.


Well that's what I mean, having all religion in schools would just be chaotic and there would not be enough time in the school day or school year to properly teach all the religions. Therefore it is unfeasible. Therefore the only option left is NO religion in school (except for educational purposes).


...Then there would still be religion in school. For educational purposes. And as long as that is the case, good luck getting God out of the pledge.





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