The Mysteries of Christ

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeing

He was at Qumran during his missing years . . .

You aren't up to date on the study of Qumran.
It has now been determined that it was abandoned towards the end of the reign of Herod the Great, so Jesus could not have lived there.
By the time he returned from Egypt, the place would have been empty of any inhabitants.

Are we speaking AD or BC> at the point of birth or death? Qumran was invaded by the Romans in 72 AD, long after say by a few months the Essenes left the compound and scattered to where of all places? France; Great Britain; (call it prior knowledge of intent and presto chango became what is now known as the Templar Knights/Freemasons). Jesus was there between the ages of 13 and 21, (lets say around 0 hour; did you know John the Babtist was an Essene as well as the entire Mary blood line side of the house of David); then joined his Godfather Joseph of Aramethia "Between the two hills" to travel the eastern world including Gt. Britain and India as he was a merchant and owned sea worthy ships. No I suppose I am not as up to date on Qumran as you are as zero hour is still not exactly established (died at 33 at 0 hour, so this would have been 33 years minus 21 equals resembling a time period within Herod Antipas's 72 years AD minus 33 plus 12 and 21 BC equals 33. It is well established Joseph (what was his last name) worked for Herod in Jeruselem as a bridge builder. So as Jesus was his "step child" all dates of existance would have been recorded in the Roman Tax rolls.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Are we speaking AD or BC> at the point of birth or death? Qumran was invaded by the Romans in 72 AD

That was the theory.
Now they think that it was actually Herod the Great who moved in on the settlement and put an end to it.
So that would be around 1 AD, if I remember that right.
I got this from Biblical Archaeology Review.

originally posted by: EviLCHiMP

originally posted by: zardust
The word Mystery or Secret appears 27 times in the Greek NT. 3x9. The word is Musterion and Strong's 1st definition of the word is:

To be granted initiation into the mysteries of heaven is to seek inwardly, to know thy self. The mystery of the seven stars, also known as the seven churches are in reference to the 7 chakras. One cannot just hear this and expect to understand, one must meditate as Jesus did.

Heaven is inside; its within the body as you say. To know thyself is to open the energy centers (chakras) and be able to then speak to the Absolute Unbounded Oneness (which is nothing at the same time everything); hard concepts that western dogmatic practices fail to teach (for a diabolical reason); its easier to listen and read false dogma than to look within to find the truth. I'm not so sure you are evil chimp more enlightened than most. VHB

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeing

[I]veteranhumanbeing][/I] Are we speaking AD or BC> at the point of birth or death? Qumran was invaded by the Romans in 72 AD

jmdewey60That was the theory. Now they think that it was actually Herod the Great who moved in on the settlement and put an end to it; that would be around 1 AD, if I remember that right.I got this from Biblical Archaeology Review.

No it was specifically 72 AD when that already vacated city was assaulted. Antipas the Great was dead already (looking at the Jesus death timeline). Even if it was 1 AD Jesus would have studied at Qumran at 33 minus 21 at 12 years or 21 years BC; still within the timeframe and it was the Romans at the behest of whomever Pharasse was in power at the time that organized this raid on the Essenes in Qumran (they were well prepared AS IN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN and left their legacy as the 'dead sea scrolls' , the future Knights Templar and the Freemasons/Rosicrusions .

a reply to: vethumanbeing

. . . at 33 minus 21 at 12 years or 21 years BC; still within the timeframe.

Supposedly Jesus was crucified at 36 AD, so he would have been 12 around 13 AD, 12 years after it was emptied of inhabitants.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeing

. . . at 33 minus 21 at 12 years or 21 years BC; still within the timeframe.

Supposedly Jesus was crucified at 36 AD, so he would have been 12 around 13 AD, 12 years after it was emptied of inhabitants.

Crucified at 36 AD? ; and it was 72 years AD was when the Romans took a swat team look/mentality at the ragged remains of a non-existant colony; (after his death) proves Jesus was there studying the Egyptian mystery schools BEFORE HE DIED! or after he became a comedic character in a traveling show.

a reply to: EviLCHiMP



The kingdom of Heaven is INSIDE You

a reply to: vethumanbeing

. . . and it was 72 years AD was when the Romans took a swat team look/mentality at the ragged remains of a non-existant colony . . .

Apparently that didn't happen.
Like I said, it was a theory.
Some "SWAT team" did take it out but it happened a lot earlier than previously thought.
Herod the Great was a very capable military fighter and strategist, how he became called "Great".
He had a habit of squashing anything that even might be an opposition.
Here was this desert community built on criticizing the pet project of Herod, the temple of Jerusalem.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeing

. . . and it was 72 years AD was when the Romans took a swat team look/mentality at the ragged remains of a non-existant colony . . .

Apparently that didn't happen.
Like I said, it was a theory.
Some "SWAT team" did take it out but it happened a lot earlier than previously thought.
Herod the Great was a very capable military fighter and strategist, how he became called "Great".
He had a habit of squashing anything that even might be an opposition.
Here was this desert community built on criticizing the pet project of Herod, the temple of Jerusalem.

He was an out of control drunk with power that didn't realize his own wife/or girlfriend killed the proceeding Prophet to the main deal and you are saying this mouthpiece for the Roman controlled areas around Judea was the one that bettered Pilot? Herod was a King and I suppose he never read the Torah or had seen the prophecy? He NEVER spoke to his synagoge Pharasee priests or to his Saducce business advisors before determining this minor 'not a self proclaimed as God' prophet/messiah to the Jews (not even a wannabee) had to go as thyself mouthpiece described 'as a dabbler in Godspeak rabble-rouser false witness' merely proclaiming God exists within us all as we seek him/it/her (NOT HEROD OR PILOT AS CRUCIFICTION WILL BE YOUR LAST COMMITMENT)..

a reply to: vethumanbeing

. . . this mouthpiece for the Roman controlled areas around Judea was the one that bettered Pilot?

You seem to be confused here between Herod (now get this part, it is important) The GREAT, and Herod Antipas, his son, who was in the gospels as a collaborator with Pilate.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeing

. . . this mouthpiece for the Roman controlled areas around Judea was the one that bettered Pilot?

You seem to be confused here between Herod (now get this part, it is important) The GREAT, and Herod Antipas, his son, who was in the gospels as a collaborator with Pilate.

I WAS ALWAYS SPEAKING OF ANTIPAS; COLLABORATOR WITH PILATE/SADUCCES/PHARASEES. We can go back further, the fights between Enlil and Enki and their father Anu/Sumarian; what makes you think Jesus is a singular metaphor to the uplifting of the human specie? HORUS is a major player as the ORIGINAL FORM SET, cookie cutter GOD. Horus was the original Jesus OVERLAY set in Egypt as the first monotheistic God.

a reply to: UNIT76

Not really following you here, could you explain what you mean?

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: zardust

I see it a bit differently, the Rock is Peter yes, but that is his new name given to him, in comparison to Simon Bar Jonah, which he calls him just prior. The word Peter means Rock. This is just as Saul to Paul. Saul is the old man, and Paul is the new. Simon is the old man and Peter is the new.

Notice how both new names start with the letter P.
This is significant in the mystery religions in that it (the letter P at the beginning of the name) designates the person as an initiate.
Jesus was possibly recognizing that Simon now understood the mystery, by calling him Peter.
Same thing with Paul, he understood that Jesus was the risen Christ.
What was a mystery then is common knowledge now.

I'd never heard that before, thats interesting. When I read that I thought of the Rho in the Chi-Rho which is the mystery of the incarnation, or the incarnation of the Logos Cosmically. The rho is a 'P'

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/li532d8c08.png[/atsimg]

Col 1:15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church;

He is the head of the body, head in hebrew is Rosh, which is represented by a 'P'

The chi portion of the chi-rho is the zodiac representing the entire Cosmos as the Body, with the 'P' as the head.

I know that the P you speak of is Pi which looks like a door. Dalet is the Semitic letter that means door.

Rosh

In most Semitic alphabets, the letter resh (and its equivalents) is quite similar to the letter dalet (and its equivalents). In the Syriac alphabet, the letters became so similar that now they are only distinguished by a dot:

The Phoenician letter gave rise to the Greek Rho (Ρ), Etruscan r EtruscanR-01.svg, Latin R, and Cyrillic Р.

The semitic version of 'R' faced left, when it was transferred to the modern (Greek) the letter faced right. This happened as the writing went from right to left, to left to right.

This happened with many of the letters.

Now the Q which is in the middle of our P and R originally looked like two P's back to back or qp which were really 2 R's

ancient hebrew letters

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/jf537203cc.jpg[/atsimg]

The Q probably meant the sun on the horizon. This is another version of the Chi-Rho, The sun on the eccliptical plane.

Chi-Rho

Although modern representations of the Chi-Rho sign represent the two lines crossing at ninety degree angles, the early examples of the Chi-Rho cross at an angle that is more vividly representative of the chi formed by the solar ecliptic path and the celestial equator. This image is most familiar in Plato's Timaeus, where it is explained that the two bands which form the "world soul" (anima mundi) cross each other like the letter chi.[7] Not only did the two legs of the chi remind early Christians of the Holy Cross, "it reminded them of the mystery of the pre-existent Christ, the Logos Theou, the Word of God, who extended himself through all things in order to establish peace and harmony in the universe," in Robert Grigg's words.[8]

See this post and that thread for the significance as the sun-head-seed

a reply to: zardust

The rho is a 'P'

I think it is a covert use of the Ankh symbol from Egyptian religion.
Which I think may be related to Anankē in Greek religion, which is the creator of the universe.

The semitic version of 'R' faced left, when it was transferred to the modern (Greek) the letter faced right.

I think that's right.
There are a lot of similarities that are a bit difficult to explain other than that there was a common source at one time, where all the people came from at one time or another.
Another thing I thought was interesting was while I was watching a PBS show on the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, the world's expert on cuneiform writing said that it was still in use right up to the time of Christ.
And it wasn't alphabetical, but more like Chinese where there were symbols for each word.
So there could have been competing forms of writing all along, in parallel, where maybe the symbolic was considered more precise and universal for legal purposes.

a reply to: jmdewey60


Yes there is a story hidden in the history of letters

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I don't know if he was actually an essence as his teachings are pretty different from what we know of the Essenes, though there are similarities also. John the Baptist was likely an Essene. If Jesus was an Essene I think that was just a foundation or husk. I did look at the similarities between the Therepeutae, of which the Essenes are thought to be associated with, and Jesus, specifically Eshmun/Asceplius in Cult of the Bronze Serpent

So I'm not saying that there were foundations that he grew around and influenced him.

BUT and I think you agree with me that Direct communication with the Father is where he received all that he had. But alas that is what the Mysteries were geared toward.

Have you read any Margaret Barker? She has a lot to say in regards to the Essenes and Gnostics, she is positive about them as opposed to most mainstream christian theologians. And she is widely accepted as an authority on the OT and Ancient Israel.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: EviLCHiMP

originally posted by: zardust
The word Mystery or Secret appears 27 times in the Greek NT. 3x9. The word is Musterion and Strong's 1st definition of the word is:

To be granted initiation into the mysteries of heaven is to seek inwardly, to know thy self. The mystery of the seven stars, also known as the seven churches are in reference to the 7 chakras. One cannot just hear this and expect to understand, one must meditate as Jesus did.

Heaven is inside; its within the body as you say. To know thyself is to open the energy centers (chakras) and be able to then speak to the Absolute Unbounded Oneness (which is nothing at the same time everything); hard concepts that western dogmatic practices fail to teach (for a diabolical reason); its easier to listen and read false dogma than to look within to find the truth. I'm not so sure you are evil chimp more enlightened than most. VHB

Bless you! Your wisdom is admirable my friend!

Thank you for your kind words.

Secret Tradition by Margaret Barker

p 14
There is no shortage of post-resurrection revelation discourses with their descriptions of ascent. The settings are all broadly the same, even though the disciples present vary from one text to another. Eusebius knew that many had received such revelations: ‘Paul... committed nothing to writing but his very short epistles; and yet he had countless unutterable things to say, for he had reached the vision of the third heaven, had been caught up to the divine paradise itself and had been privileged to hear there unspeakable words. Similar experiences were enjoyed by the rest of the Saviour’s pupils the twelve apostles, the seventy disciples and countless others besides’ (History 3.24). What has happened to all these experiences? Was Eusebius was writing fiction at this point, or is there a major element of early Christianity missing from our present understanding of its origins? There is certainly a great difference between how the Christians described their origins in the middle of the fourth century, and how those origins are commonly described today. This older understanding is represented by the post-resurrection texts, even though these may, in their present form, be a later version of that tradition.

p 16
The origin of all these phenomena lies in the secret traditions of the priests, who had been required to guard whatever concerned the altar and what was within the veil (Num.18.7 also LXX Num.3.10). Anyone other than a priest who approached them would die. One of the secrets of the priesthood must have been experiencing theophany, something described in the ancient high priestly blessing: ‘May the LORD make his face/presence shine on you, May the LORD lift up his face/presence upon you’ (Num.6.25-6)62. At the end of the second temple period, this was one of the forbidden texts, which could be read in public but not explained (m.Megillah 4.10). The appearance of the LORD above the ark in the holy of holies had probably been a similar experience, as was John’s experience of the risen LORD with the seven lamps (Rev.1.12-16). The transfiguration was such an experience, when the LORD was seen by the three disciples as a radiant presence, and the experience brought them into a new state of existence63.

a reply to: zardust

Greetings and Namaste. Yes, of course there are unlimited mysteries to this Universe and beyond. That's why if you follow my posts, I always say, "You must continue to go beyond your knowledge and wisdom on a daily basis." This is the Kingdom of Heaven--to reach higher and higher in wisdom until one day you are with the Godhead. Even then, you will again go beyond that, for the Creator learns on a daily basis too. You ask, "How does God keep learning? I thought He already knows all." This is true that He knows all. But this is only true if you're speaking of the Great Spirit of God outside of this Universe. If you're talking about God, The Creator of this Universe, He continues to learn every day. You see, there are many levels of God. So many that no man on Earth can count. Every human on Earth represent levels of God as well. So you can't begin to comprehend the vastness of the variations of God. Though many levels, you still have the ONE God, which we are all a part of.

I just presented to you a mystery that many people can't even begin to grasp. Therefore, this is why the Bible speaks of many mysteries. Master Jesus taught a level of mysteries to his disciples. But he also had more intimate disciples, which he taught even deeper secrets. Even then, the Master still had much to teach, but no man nor woman has heard these mysteries even after he ascended.

So I say today and trust your Heart within. The Heart is the Kingdom of Heaven. Within it, you will find all knowledge and wisdom that can fill up the spaces between the stars in the Heavens.

originally posted by: zardust
You've hit the nail on the head when you said you just can't believe he rose 3 days later. That is the crux of this discussion. The resurrection is a wholly supernatural event. It is not within "these 4 walls". If it happened, and I think it did, there is no real explanation for it… at least not that our darkened minds(4 walls) can fathom.

That is the point, and I know that I start to sound like a broken record for those who have read my posts, but until we "lose our heads", there won't be "any place for the Son of Man to lay his HEAD". The egoic mind or adamic mind is darkened (crown of thorns), "you who were formerly enemies in mind… be reconciled". "even to this day when the Law is read a veil lies over their minds".

Yes..even though I'm am not a meta physician ….that is the crux of the mass ignorance.The human mind cannot comprehend/perceive that reality because it is outside of all Belief Systems.They can only believe "within" their Belief System through faith of their religious carnal mind.

originally posted by: zardustPut on the mind of Christ
Be TRANSFIGURED by the renewing of your mind
Christ is the HEAD of the body (the new jerusalem/bride/new man)
Just as Christ IS so are YOU in the world

This is a sticky wicket because religion is fixated on "idols".The word "christ" has become synonymous with the man Jesus whereas christ means the anointing…it is the "seed" of "life" that everyone (and thing) is "being" grown from.As usual Paul is waxing poetically because it is "not of this world".

originally posted by: zardust
I realize that for the hardcore atheist out there, this will never convince you of anything. But if you believe in anything supernatural, then the resurrection shouldn't be totally out of the question. There are MANY 'problems' with the resurrection for many people. These are often tied up with misconceptions, fables, biases, mistranslations, you know the reason there are 30000 denominations reading from one book. I'm not surprised at all by good people like my friend Utnapistim looking for rational answers, and he might be right, or there may be some other rational answer.

OR the answer is "out there", outside of the boundaries of our matrix (the projected reality of the limited "natural"), the "invisible things" the hyper reality. According to string theory we already exist in more than the 4 dimensions we are "aware" of. I submit you have to suspend rational 4 dimensional thinking to observe the resurrection.

This suspending the rational isn't totally not thinking, but submitting to the Mind of Christ, the very Mind of God. The easterners saw this as "we are one", when you get in tune with the Vibration of the universe. This is the Mind of Christ. This is the resurrection. The rebirth into the Hyper-Reality. Now its "in-part" not the whole (we are coming to the end of the wilderness phase), all creation is still Groaning in Labor pains for the "unveiling of the SONS OF GOD".

'...and that is the dilemma wrapped in a conundrum.The Kingdom of the creator God CAN'T be perceived by the carnal mind."A man convinced against his will is unconvinced still" and rightly so because they CAN'T be convinced through belief of something that can only be "known"…. not "believed".It is the nature of the religious carnal mind to justify it's "beliefs".

Yahoshua resurrection has always been the thorny issue because some (many) have said this is what you MUST believe or perish in the eternal punishment of hell.NOTHING could be further from the Truth.Yahoshua is exactly what CAN'T be believed it can only be known and ALL of mankind WILL know at their own resurrection from the realm of death.That is the meaning of what Paul said.. "EVERY knee will bend and tongue confess the name(nature) of YAHOSHUA…Yahweh (the creator God) IS deliverance from the realm of death(hades).

Paul's words (and Yahoshua's and all the apostles) have been twisted into the doctrines of men and made them void(meaningless).The scriptures have one purpose..as a testimony to "testify" of Yahoshua……PERIOD…. end of book.It isn't a cookbook of mysticism to create "religions" that is ALL in the principalities and powers of the darkened mind of man which is the adversary of man….satan…the "God" of their world.

originally posted by: zardust
This suspending the rational isn't totally not thinking, but submitting to the Mind of Christ, the very Mind of God. The easterners saw this as "we are one", when you get in tune with the Vibration of the universe. This is the Mind of Christ. This is the resurrection. The rebirth into the Hyper-Reality. Now its "in-part" not the whole (we are coming to the end of the wilderness phase), all creation is still Groaning in Labor pains for the "unveiling of the SONS OF GOD".

You are having things revealed to you so please do not take offense however this is not one of them.This is eastern religion the "mysticism" of religion.NONE have been resurrected nor will be resurrected if they have not died in the physical realm.Yahoshua clearly stated this when he said "unless a seed dies it can bear no fruit".The mind of "christ" is the new mind of the new man that has been born anew and NONE have it.It is NOT the "mind of "Jesus" it is the mind of the new man.That age has not happened(appeared) yet.All that HAVE DIED are in the realm of death.None have been resurrected that is the new birth which ALL of mankind is either in the pre conception stage(have not been sowed with the seed of life) or in the process of conception(salvation) none have been born anew past tense even the apostles weren't.

As a "general" term the "New age" philosophy is incorrect.There is no "ascension" into higher realms of consciousness in the physical realm etc, etc,..it is impossible..because this is the physical realm.Are the other "dimensions" possible?..absolutely, however they can't be perceived for what they are the physical realm because it is not "of" that realm (age).That is what Yahoshua meant when he said my Kingdom is not "of" this "world".It was translated from aion which means age or realm.The Kingdom of God is " in "your midst" doesn't mean the Kingdom of God is "IN" you it is the other way around you are growing In the realm of the Kingdom of the creator God.

The religion of the carnal mind is all pervasive.It is blind to everything in the Kingdom of the creator God realm because it "believes" it sees when it is in fact blind.There is no "ascension" it is ALL only revelation By the creator God.There is absolutely NOTHING a man can do to receive any revelation from the Father it is 100% the Fathers initiative.It is what Yahoshua told the disciples were "given to know".That is what is called the "earnest" of the spirit(christ).It is the "stirrings" of the new life in conception because mankind has not even been born yet because the physical realm is a matrix /womb.
cont'