Constitutional Ignorance - All Time High

I can see ATS members are trying really hard these days to understand the mentality of US government workers, from the lowest to the highest levels, but all the current news these days it disheartening.

The framers of the US Constitution made the ground rules very clear, yet we have elected officials, and government workers breaking the rules on every level costing time, deaths, money, and misery at an exponential rate.




The one thing the framers forgot to add was " All government employees need to know the constitution inside and out", on demand at anytime of their career, and if they don't they get dismissed for 30 days without pay, or worse.

It's like going into a restaurant and ordering something from the menu, and getting "Fruitloops" instead. What happened to the menu?

It's truly mind boggling these days. The laws, and bills that completely disregard, ignore, and even completely contradict highest law of the land, "The Constitution of the United States of America"

I propose that any US representative elected, hired or appointed that allows a bill, or enforces a law that is against the US constitution can be removed from office without pay, fined, charged and be open for prosecution.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?

a reply to: Realtruth

Because by them learning the constitution it's going to change what?

a reply to: chrismarco

If all persons working for the government were trained to respect and enable the constitution, then they would understand that enforcing unconstitutional law is legally unsupportable, and would refuse to do it en masse, if they are worthy to hold public office of any level.

originally posted by: chrismarco
a reply to: Realtruth

Because by them learning the constitution it's going to change what?

Hopefully their ignorance, since they are suppose to be uphold it.

How many other jobs currently that people hold, in the private sector, can contradict, abuse, and completely disregard corporate policies and still be viable, and solvent?

a reply to: Realtruth

What can you tell us about the US Constitution?

originally posted by: totallackey
a reply to: Realtruth

What can you tell us about the US Constitution?

If I worked for the US government most likely nothing.

It's not up to individual employees to interpret the constitutionality of a law. That's what courts are for.

originally posted by: links234
It's not up to individual employees to interpret the constitutionality of a law. That's what courts are for.

That's the entire problem most employees, elected officials and even judges don't even know the basics.

Most of them don't know the difference between the 1st from the 5th.

A good question to start would be what is the 45th amendment?

a reply to: Realtruth

so... let me get this straight, you expect custodians and janitorial staff to memorize the constitution.

EXPENSIVE

Yeah, right. Nice joke. I'm busting a gut. This is a joke thread, right? Yeah, I thought so...

Perhaps some of the Constitutional authorities amongst our own membership at ATS could help those pathetic, misguided government employees. No doubt about it, we have plenty of constitutional experts right here in River City. I know this to be a fact as I've read many, many threads here pointing this out. I'm sure you can go to the Mudpit right now and simply take your pick; they flourish there.

Now, in a similar vein, I think I would be in favor of a requirement that members of congress/senate pass a simple intelligence test in order to serve. An IQ of 70 or higher should be mandatory. Boy, now that would clear the chambers...

originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: Realtruth

so... let me get this straight, you expect custodians and janitorial staff to memorize the constitution.

Absolutely not they already know as much or more than the people actually legislating our country.

I would wager the custodians and janitorial staff would do a much better job at running the country, especially since they know how to clean and keep things in order.

originally posted by: netbound
Yeah, right. Nice joke. I'm busting a gut. This is a joke thread, right? Yeah, I thought so...

This is why I love to post on ATS, because people actually have high enough IQ's to see through the OP and my sarcasm.

The people who wrote and signed the Constitution never agreed on what it really meant. That is the very nature of the document that it evolves. Things like early sedition laws, limited voting rights, and that the Constitunion only applied to white, land owning men would never fly today like they did when it was written. The Government has people who spend their entire lives studying the Constitition and their views on what is constitutional is no more or less valid then the random poster on ATS. None of it matters because the in the end the courts decide what is what is not valid.

A great many federal employees take oaths to abide by the Constitution already.

Doesn't seem to be helping.

Maybe the problem is that they don't know what an oath is. In which case their ignorance is general, not specific to the Constitution.

originally posted by: MrSpad
The people who wrote and signed the Constitution never agreed on what it really meant. That is the very nature of the document that it evolves. Things like early sedition laws, limited voting rights, and that the Constitunion only applied to white, land owning men would never fly today like they did when it was written. The Government has people who spend their entire lives studying the Constitition and their views on what is constitutional is no more or less valid then the random poster on ATS. None of it matters because the in the end the courts decide what is what is not valid.

It'll matter enough when the courts are no longer recognized. It has it's worth in the ambitions of men. Jmho of course.

It's truly mind boggling these days. The laws, and bills that completely disregard, ignore, and even completely contradict highest law of the land, "The Constitution of the United States of America" I propose that any US representative elected, hired or appointed that allows a bill, or enforces a law that is against the US constitution can be removed from office without pay, fined, charged and be open for prosecution. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I do like this idea! it seems to prevent the "let the courts decide" excuse from being used by Congress. I continually see a pushing of the envelop by politicians in the federal government that has led to such disasters as Patriot act, NDAA and fee's being called taxes when legislators called it fees first along with origination of bills in the senate by stripping house bills.

By using the "let the courts decide" gambit we are suffering incrementalism that is destroying the nation by allowing congress to ignore the constitution and pass law contrary to anything any normal person would interpret from it.

originally posted by: NthOther
A great many federal employees take oaths to abide by the Constitution already.

Doesn't seem to be helping.

Maybe the problem is that they don't know what an oath is. In which case their ignorance is general, not specific to the Constitution.

There has to be legal consequences to violating that oath - otherwise why should they abide it? Which they obviously do not from the top down.

Knowing the words of the constitution is meaningless because any document can be interpreted in different ways. Just look at virtually any holy book for example. The same thing is at work with our constitution.

The document itself created a great government type, but the document itself and the signatures behind it were largely meaningless. It was intentionally written to be vague because there was no consensus, and everyone at the signing believed it would fail.

We look at it today as a great political work, but the reality is much different. The reason it was able to succeed is that nothing was written in stone, which allowed different cultures to interpret things in different ways. Back then they didn't have the partisan split we have today, but there were still rather diverse groups with different values.

No one actually makes laws that they believe are against the constitution, it's all a matter of interpretation. As a result this proposal does nothing.

originally posted by: chrismarco
a reply to: Realtruth

Because by them learning the constitution it's going to change what?

May change the attitude a bit if they understood that they work for the people not the administration or some entity superior to the people and the republic.

a reply to: Aazadan


Do you happen to work for the government, a bank or are currently holding public office of any sort?

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: chrismarco
a reply to: Realtruth

Because by them learning the constitution it's going to change what?

May change the attitude a bit if they understood that they work for the people not the administration or some entity superior to the people and the republic.

They work to keep themselves employed. Politics as laid out in the constitution represent an ideal, politics in the real world don't live up to that ideal and they never have. In the ideal, solutions are planned for long term and good legislation is placed over ones expected benefit. In reality, politics are dominated by short term perceptions and making sure you get paid/reelected are the priorities.

If you want the politicians to work for you then the answer is simple. Pay them a lot more than the corporations do.