Don't Agree With Vaping? ...Go to Hell! At Least We're Trying!

a reply to: jude11 I was a long time smoker and didn't believe I would ever quit smoking. I had many reasons to quit, but apparently my mind didn't believe them or had some other "better" reasons for keeping me smoking. I tried the e-cigs and while the various tastes and nicotine levels were nice, it just didn't quite give me the satisfaction I "thought" cigarettes gave me. Additionally, they gave me really bad heartburn for some reason.

I rarely, if ever, talk about quitting cigarettes with current smokers because I know how I reacted when someone force fed me their so called success story. I don't judge anyone going through it, whether they succeed or fail. There are so many reasons for either and they are personal and beyond any other person's ability to comprehend.

Because there are so many people posting on this topic, I will simply give something that helped me. I only offer this in the event people may not have heard of it and are needing something and willing to give it a try. I did what I never would have imagined would have worked for me in a million years......I read a book. 'Stop Smoking the Easy Way' by Dr. Carr. It sounds ridiculous and unlikely, but it worked for me AMAZINGLY! It has been over 2 years and I can say I have none of the feelings I had so much fear that I would have for the rest of my life. You are encouraged to smoke until you finish the book. What made it work for me was that I tied the concepts of the book in with my conspiratorial mind / "world view" and things I despise to make it personal.

That paragraph may not make a lot of sense in my very condensed version, but I would be happy to share with anyone that wanted to PM me or whatever works. It might make more sense for someone that has read the book. Best of luck to all of you who are trying to kick the habit. If you fail, which you won't, just give it another go.

I could not have quit without e-cigs. The nicotine habit was easier to break than the hand to mouth, something filling my lungs sensation.

Heck, I still use the e-cig with 0 mg nicotine, because the hand to mouth habit and the filling of the vapor going into my lungs, soothes me when I am stressed.

I have had a rough week. Hubby lost his job which means we have to move for him to find another job, and not enough money to do that, transmission problems with my car, on top of other things. When it rains it pours. I probably would have gone back to cigarettes due to the stress had it it not been for the e-cig.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: gortex
When I move on to nicotine free vaping will that still make me a addict ?

No.

How far are you from that goal? You say you quit but you only quit smoke, not nicotine.

When I say vaping doesn't help you to quit, I obviously mean quitting nicotin, the addictive agent.

What will happen the day you can't have your e-cig around but there's a shop selling regular cigs?

So ingesting nicotine is smoking? Guess what YOU are a smoker
cruisingtips.net...

a reply to: KnowledgeSeeker81

I said it was a poor choice of word and apologized for it.

Geez some people...

My points remain. E-cig don't help you when it comes to getting rid of nicotine addiction. They are no more effective than patches and placebos.

There. Better?



I've been addicted to cigarettes, alcohol and cannabis. I know people who were addicted to heroin.

I speak out of experience. If you want to quit cigarettes and nicotine, there's only one proper way to do it. You just quit. The withdrawal effects are close to nil on a physical level. It's almost only psychological.

Which means it all depends on whether you really want to quit or not.

Just like an alcoholic is never cured, a smoker is never cured neither. It's just a matter of how long he can go without falling for nicotin again.

Of course e-cigs are better for the health so I will never say they are a bad idea, but what I'm talking about is addiction.

If you think you need to gradually lower the dose to quit nicotin, you are wrong. You need to get rid of that self-reinforcing feedback loop, and if you can't do it cold turkey, you probably don't have enough motivation to really quit anyway.


I know a lot of people will disagree with this and get mad at me but I don't care. Nicotin is extremely addictive, but hopefully there are close to 0 physical withdrawal effect, meaning it's purely your motivation and self-control that will do the trick to quit, not e-cigs. The problem is just most people don't have enough motivation or self-control to overcome an habit that has been repeated for years or decades. So they just invent excuses (I'll lower the dose). Do you see many alcoholics saying "I'll lower the dose until I can quit"? No because it doesn't work like that.

Stop feeding the habit. Be strong. End of story.

a reply to: Khaleesi

No I am saying cold turkey is the only way to quit something, otherwise you are just picking up another crutch. In your opinion it doesn't stink as bad, in mine it is not much different. I don't want to bathe in anyone's odors.

First of all, Jude11 - THANK YOU for the thread! I appreciate it!

Quick background - I quit smoking on January 1st. Started smoking 30 years ago because I was 'cool' and all my friends did. Looking back, was it stupid to start? Of course, but this thread isn't about stupid things people do...

Last year, when thinking about quitting, I started Vaping. The concept is awesome:
Quitting smoking cigarettes by introducing something similar containing nicotine (without all the carcinogens), and slowly decreasing the nicotine over time, effectively quitting.

For some reason, it didn't work out too well for me, and I ended up going on the patch and quitting anyway. BUT, just like other things, just because it didn't work for me, doesn't mean that it still isn't awesome.

Now, I've read a lot of comments on this, and really have to ask - "What's the big deal if someone Vapes?".
It's not like we're having Cigarette smoke blown in our face. It doesn't really smell, and there's no second-hand smoke issues, right? Is the issue just with people blowing big clouds of vapor in our faces?

So, what's the problem? I guess I'm stupid because I just don't see it.

Please enlighten me. Thank you!

a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts


Well here is the thing, some of us don't intend to quit, and ergo, there is a cool technology, it exists, no one has the right to make it disappear, to force us to do anything we don't want. We can have what we want in the safest way possible that doesnt endanger others. Ergo, let go my ego twist there buddy!!!!

We have the right to choose what we want to spend our money on, and on what product. Oh and is it ever cheaper.

I like nicotine. You don't require antidepressants.

What it comes down to is a humble little tobacco plant, not that bad for you, Japanese smoked more but had lower rates of cancer. Probably not for much longer with Fukushima.

PTB thought, ching ching, and a way to kill people, loaded them with toxins and radioactive fertilizer and took very cheap ingredients and upped the prices by several thousand percent for profit.

Along comes a new concept and its cheap as it should be, devoid of poisons and smoke, and is embraced.

The bad guys hate it, but you know what, your bankruptcies are earned by you asshats and everyone who fleeces the public like that and harms their health should go bankrupt.

But deprive us, not on my watch. We'll be making our own e liquids ourselves then.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts
a reply to: KnowledgeSeeker81



My points remain. E-cig don't help you when it comes to getting rid of nicotine addiction. They are no more effective than patches and placebos.

Your OPINION is e-cigs don't help you when it comes to getting off nicotine. I've experienced FIRST HAND that the exact opposite is the case. I make juice, I make it for sale. I'm not super big in it, so my clientele is somewhat small. When I first started I made my juices available with as high as 24mg of nicotine, I no longer offer levels above 18mg because the high nicotine content just doesn't sell. I also sell a LOT of juices with ZERO nicotine, to people that used to get e-juice WITH nicotine. How much do you deal directly with this industry to support your opinion vaping doesn't get you off nicotine...because like I said, I DO work with it, and do know.

a reply to: KnowledgeSeeker81

Well said.

Smoking is more than just the nicotine habit. it is also a habit of repetition and motion. Having something in your hands, using the lighter to light up, the hand to mouth and inhaling something into your lungs. When you quit smoking you aren't only giving up the nicotine but the habit of the actions involved with smoking. It is much like a person who bites their nails or twirls their hair. The repetitive motion is comforting. With e-cigs, you can break one habit at a time, the nicotine first then the repetitive motions habit later.

originally posted by: jude11

I won't go in to the vast research and studies of tobacco because if you want to attack this thread to argue otherwise...Go To Hell! I will state unequivocally that you have no knowledge of the topic and you should just "Deny Ignorance"

Fine.
Location:Hell(Rabbit hole)

I never smoke ,I never vape.I have health problem since air pollution.
After I read the thread ,I found this :
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Don't be so sure. A small study by Wolfgang Schober of the Bavarian Health and Food Safety Authority and colleagues published in the International Journal of Hygiene and Environmental Health in December found that vaping worsened indoor air quality, specifically by increasing the concentration of nicotine, particulate matter, PAHs and aluminum -- compounds that have been linked to lung and cardiovascular disease and cancer among other health effects.

(Everyone ,you just use a little bit your intelligence to think how could the release nicotine gas damn thing don't pollute the air.)

Therefore ,I against the vaping .
OP ,you must think I am a selfish bastXXd now ,right ?
But you worse than me .

a reply to: jude11

How are you trying to quit when you are putting nicotine in our system at probably twice the rate as if you smoked. Because people consider ecigs a healthy alternative to smoking, they abuse the drug even more and get even more addicted.

I tried ecigs about 5 years ago when they first came out. All I got were nicotine highs, something you seem to have, judging from your posts.

originally posted by: alldirex
a reply to: jude11

How are you trying to quit when you are putting nicotine in our system at probably twice the rate as if you smoked. Because people consider ecigs a healthy alternative to smoking, they abuse the drug even more and get even more addicted.

I tried ecigs about 5 years ago when they first came out. All I got were nicotine highs, something you seem to have, judging from your posts.

It is literally posts like this that bring out the "go to hell" knee-jerk reaction to vaping. Ignorance, isn't there some motto ATS has about it? Get over the nicotine issue, that's NOT what its about. Nicotine is no worse than caffeine. www.tobaccoharmreduction.org...

What vaping brings to the table is the opportunity to stop ingesting this
www.tricountycessation.org...

Like I linked earlier, if nicotine is the true issue then you better start giving up some of your favorite foods....they NATURALLY contain nicotine
cruisingtips.net...

originally posted by: candlestick

originally posted by: jude11

I won't go in to the vast research and studies of tobacco because if you want to attack this thread to argue otherwise...Go To Hell! I will state unequivocally that you have no knowledge of the topic and you should just "Deny Ignorance"

Fine.
Location:Hell(Rabbit hole)

I never smoke ,I never vape.I have health problem since air pollution.
After I read the thread ,I found this :
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Don't be so sure. A small study by Wolfgang Schober of the Bavarian Health and Food Safety Authority and colleagues published in the International Journal of Hygiene and Environmental Health in December found that vaping worsened indoor air quality, specifically by increasing the concentration of nicotine, particulate matter, PAHs and aluminum -- compounds that have been linked to lung and cardiovascular disease and cancer among other health effects.

(Everyone ,you just use a little bit your intelligence to think how could the release nicotine gas damn thing don't pollute the air.)

Therefore ,I against the vaping .
OP ,you must think I am a selfish bastXXd now ,right ?
But you worse than me .

Here is an actual peer-reviewed test regarding second-hand vape, not an article
clearstream.flavourart.it...

Vape all you want. Vape morning, noon, and night, at home, in your car, in your office, walking through the park, I could care less! Just don't plan on vaping in my home, my car, my office, or anyplace else I'm trapped and can't get away from it, like sitting next to me on a plane. I don't want to smell it, see it up close, inhale it second hand. Exercise your rights, just don't intrude on mine and we will get along fine.

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
Get over the nicotine issue, that's NOT what its about. Nicotine is no worse than caffeine.

Actually, nicotine is an important issue since it cause extreme addiction. Caffeine is nowhere nearly as addictive.

Addiction is a great way for industry to sell you stuff you don't really need. Cigarettes today, juices tomorrow.

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
Like I linked earlier, if nicotine is the true issue then you better start giving up some of your favorite foods....they NATURALLY contain nicotine

That's silly, the levels are nowhere as comparable and cause no addiction.


Again, a lot of people vaping focus entirely on the low health-risks of e-cigs, and they are right on that point, but they simply ignore the underlying issue that they are still addicts. And addiction can be a problem for you especially when you don't get your daily fix.

E-cigs are cool, but they don't solve addiction better than patches or therapy. Actually I see them becoming a thing in the future and kids becoming addict to nicotine thanks to the argument that "it's safe". This is concerning.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
Get over the nicotine issue, that's NOT what its about. Nicotine is no worse than caffeine.

Actually, nicotine is an important issue since it cause extreme addiction. Caffeine is nowhere nearly as addictive..

You should maybe do some research on that, most studies put nicotine and caffeine both around a 30% addiction rate, nicotine slightly higher than the 30% mark and caffeine at or just under the 30% mark. Next in line is heroin.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

Addiction is a great way for industry to sell you stuff you don't really need. Cigarettes today, juices tomorrow.

Cigarettes today $7, juice for a week....$7-$10. Bit of a savings I would say

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
Like I linked earlier, if nicotine is the true issue then you better start giving up some of your favorite foods....they NATURALLY contain nicotine

That's silly, the levels are nowhere as comparable and cause no addiction.

Stating opinions as facts seems to be a trend of yours, while I agree they are miniscule, how do you know they don't cause a dependency.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts Actually I see them becoming a thing in the future and kids becoming addict to nicotine thanks to the argument that "it's safe". This is concerning.

AANNNNDDDD here it is. The kids again, THE KIDS THE KIDS. You know what keeps a kid from smoking? Proper parenting, NOT government regulations.

I used to smoke cigarettes but due to complications sought out an alternative, that alternative was the e-cig. I can without a doubt say that it helped to wean me off of "analog" cigarettes, this was helpful because as we know regular cigarettes contain many hazardous chemicals, tars, carcinogens etc so obviously it has a negative effect on the physical health of the body.

However, what electronic cigarettes did not cure for me was the addiction to nicotine. I could not rely on this device to kick the habit, you cant rely on a nicotine delivering system to cure you from nicotine addiction, that is an absurdity, just hopeful thinking. There is a point where you have to make the decision for yourself and exercise some self-control and willpower, something that once again no device will do for you, this strength and determination has to come from inside.

The thing is that the e-cigarette delivers a very refined form of nicotine which the body absorbs rapidly, nicotine is a toxic substance in itself and can have fatal consequences if not handled safely. Vaping nicotine is not without side-effects, overdosing on nicotine is common and very much unpleasant, the vapor itself can produce an unpleasant stench in a room that is vaped in regularly. Over time the sinuses can build up a similar unpleasant stench and you can develop a light cough, headaches, palpitations, high blood pressure and rapid heartbeat from excessive nicotine intake which is common due to the convenience. E-cigarettes are notorious for strengthening nicotine addiction and increasing intake and dosage.

So basically e-cigarettes may help one to quit regular tobacco cigarettes, but not necessarily to overcome nicotine addiction, if you have the strength you can wean yourself off by lowering your nicotine mg amount, however because of the lower nicotine strength you will be fighting the urge to up the dose, to get the full effect, so it all comes down to your ability to let go of this drug because the devices wont do it for you, even if you are down to 1mg doses. It's up to you to let go of it! There is actually a very pleasant feeling associated with health, of not being a slave to a chemical, the feeling of freedom and health. I wish you all the best on your recovery from this addiction because that's what it is even if it seems healthier than smoking, its still an unhealthy and excruciatingly repetitive habit that relies on your "care' and attention for its growth and development. May God bless!

a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

It seems this new report would back up the claim that e-cigs help smokers quit.

Smokers who use e-cigarettes to quit are more likely to succeed than those who use willpower alone or buy nicotine replacement therapies, such as patches or gum, a study suggests.

The survey of nearly 6,000 smokers found a fifth had quit with the aid of e-cigarettes.

That was 60% higher than those who did not use the devices, the study said.

The University College London team said they were "cautiously positive" about the role e-cigarettes could play.
www.bbc.co.uk...