An End to " It Takes Faith to be an Athiest too!"

As an athiest who loves debateing religion a lot of times I get the " Well atheism takes faith too argument.

Well I may have thought of the "trump card" to it.


See atheism is different because if Jesus shows up on the White House lawn to marrow...... I'm converting... Instantly. As is every other atheist on the planet.

However once the Big Bang was discovered and confirmed. Christians didn't throw out there creation story. That's the difference. Once you figure out something is wrong. You throw it out and come up with a better way.

Any other atheists converting? Lmao

originally posted by: ArtemisE


However once the Big Bang was discovered and confirmed. Christians didn't throw out there creation story. That's the difference. Once you figure out something is wrong. You throw it out and come up with a better way.

Are you aware, that when the Big Bang was first postulated, that it was generally discredited and frowned upon by science?

Why?

Because, at that point, a start to the universe implied an original cause.

Something that to this day, modern cosmology has good ideas, but no unified theory to explain.

Look up Fred Hoyle as an example..

While having no argument with the Lemaître theory (later confirmed by Edwin Hubble's observations) that the universe was expanding, Hoyle disagreed on its interpretation. He found the idea that the universe had a beginning to be pseudoscience, resembling arguments for a creator, "for it's an irrational process, and can't be described in scientific terms"

Its all subjective, and you need to guard against the confirmation Bias.

a reply to: ArtemisE

If Jesus turned up tomorrow and you decided that you would convert because of it, what makes you think you would get away with it?

2nd, the Big Bang theory is, a theory.

a reply to: ArtemisE

See atheism is different because if Jesus shows up on the White House lawn to marrow...... I'm converting... Instantly. As is every other atheist on the planet. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

lol, I know some atheists that still would not convert. But nice to know all it takes is the second coming of Christ to get you to (personally) convert. I think I read somewhere that being a kind of the plan.

I think some claim obama to be a Christ like figure who occasionally strolls the white house lawn.
Well whatever you choose, good luck, or Buddha bless you, or whatever gets you feeling confident.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
If Jesus turned up tomorrow and you decided that you would convert because of it, what makes you think you would get away with it?

As long as someone is alive, they have an opportunity to convert to belief in Jesus and 'be saved'. That's the Christian belief. Jesus is Mercy Incarnate.

If the little bugger showed up on the White House lawn....I'd know for sure he was a FAKE!!!!

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DarknStormy
If Jesus turned up tomorrow and you decided that you would convert because of it, what makes you think you would get away with it?

As long as someone is alive, they have an opportunity to convert to belief in Jesus and 'be saved'. That's the Christian belief. Jesus is Mercy Incarnate.

So if Jesus was to turn up tomorrow and every atheist converted because he turned up, everyone would be saved? Is that what your suggesting?

a reply to: ArtemisE

Id say with being atheist you have to have confidence in your choices more than have faith, simply stand up and defend yourself when you have to when someone asks, otherwise shut up

Im agnostic and i like to debate because im not sure yet and im leaving my options open. Learn as much as i can about all religions and science and technology and see who comes out on top.

originally posted by: ArtemisE
As an athiest who loves debateing religion a lot of times I get the " Well atheism takes faith too argument.

Well I may have thought of the "trump card" to it.


See atheism is different because if Jesus shows up on the White House lawn to marrow...... I'm converting... Instantly. As is every other atheist on the planet.

However once the Big Bang was discovered and confirmed. Christians didn't throw out there creation story. That's the difference. Once you figure out something is wrong. You throw it out and come up with a better way.

Any other atheists converting? Lmao

this argument can be easily misconstrued to be used against you. say you saw this and converted to being a christian - would you then be confined to be just as strict about your beliefs as the christians who were there before you?

if you found out the event was staged, would you still be a christian? go back to being an atheist? this seems like the fastest way to lose your point of view before you can ever confirm and solidify it.

atheism is not different - christians have faith and conviction that a god exists. atheists have faith and conviction that no such thing exists. both schools of thought are insufficient, and based in absolutely nothing measurable.

this is the beauty of life, and also one of the biggest frustrations about it. we won't know, because we're microscopic in our scope of understanding what is around us and how it all operates. at the end of the day, especially with conversations like this, you're just arguing to argue

originally posted by: DarknStormy
So if Jesus was to turn up tomorrow and every atheist converted because he turned up, everyone would be saved? Is that what your suggesting?

I'm not 'suggesting' anything. I"m stating that, according to scripture, all a person has to do is believe in Jesus and he'll be saved. Even if it's at the last minute .. like the 'Good Thief' who died next to Jesus. The thief said - 'Lord, Remember me when You come into your kingdom'. And Jesus said .. 'yep, I will'. That's it. That's all it took ... a conversion of disbelief to belief and the desire to follow or be with Jesus. So if it was good enough for 'the good thief' (also known as St. Dismas), then it will most likely be good enough for the rest of them on the day Jesus comes back.

Don't think so? Well ... take it up with God. He saved 'The Good Thief' that way ...

God's ways are not our ways .. it'll be up to Him .... not me.

a reply to: FlyersFan

So faith is based off seeing is believing now? I don't get it...

Is Jesus God?

And where does the Bible confirm that seeing is believing regardless of a thief who was hung with Jesus?

I only ask because these teachings must be in the Bible and I've missed them somewhere along the line.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
So faith is based off seeing is believing now? I don't get it...

Hey ... all I know is that, at the very end of his life, the good thief said to Jesus 'Lord, remember me in your kingdom' and Jesus said He would.

(a lot of folks only believe or have faith because they have seen a miracle or something like that .... I'm sure they'll all be going to heaven just as much as a person who has faith and hasn't seen a miracle).

I guess we'll find out for sure when we die ....
Just don't write the atheists off ...
You never know.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
Is Jesus God?

Yes. (although some would disagree with that)

And where does the Bible confirm that seeing is believing regardless of a thief who was hung with Jesus?

I don't understand the question. Please rephrase. Thanks. (or start a new thread on this because it may be getting off topic from the original theme ... I'm not sure)

a reply to: FlyersFan

No, I'm not writing anyone off because I don't consider myself a good Christian and by the teachings of the Bible, if it does have any merit I will be going to that place down South..

What I'm asking is where seeing is believing is a good enough excuse for faith?

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DarknStormy
Is Jesus God?

Yes. (although some would disagree with that)

And where does the Bible confirm that seeing is believing regardless of a thief who was hung with Jesus?

I don't understand the question. Please rephrase. Thanks. (or start a new thread on this because it may be getting off topic from the original theme ... I'm not sure)

What I'm saying is "Where does the Bible suggest that faith is based off converting to Christianity because you have seen the Messiah" and it is undeniable yet you never believed because you couldn't put your faith into something you could never see except through the writings of the Bible which you thought was bunk in the first place?

a reply to: DarknStormy
Okay ... you'll have to give me a few minutes to digest that question ... I'm having a brain fart I can't wrap my head around it. (I'm having a sjogrens moment so be patient please) I'm thinking that would actually be a good topic for a thread of it's own. Would you like to start it in the religion forum??

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DarknStormy
If Jesus turned up tomorrow and you decided that you would convert because of it, what makes you think you would get away with it?

As long as someone is alive, they have an opportunity to convert to belief in Jesus and 'be saved'. That's the Christian belief. Jesus is Mercy Incarnate.

Who wants belief?
Which is faith.

Myself, like the OP, just want to KNOW. And if I knew the realness, I would no longer be agnostic/atheistic.

As far as the Big bang is concerned, do I believe it's the beginning? No, I believe it's just another Universe born within a Multiverse.
No beginning, no end.

originally posted by: minkmouse
If the little bugger showed up on the White House lawn....I'd know for sure he was a FAKE!!!!

Thats funny, I do the same with politicians, they claim they are christian, I know they are liars right off the bat.

ETA:

To be fair though, I also think that when any politician opens his mouth...

a reply to: FlyersFan Isn't the next step in the process the anti-Christ and there will be a lot who follow after him ?

I think what you're describing is more akin to Agnosticism.

I don't specifically believe in a god or gods, but am open to the idea of something of that sort existing, and would be open to believing it if I could see proof. Similarly, I believe in scientifically derived predictions for the physical behaviour of matter and energy, but, having no view into the real math behind the scenes, I can't say that I believe (or have faith) in those concepts either.

Honestly, I only have circumstantial evidence that anyone on this site exists. How's that for keeping an open mind?