The Conspiracy To Discredit Christ as a Myth and to change Christianity into "do what thou wilt"

The human race needs a god to believe in.

The human race needs to somehow associate itself with god and have chosen a "human" do be the "son of god".

The human-god hybrid is what ties us to "a" god. It makes us feel connected to "a" creator.

We need to believe in a higher power and our connection to the higher power (by prophet or by direct lineage).

It gives us drive and purpose.

It also gives us rules and a form of moral government.

Mythology, yes, just like Zues, Jupiter, Odin, Ra and all the other "fathers" of the gods. A system of control. No more, no less.

Are you sure it gave us morality? Or was it a way to teach mrality thru stories? a reply to: wdkirk

a reply to: Logarock

No they are not hear say, but we don't have first hand accounts of the biblical figures.

a reply to: arpgme

i agree with you
forgiveness is the toughest thing to do, especially when we're 'betrayed by Judas'.

it is also irony that most believers still worry about their lives although they believe that they will go to heaven after life (thanks to the freedom from sins by living in the name of Jesus Christ)

peace

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: DerbyGawker


My meaning was that technically first hand accounts are not considered hearsay even if they don't weigh in on the final outcome of a case.

There are no first-hand accounts of ancient miracles. No one can testify Jesus walked on water. Public consensus isn't a court of law, so I don't even care to entertain the possibility of someone living claiming they 'witnessed' a miracle that isn't actually a miracle.

Mother Theresa fed poor kids, MIRACLE!
The bullet just missed his heart, MIRACLE! (not physics!)

There's absolutely no validity to any miracle because there's no evidence any have ever occurred.

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
a reply to: SuperFrog

Sure.

How about the New Testament? Did you ever read it? Of course not. Only know how to disrespect Christianism and God.

How about the millions of Holy Martyrs, of Saints and people who believe in Christianism for more than 2000 years?

How about going into any Orthodox church and ask them to show you the libraries of books written from the Saints through the centuries, written from people who made miracles which were written and remembered for centuries, written by people who wanted to show how Jesus was?

How about, if you live in England, visit the great Orthodox monastery in Essex and ask them to provide you with proofs about Jesus exsistance for the rest of your life from books either of believers or not? Or any Orthodox monastery in the US, if you live in the US ( i would suggest the 2 Greek monasteries in Texas )?

How about all the muslims through the centuries who became Christians because, as they all say, they saw Jesus?

Here, take a video

How about visiting Mount Athos where you will find tons of books from the Roman times which all mention a person who was doing miracles and lived the life Jesus lived and at the same period of time?

How about checking the example of Saint Konstantine who became the first emperor of the Byzantine Empire and won the battle against Likinius in which battle he carried the Cross of Jesus after a dream he saw in which Jesus told him "in this you win" or "Εν τούτω νίκα"? A pagan turned into a Christian in 1 night?

How about searching the books which have been written about the Roman resources which described in the official Roman Empire's reports a person just like Jesus?

How about the experiences millions had, experiences of them seeing Jesus or the Mother of Lord or any Saint telling them something that helped them later in their lives, or how they helped them in an important surgery?

How about checking all the prophecies written by Saints of the Orthodox church, which prophecies have already come true?

How about checking the Holy paintings Evangelist and Apostle Luke painted with the Mother of Lord? He was next to her when he was painting them!


What else do you need? Christianism, and more specifically Orthodoxy, is the only religion that has never hidden anything and will never hide anything. Cause as Jesus said at John's 8:32 :

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."



Do you need more assistance from me? Or you wait chewed food in your mouth?

This entire post is hilarious as an argument.

originally posted by: DerbyGawker

There's no factual evidence of miracles, only hearsay.

Hearsays? Sure, about the thousands of miracles happening every day your reply is that they are a hearsay?

The fact that i live right now and write this post towards you after a fall from 3 meters as a child is coinsidence, not a miracle right?

When you cannot understand something it does not mean that that something is not true.


a reply to: Verum1quaere

Thank you Verum, i completely forgot to mention and post videos of exorcism.

originally posted by: immoralist

This entire post is hilarious as an argument.

Yes, when there are no arguments to deny the existence of Jesus and God, no arguments to deny the Truth and you still deny to accept the facts and evidences then you can only mock the truth.

Suit yourself bro


a reply to: paxnatus

As i said, always speaking with facts and evidences

Happy to help you

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
Hearsays? Sure, about the thousands of miracles happening every day your reply is that they are a hearsay?

You can't be serious? Miracles? Show me given miracles and give me proof that pure luck has nothing to do with some of them?!

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
The fact that i live right now and write this post towards you after a fall from 3 meters as a child is coinsidence, not a miracle right?

Why can't be coincidence? Explain your reasoning.

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
When you cannot understand something it does not mean that that something is not true.

Making false statement does not make it true, sorry.

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
Yes, when there are no arguments to deny the existence of Jesus and God, no arguments to deny the Truth and you still deny to accept the facts and evidences then you can only mock the truth.

False, there is no evidence of his existence apart from Bible, which can't be seriusly taken as fact book. Sorry to burst your bubble... your examples are nothing - no evidence, just more claims about so called miracles. In the world we have false saints, no wonder we have false miracles. Just imagine how miracles had different meaning for uneducated people 1 or 2 thousands years ago...

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
As i said, always speaking with facts and evidences

Happy to help you

LOL

Here is 2 songs that I found cover both miracles and your evidence:





* Please note, adult language in both of song... presented by Dr. Minchin.

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
a reply to: SuperFrog

Sure.

How about the New Testament? Did you ever read it? Of course not. Only know how to disrespect Christianism and God.

Slow down Jesus Christ, let's start form begining:

First you ask question, then you answer to it. That is called disrespect. I don't really care about religion in overall, so not picking on Christians as suggested or to your God, who btw you got by just pure luck, or should I call it a miracle - because there was a chance you would be born in middle east and believe in Allah, or believe in Ju-Ju on the top of mountain if you were born somewhere in middle Africa... (see where I am going with this...) what a MIRACLE. (and relief, as all of those who were not that lucky will burn in hell, will they not?)

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
How about the millions of Holy Martyrs, of Saints and people who believe in Christianism for more than 2000 years?

What kind of evidence is this? How can you take for evidence claims of people who lived after supposed time Christ lived?

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
How about going into any Orthodox church and ask them to show you the libraries of books written from the Saints through the centuries, written from people who made miracles which were written and remembered for centuries, written by people who wanted to show how Jesus was?

Care to show that evidence. Again, someone writing about something that supposedly happened long time ago... Are you serious?

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
How about, if you live in England, visit the great Orthodox monastery in Essex and ask them to provide you with proofs about Jesus exsistance for the rest of your life from books either of believers or not? Or any Orthodox monastery in the US, if you live in the US ( i would suggest the 2 Greek monasteries in Texas )?

Jesus lived in England or even better - in Texas?

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
How about all the muslims through the centuries who became Christians because, as they all say, they saw Jesus?

There are many examples of Christians abolishing their religion for Islam or atheism. How this supposed to be proof of anything? Why should we trust this person who abandoned his previous belief and his previous God?

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
How about visiting Mount Athos where you will find tons of books from the Roman times which all mention a person who was doing miracles and lived the life Jesus lived and at the same period of time?

There is no single book from time of Roman that points that Jesus ever existed. You, as someone who apparantly visited Athos should know that by now. Actually I am sure you know, otherwise you would give us simple example from book.

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
How about checking the example of Saint Konstantine who became the first emperor of the Byzantine Empire and won the battle against Likinius in which battle he carried the Cross of Jesus after a dream he saw in which Jesus told him "in this you win" or "Εν τούτω νίκα"? A pagan turned into a Christian in 1 night?

Someone who lived 250 years later is good source of evidence, sure...

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
How about searching the books which have been written about the Roman resources which described in the official Roman Empire's reports a person just like Jesus?

There is no single book like that, that points to person called 'Jesus', that was like that at that particular time.

But, there are books that talk about person born of Virgin, just as Christ, his father was God and many other connections to Christ including similar teaching that emphasize love and peace, his birth was foretold and many other similarities. His name was Krishna.

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
How about the experiences millions had, experiences of them seeing Jesus or the Mother of Lord or any Saint telling them something that helped them later in their lives, or how they helped them in an important surgery?

Look at Tim Minchin video I showed on previous post - one titled 'Thank you God'.

originally posted by: JesusChristwinsHow about checking all the prophecies written by Saints of the Orthodox church, which prophecies have already come true?

What prophecies came true? Enlighten us, please. DO you have any for next 2-3 years?

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
How about checking the Holy paintings Evangelist and Apostle Luke painted with the Mother of Lord? He was next to her when he was painting them!

Do you know when Luke was born?? What do you think, how old he was when he made that 'holy paint' (first time I hear this )

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
What else do you need? Christianism, and more specifically Orthodoxy, is the only religion that has never hidden anything and will never hide anything. Cause as Jesus said at John's 8:32 :

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."



Do you need more assistance from me? Or you wait chewed food in your mouth?

Some evidence, which you failed to provide, would help. You know, someone dreaming about Dragon does not make it real or true...

a reply to: SuperFrog

Your ignorance is sad. Really sad.

You alter my words, understood nothing of what i wrote, denied everything. While you are so lazy to search on your own and see that everything i posted is true, you simply deny everything posting songs which have nothing in common with what i wrote.

That is also the epitome of disrespect, sir. And you think that "my" way of analyzing and presenting the facts can be called a form of disrespect? Then you have simply no idea about Socrates, no idea of his rhetorical questions and then his answers, you call Socrates (the speech whom i have managed to copy after 30 years of constant exercise) a person who was disrespecting his hinterlocutors. I hope you are in position to know and understand who Socrates was.

What you do here is disrespecting me, disrespecting anyone who may try to show you that you are wrong, showing no interest in searching even a bit if my words were truth or not, showing great ignorance and no will to get out of it.


I feel sorry for you

a reply to: SuperFrog

Little Sara? lol
I don't believe in any religion.
I believe the "scientific study" about circumcisions and STD's are flawed - complete horse manure.
I read a study a long time ago that most women who've been with both circumcised and un-circumcised men say that they preferred uncircumcised men. There's a website. The comments are hilarious.

originally posted by: DerbyGawker

There are no first-hand accounts of ancient miracles. No one can testify Jesus walked on water. Public consensus isn't a court of law, so I don't even care to entertain the possibility of someone living claiming they 'witnessed' a miracle that isn't actually a miracle.

Mother Theresa fed poor kids, MIRACLE!
The bullet just missed his heart, MIRACLE! (not physics!)

There's absolutely no validity to any miracle because there's no evidence any have ever occurred.

Not only no first hand accounts of Jesus but there are no SECOND hand accounts either.

originally posted by: JesusChristwins
a reply to: SuperFrog

Your ignorance is sad. Really sad.

You alter my words, understood nothing of what i wrote, denied everything. While you are so lazy to search on your own and see that everything i posted is true, you simply deny everything posting songs which have nothing in common with what i wrote.

That is also the epitome of disrespect, sir. And you think that "my" way of analyzing and presenting the facts can be called a form of disrespect? Then you have simply no idea about Socrates, no idea of his rhetorical questions and then his answers, you call Socrates (the speech whom i have managed to copy after 30 years of constant exercise) a person who was disrespecting his hinterlocutors. I hope you are in position to know and understand who Socrates was.

What you do here is disrespecting me, disrespecting anyone who may try to show you that you are wrong, showing no interest in searching even a bit if my words were truth or not, showing great ignorance and no will to get out of it.


I feel sorry for you

Wait a sec Jesus,

because I don't agree with you, and because all your so called 'evidence' happened to be nothing more then pure dream, I am somehow disrespecting you? So to show my respect, I have to agree to everything you write?! How interesting?

What Socrates has to do with any of this.

Let's start with small steps first, in your previous post you for example write about Luke making picture of Jesus' mother. I asked simple thing - when was Luke born, how long he lived and when do you think he made painting? How old mother of Jesus was at the time he made picture.

Once you answer all question, you will release that not only he made up painting, witch is dishonest in my opinion, but that even given chance to meet old lady at the time of her death, he was 10 year old.


Mother Theresa would be completely different story. Not sure if you know that before she was turned into saint, based on photos that shows 'light' Mother Theresa in dark environment Vatican called Christopher Hitchens because he criticized whole accident. There is simple explanation for 'miracle' - it was new kind of film used, but that was ignored just so she can be 'saint'.

You see, as Tim Minchin said in his song - there is no such a thing as miracle. All of them turn out not to be miracles or magic.

originally posted by: DerbyGawker

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: DerbyGawker


My meaning was that technically first hand accounts are not considered hearsay even if they don't weigh in on the final outcome of a case.

There are no first-hand accounts of ancient miracles. No one can testify Jesus walked on water. Public consensus isn't a court of law, so I don't even care to entertain the possibility of someone living claiming they 'witnessed' a miracle that isn't actually a miracle.

Well you can call it what you like but people did testify of witnessing miracles by Jesus. You sound like someone sticking their fingers in their ears and just say no, no, no.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: DerbyGawker

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: DerbyGawker


My meaning was that technically first hand accounts are not considered hearsay even if they don't weigh in on the final outcome of a case.

There are no first-hand accounts of ancient miracles. No one can testify Jesus walked on water. Public consensus isn't a court of law, so I don't even care to entertain the possibility of someone living claiming they 'witnessed' a miracle that isn't actually a miracle.

Well you can call it what you like but people did testify of witnessing miracles by Jesus. You sound like someone sticking their fingers in their ears and just say no, no, no.

Really?

Who? Who???

Are those the same people who witnessed how God created world in 6 days and rested on 7 day.

What I find always surprising that on his day off - everyone prays to him. What's the point. (Thank you George for such a laughable comedy )

a reply to: SuperFrog

I don't know who was around back then. My mom certainly wasn't.

Anyway Who? who? Do your own homework of very basic subject matter and then you could add more than some periodic rhetoric. You know who I am talking about and if not you need to set down and be schooled before entering in. At least some of the critics here can offer a good row and have some fairly good bible understanding. What did the short the bible critic short bus just roll in or what?

a reply to: Logarock

The biblical accounts we have now. Most historians believe were written by the followers of the apostles 60 to 100 years after the death of Christ. So they actually would be hearsay accounts.

a reply to: ArtemisE


Some may believe that but there are plenty that don't. And it still wouldn't be hearsay anyway as they are written testimony. Not anymore hearsay than what a court reporter takes down.

a reply to: Logarock

except we don't know who wrote any of them... the authors are all assumed

a reply to: Logarock

If by plenty who don't you mean the same creation scientists who think we road dinosaurs , then sure plenty do. Hell if you notice it's the same 3 or 4 guys who claim that. Hamm, Wyatt, man can't remember the other 2. :p


No historian not trying to prove Christianity believes that. All the historians who just take the evidence as it comes think it was the followers of the apostles who wrote the books.