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How can the ACLU overlook where civil liberties come from?

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posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:35 PM
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I have seen a couple of threads on ATS lately debating the words "under god" in the pledge of allegiance.


To Patriots
Look at it from the non-theist's point of view. In a society where you are guaranteed the right and free exercise of religion, meaning having to partake in loyalty oaths with the words "so help me God" or having to prayer publicly is an infringement upon people who have no belief in any higher being. This is why Obama stripped the word God from his recital of the Gettysburg address, which every President since Lincoln has done.

To atheists
The freedom of religion comes from the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights. What if you had some magical tech-savvy way to ressurect from the dead, the congressmen from the First Constitutional Congress and attempted to award them for drafting that amendment? They would gladly accept an award for protecting your Freedom of Religion. They would deny any credit for giving you freedom of religion. They believed that comes from God.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


Those who drafted the Bill of Rights believed God was the highest power, for God created people. People were more powerful than government for people created government. Government had the power to protect what God made.

To understand WHY something is law, one must see from the point of view of the lawmaker.
What the ACLU and all other humanist groups fail to see is, the freedom of religion was created by God. A loyalty oath to the constitution has to be sworn to God, which the writers of the constitution saw as creator of civil liberties.

Atheism wields a double sided sword. Upon its first swing they slash through their enemies. With the second swing, they slash themselves.

If people fail to understand this, what we get is politicians who promise to rule wisely but nonetheless intend to rule




posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 12:26 AM
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a reply to: MisterMandlebrot




They would gladly accept an award for protecting your Freedom of Religion. They would deny any credit for giving you freedom of religion. They believed that comes from God. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...


I disagree with you that freedom of religion comes from God. At least, it doesn't come from the God of the Bible. So, what God gave us freedom of religion?

I"m pretty sure the founding fathers were trying to save the nation from religious oppression, like where they came from, you know?



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 12:54 AM
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a reply to: MisterMandlebrot

I have a few questions, If I may.

First, why would you address patriots and atheists separately?
What about atheist patriots, or patiotic atheists?
Or does one exclude the other in the US?

Second, if freedom of religion was created by God (or various Gods, if not by ALL Gods), why did the christian God state earlier (in his 10 commandments): "Thou shalt not have other gods beside me", or is this to be interpreted as "only one God per person"?
Or... did he just change his mind later on?
edit on 24-4-2014 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 01:18 AM
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originally posted by: windword
I"m pretty sure the founding fathers were trying to save the nation from religious oppression, like where they came from, you know?

The history of religious freedom... good point.

What about the time before we had freedom of religion (even before the Prussian kingdom)?
Why didn't the Gods care about freedom of religion earlier?



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 01:28 AM
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Patriot is the opposite of atheist?
Hmm.. Never knew that.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 03:15 AM
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I'm no expert on US history, but I've heard glimpses of the debate on the Founding Fathers (on TBN and so forth), and weren't many of them Deists?

They could have believed that a creator set the world in motion with inalienable rights, but from there onwards man was alone in his social struggles, and rights to believe or not.
Especially the Jefferson Bible seemed to make it clear that these men did not believe in the theism or supernatural intervention of "a God", as most evangelical Christians do today.
So, while the spark may not have been atheism, it also seems far from the theism of today, but it was something closer to Deism.
edit on 24-4-2014 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 03:30 AM
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a reply to: windword
"worship no other gods before me"
yup,
now THATS freedom of worship

for the life of me I can't understand the christian hubris which claims the word "creator" is automatically the christian god....who only appears after 4.5 billion years into the creation
that taking of the lords name in vanity certainly is a convoluted view point
I swear

eta
star that HOM lol and to CC ( quickdraw...)

edit on Thuam4b20144America/Chicago51 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on Thuam4b20144America/Chicago01 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 07:31 AM
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I took it to mean ANYBODYS "GOD"....in other words.....whatever created us (your choice) be it atheist, Islam, Scientology or whatever....all men were and are created "equal".....



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: MisterMandlebrot
I always thought that things were worded to suit their audience.

That's all.


edit on 24-4-2014 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: MisterMandlebrot

You make a interesting point Yet, when I look at human history freedom of religion is kind of new for human society. For most of human history one religion would often be imposed on an entire society by powerful religious and/or political leaders. So, if freedom of religion came from god then god must have decided this only recently. And also, which god are you talking about because there are many gods worshiped across the world.



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