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Babylon, Islam and magic

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posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by introspectionist
 

Sounds to me like your a student looking for path and wisdom rather than just picking apart religious books and heresy. Try Michael W Ford on Youtube, his videos explain much of what your looking for with the except of Islamic history.




posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 03:56 PM
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sk0rpi0n
Father, son and Holy spirit amount to three entities. ''Trinity'', like ''triplets'', ''trilogy'' etc. denote a set of three.

ONE GOD .. three manifestations. ONE ENTITY. You've been told this many times, but still refuse to acknowledge it. Perhaps you should refrain from telling Christians what they supposedly believe. You get it wrong each time.

How about you get on topic .... that being - the Qu'ran is not a reliable source of historical information.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Actually one deity, 3 forms. Trinity is a mask for quantum placement in the christian perspective.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by 168617
 


Im gonna take a wild guess your a either a devout xian or conformed muslim.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:10 PM
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@ FlyersFan.... ONE GOD .. three manifestations. ONE ENTITY
Wrong. Three ''manifestations'' as Father, son and holy spirit are still THREE seperate entities. Christianity is polytheism .


How about you get on topic .... that being - the Qu'ran is not a reliable source of historical information.

Thats not the topic at all. Read the OP one more time.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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@ G0v0D47....one deity, 3 forms. Trinity is a mask for quantum placement in the christian perspective.
No. They are three distinct entities. The son and holy spirit take orders from ''Father'' God...and therefore cannot be God.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:20 PM
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sk0rpi0n
Three ''manifestations'' as Father, son and holy spirit are still THREE seperate entities.

Wrong. This is why a Muslim shouldn't be trying to tell Christians what they believe.
A foot, a hand, and a head ... all part of ONE BODY .. not three different bodies.
God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit .. ONE GOD .. three manifestations.
Try reading information from the source - Christian teachings - instead of anti-Christian propaganda.

And again ... you are off topic. The topic question is ... is the Qu'ran an accurate historical source?

FROM THE OPENING POST ON PAGE ONE -

Maybe the Quran is an allegorical myth and not a historical account.


Get on topic and answer the opening post ...
edit on 4/13/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Kind of a ticker when Xians try to allegate their own info of a religion, when they dont even understand the foundation.
Though you are accurate, is off topic. Was more or less proving his lack of understanding. However, I believe rather than the general question of book authenticity, he should just be steered towards what he seeks rather than reading more religious garbage to make him stay in desolation of confusion.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 07:05 PM
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sk0rpi0n

@FlyersFan... you know that Christianity doesn't have 'multiple deities'. ONE GOD ... three manifestations.
Father, son and Holy spirit amount to three entities. ''Trinity'', like ''triplets'', ''trilogy'' etc. denote a set of three.


You can separate something into parts even if it is one thing. The whole one/many discussion is weird from my point of view.

A human have both consciousness and a body that are two separate things but still is one being. A body is built up by cells and is still thought of as one body.

Why do you assume that just because god is ONE, god do not have parts?




posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 10:14 PM
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G0v0D47
reply to post by 168617
 


They could never prove they are Israel/Canaanites because they are Khazars carrying a black magic corporate flag, not a religious one. Nothing of Israel except Jerusalem is even authentic. check youtube


I already know.. Khazar's were a Pagan Phallic tribe who converted to Judaism for political reasons in 740a.d. Just like the Roman's converted to Christianity 400 years earlier..



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 10:30 PM
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G0v0D47
reply to post by 168617
 


Im gonna take a wild guess your a either a devout xian or conformed muslim.


No, I have read the qu'ran many times.. It's as close to truth as you will get when reading religious books. I know Christians who have read the Qu'ran and though they follow their Christian faith believe that the Qu'ran is the most logical out of the religious texts and that includes compared to their very own Bible. Just because it was created 1400 years ago doesn't mean anything except that it is the least corrupted out of all of them.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 10:49 PM
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sk0rpi0n

@FlyersFan...You've been proven wrong on all that in other threads.
No. You've only thrown a bunch of opinions at those threads...and in the process demonstrated that you aren't a biblical christian. Also the fact that you used an avatar depicting the ''holy'' cross of christianity in poor light proves you aren't a real christian.


Did I comment on this thread?

Well, for those of you who have taken the shahada, tell me what two names are you calling out? Let's see, one allah, which isn't even a name, and Mohammed.

YOU have to testify (you don't even have to believe it) that allah (which god is this anyway?) is one and that Mohammed is his apostle. And you can't be a Muslim unless you confess it (again, you don't even have to believe it). But let me ask this, how do you know Mohammed is the apostle of allah? You are taking the man's word for it, that's all. And you bow down to a god that you don't know, that never speaks, that barely listens, and that didn't even say that you were guaranteed to go to paradise.

Why is it that you bow down to a god that you don't even know who it is?

But get this....

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: 'To God belongs 99 names, 100 minus 1, anyone who memorizes them will enter Paradise; He (God) is odd (odd number, he is the Only One), and He loves odd numbers (such as 99)'


allah loves numbers, wow. And the odder the better for allah. And you have to memorize them all before going to paradise. Hmm, so to get to go to paradise you have to remember all 99 names, which are attributes, correct?

So let me ask this...if martyrs go to paradise and those who remember all names go to paradise and those whose good works outweigh the bad go to paradise, then why are they going to hell? This is a contradiction in the Quran.


"There is not one among you who shall not pass through hell; such is the absolute decree of your Lord. We will deliver those who fear Us, and leave the wrongdoers there, on their knees." (Sura 19:71-72)


Sooo, martrys go to paradise immediately...but ALL go to hell. Contradiction.


Qur'an (61:10-12) "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement."


He will forgive you, but you still go to hell...contradiction.

So do martyrs go to paradise immediately...or go to hell? Which is it?

And here's the hell of Islam, which is way worse than the Christian hell


"...Those who deny (their Lord), for them will be cut out a garment of Fire. Over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back, and (it will be said), "Taste the Penalty of Burning!" (22:19-22).
"In front of such a one is Hell, and he is given, for drink, boiling fetid water" (14:16).
"In its midst and in the midst of boiling hot water will they wander round!" (55:44).


Soooo, your allah decreed that YOU are destined for hell, regardless of being a martyr or good. Sorry, but your allah has decreed the punishment onto you. Is that the god you believe?



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by 168617
 


Well that book does have one thing to it: It doesnt have numerous translations including the church of england transcribing a testament out of thin air lol
Hell, were there no Shariah fascism, Islam wouldnve never become the subject of world war in the first place except for control of Palestine, which technically no man owns because the earth does not belong to mankind.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 10:57 PM
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WarminIndy

sk0rpi0n

@FlyersFan...You've been proven wrong on all that in other threads.
No. You've only thrown a bunch of opinions at those threads...and in the process demonstrated that you aren't a biblical christian. Also the fact that you used an avatar depicting the ''holy'' cross of christianity in poor light proves you aren't a real christian.


Did I comment on this thread?

Well, for those of you who have taken the shahada, tell me what two names are you calling out? Let's see, one allah, which isn't even a name, and Mohammed.

YOU have to testify (you don't even have to believe it) that allah (which god is this anyway?) is one and that Mohammed is his apostle. And you can't be a Muslim unless you confess it (again, you don't even have to believe it). But let me ask this, how do you know Mohammed is the apostle of allah? You are taking the man's word for it, that's all. And you bow down to a god that you don't know, that never speaks, that barely listens, and that didn't even say that you were guaranteed to go to paradise.

Why is it that you bow down to a god that you don't even know who it is?

But get this....

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: 'To God belongs 99 names, 100 minus 1, anyone who memorizes them will enter Paradise; He (God) is odd (odd number, he is the Only One), and He loves odd numbers (such as 99)'


allah loves numbers, wow. And the odder the better for allah. And you have to memorize them all before going to paradise. Hmm, so to get to go to paradise you have to remember all 99 names, which are attributes, correct?

So let me ask this...if martyrs go to paradise and those who remember all names go to paradise and those whose good works outweigh the bad go to paradise, then why are they going to hell? This is a contradiction in the Quran.


"There is not one among you who shall not pass through hell; such is the absolute decree of your Lord. We will deliver those who fear Us, and leave the wrongdoers there, on their knees." (Sura 19:71-72)


Sooo, martrys go to paradise immediately...but ALL go to hell. Contradiction.


Qur'an (61:10-12) "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement."


He will forgive you, but you still go to hell...contradiction.

So do martyrs go to paradise immediately...or go to hell? Which is it?

And here's the hell of Islam, which is way worse than the Christian hell


"...Those who deny (their Lord), for them will be cut out a garment of Fire. Over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back, and (it will be said), "Taste the Penalty of Burning!" (22:19-22).
"In front of such a one is Hell, and he is given, for drink, boiling fetid water" (14:16).
"In its midst and in the midst of boiling hot water will they wander round!" (55:44).


Soooo, your allah decreed that YOU are destined for hell, regardless of being a martyr or good. Sorry, but your allah has decreed the punishment onto you. Is that the god you believe?


Lovin it, now just do this for bible thumpers and we have a work in progress Codename: Ignorant Literary Works of Man and the reason they are mind control.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 11:01 PM
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FlyersFan....
A foot, a hand, and a head ... all part of ONE BODY .. not three different bodies.
The analogies christians use to explain the trinity keep getting funnier. The Father, son and the holy spirit are all seperate from each other...therefore three seperate beings. Trinitarianism = Polytheism.



And again ... you are off topic. The topic question is ... is the Qu'ran an accurate historical source?

wrong. The topical question is about ''Babylon and magic and Islam'', as the thread title says. Op's main question was regarding the ''magic'' in question..but I guess you didn't see that.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 11:13 PM
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The Quran being a historical account or not was part of the OP, not the whole OP. I was primarily thinking of whether it is allegory about the individual's spiritual journey. In which case I myself might be this thing called "children of Israel" and "Babylon" might be all this stuff I see around me right now, and every morning when I get myself on the bus to work. And Harut and Marut might be Google technicians or whatever. For all I know my computer might only exist in my own mind. In 1984 Winston wondered if he was mentally ill and the word solipsism was mentioned in that book. Why? Because it's a deep philosophical book about spirituality.

And as for this whole thing of "breaking the laws of nature" or "breaking God's laws", again, I feel the same dissatisfaction and urge to pull my hair out, which will only lead me to research the subject more. Maybe this was actually set up for that particular purpose? (maybe reverse psychology as mentioned on page one) So as to be a filter or road block on the spiritual journey, which probably is a benevolent and necessary thing. For the same reason that secret societies have procedures the initiate must pass to qualify for further initiation. To separate the wheat from the chaff.

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Matthew 7:6

Dogs and swine being rather harsh choice of wording, but the point still being communicated.

Maybe we have this in other parts of modern society as well? I have been wondering if psychiatric diagnoses and psychiatric medication such as SSRIs might be like this. One group believes in it, and this is both psychiatric patients and people in general in society. Another part sees through it. It's almost as if you walk up to a door, a man that's guarding the door asks you a couple of questions. In case one the guy walking up to the door is not ready for further initiation, absorbs the info like a sponge, takes the pills and goes back to sleep, i.e. to where he can contribute in accordance with his level. (think exoteric religion) And in case two he sees through it, doesn't take the pills, turns around and seeks. On my spiritual journey I feel like several doors with tests of this kind have come up. They are all around me. And a lot of the time it feels like they're a bunch of thick concrete doors forming an unpenetrable wall.
edit on 38430Sun, 13 Apr 2014 23:38:23 -0500201423pAmerica/Chicago2014-04-13T23:38:23-05:0030 by introspectionist because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 11:21 PM
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sk0rpi0n

FlyersFan....
A foot, a hand, and a head ... all part of ONE BODY .. not three different bodies.
The analogies christians use to explain the trinity keep getting funnier. The Father, son and the holy spirit are all seperate from each other...therefore three seperate beings. Trinitarianism = Polytheism.



And again ... you are off topic. The topic question is ... is the Qu'ran an accurate historical source?

wrong. The topical question is about ''Babylon and magic and Islam'', as the thread title says. Op's main question was regarding the ''magic'' in question..but I guess you didn't see that.


Hmm, so Jesus being the WORD of God MADE flesh, then I would assume that means the Word of God is part of God, right? But then allah has no words because allah doesn't speak. Now that's real magic right there, a god that doesn't speak and didn't even show up, and Mohammed doesn't question why not.

Let's see, God showed up to Abraham (Genesis 18) and God shows up to Moses (Exodus 2) and God speaks to both of them, but doesn't show up or speak to the greatest prophet of all????

Imagine that. Yes, that's real magic there, to convince a bunch of people that an angel just beat him up and told him to recite. Magic. Let's see, did the "angel" beat up Mary? Why no, he didn't. But he sure beat up Mohammed. You know, even Jacob wrestled the angel and the angel put his hip out of joint, but the angel blessed Jacob. When the angel beat up Mohammed, the dude ran away to hide under his blankets, for his wife to tell him it was Gabriel...and yet we don't have any testimony of Khadijah to verify this, only Aisha saying this is what Mohammed told her.

Oh yes, Gabriel just goes around beating up people...no, wait, only Mohammed gets beat up and runs away. Jacob didn't run away and Mary didn't even have to fight. So it makes me wonder who this entity was. And it's pretty good magic.



posted on Apr, 14 2014 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


LMAO you seem to have a knack for making this thread interesting and very common sensic......*fans rave*



posted on Apr, 14 2014 @ 12:09 AM
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WarminIndy

sk0rpi0n

FlyersFan....
A foot, a hand, and a head ... all part of ONE BODY .. not three different bodies.
The analogies christians use to explain the trinity keep getting funnier. The Father, son and the holy spirit are all seperate from each other...therefore three seperate beings. Trinitarianism = Polytheism.



And again ... you are off topic. The topic question is ... is the Qu'ran an accurate historical source?

wrong. The topical question is about ''Babylon and magic and Islam'', as the thread title says. Op's main question was regarding the ''magic'' in question..but I guess you didn't see that.


Hmm, so Jesus being the WORD of God MADE flesh, then I would assume that means the Word of God is part of God, right? But then allah has no words because allah doesn't speak. Now that's real magic right there, a god that doesn't speak and didn't even show up, and Mohammed doesn't question why not.

Let's see, God showed up to Abraham (Genesis 18) and God shows up to Moses (Exodus 2) and God speaks to both of them, but doesn't show up or speak to the greatest prophet of all????

Imagine that. Yes, that's real magic there, to convince a bunch of people that an angel just beat him up and told him to recite. Magic. Let's see, did the "angel" beat up Mary? Why no, he didn't. But he sure beat up Mohammed. You know, even Jacob wrestled the angel and the angel put his hip out of joint, but the angel blessed Jacob. When the angel beat up Mohammed, the dude ran away to hide under his blankets, for his wife to tell him it was Gabriel...and yet we don't have any testimony of Khadijah to verify this, only Aisha saying this is what Mohammed told her.

Oh yes, Gabriel just goes around beating up people...no, wait, only Mohammed gets beat up and runs away. Jacob didn't run away and Mary didn't even have to fight. So it makes me wonder who this entity was. And it's pretty good magic.


This is why believing in man made religious books is an outright failure. All accounts of hand me down stories. You wont find any actual accounts and sources to back them up unless you look in the history isle to which there is no label "religious fiction". I dont recall any history books being labeled "gods word", which makes religious literature fanaticism from the start. Although if you real SOME of that fanaticism is certain ways that are indirect, you may find things that are "unseen by the naked eye".
Wisdom comes from looking behind the curtain, not the person directing traffick.



posted on Apr, 14 2014 @ 06:17 AM
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double post.
edit on 14-4-2014 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




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