300.000 Years Old Hi-Tech Nano Spirals Found In Ural Mountains Still Remain An Unsolved Mystery

irgust
reply to post by bbracken677

 

It does shine a lot and still have a copper color for 300,000 years old, I've seen copper roofs on buildings that are green and are less than 50 years old.

I would not hesitate to say that copper anything would not survive 300,000 or even 100,000 years without massive deterioration unless extremely extraordinary methods were employed to preserve them. Obviously there was no evidence of extraordinary methods of preservation. Something that is the size described in the texts would not be even identifiable in 1000 years of the best of conditions (natural).

bbracken677

168617
reply to post by nighthawk1954

 

I think we are being told one massive lie.

Yeeeaaahhhh... I have to wonder how miniature copper spirals survived 300,000 years. Corrosion...none? Copper? Really? hmmmm

Well if this was discovered as stated and are as old as stated maybe the actual alloy used has something to do with this.

Starting with molybdenum : Molybdenum is a transition metal with an electronegativity of 2.16 on the Pauling scale and a standard atomic weight of 95.95 g/mol.[12][13] It does not visibly react with oxygen or water at room temperature, and the bulk oxidation occurs at temperatures above 600 °C . It should also be noted that this element has the 6th highest melting any of any element.


Now on to tungsten : Elemental tungsten resists attack by oxygen, acids, and alkalis. The free element is remarkable for its robustness, especially the fact that it has the highest melting point of all the elements. Also remarkable is its high density of 19.3 times that of water, comparable to that of uranium and gold, and much higher (about 1.7 times) than that of lead.[4] Tungsten with minor amounts of impurities is often brittle[5] and hard, making it difficult to work.

Now copper : Copper does not react with water but it does slowly react with atmospheric oxygen to form a layer of brown-black copper oxide which, unlike the rust which forms when iron is exposed to moist air, protects the underlying copper from more extensive corrosion. A green layer of verdigris (copper carbonate) can often be seen on old copper constructions such as the Statue of Liberty.[9] Copper tarnishes when exposed to sulfides, which react with it to form various copper sulfides.


So if these were buried as stated that could possibly explain the lack of corrosion. Such it is such an interesting "Alloy" I decided to look up some uses for this particular blend . "Alloy" is in quotes because turns out copper and tungsten don't make a true alloy. Its more of a metal matrix.

So in a sense its not really a reactive mixture of metals, and if truly buried even the copper would be protected from oxidation without help from the other supporting metals. But we have to take into account that these other metals are present and are not very reactive and are remarkably tough.

Hopes that helps with your question.

Sincerly,
Devils Advocate

irgust
reply to post by bbracken677

 

It does shine a lot and still have a copper color for 300,000 years old, I've seen copper roofs on buildings that are green and are less than 50 years old.

Check out my above post it may help shed light on why copper roofs appear this way after 50 years



And why it looks like this in its natural form.



In case you don't want to read my whole post this is the explanation.

Copper does not react with water but it does slowly react with atmospheric oxygen to form a layer of brown-black copper oxide which, unlike the rust which forms when iron is exposed to moist air, protects the underlying copper from more extensive corrosion. A green layer of verdigris (copper carbonate) can often be seen on old copper constructions such as the Statue of Liberty.[9] Copper tarnishes when exposed to sulfides, which react with it to form various copper sulfides.

So if they were truely buried they may have been protected from atmospheric oxygen . Just playing devils advocate

reply to post by CitizenJack


Umm...no

You make decent points regarding the alloy....but it is an alloy. Copper corrodes, and even if you managed to reduce the corrosion rate to extremely low rates, it is rather easy to calculate the destruction of the objects over 100,000 years, let alone 300,000.

I do not know the ratios involved in the alloy, if there is an alloy involved, so I cannot make a "SWAG" regarding corrosion rates. However, if even at exceedingly low rates over hundreds of thousands of years even a low corrosion rate would add up making the small items .. disappear.

Ever seen bronze swords that are only a couple thousand years old?

Nickel has about the lowest corrosion rate of the metals (not sure about the rare earth elements) and there is no way that a copper/nickel alloy would last 100,000 years in any natural environment....not given the size and complexity of the items from the article. I say BS with full and unadulterated confidence. This may be why no one else wants to "study" the objects in question.

You do know that oxygen is present in clays, correct?

It is not thousands of years old... like I said you can't simply date that stuff.
If you try to analyse it, it will give you the age of the minderals that had been used, of couse it will give you thousands of years, but does that mean it has to be that old?
No, it simply means the matrial is that old, not the item itself.

reply to post by Majestic Lumen


Yes , exactly like a string... Nice call..

aLLeKs
It is not thousands of years old... like I said you can't simply date that stuff.
If you try to analyse it, it will give you the age of the minderals that had been used, of couse it will give you thousands of years, but does that mean it has to be that old?
No, it simply means the matrial is that old, not the item itself.

In the case of dating a stone, or mineral or metal, you would date organic (carbon bearing) material found in the same general strata as the finding. There you would get an age. I assume that is how they dated the objects.

I still do not believe the objects are 300k years old or anything close to it. But that is my opinion....

What happens to clay in 300k years?

Perhaps there is other info involved that I am not privy to...but given what I have read and seen, I call shenanigans.

reply to post by bbracken677



Actually tungsten and copper do produce a pseudo alloy aka metal matrix as I stated. Not a true alloy.

Copper–tungsten (tungsten–copper, CuW, or WCu) alloy is a pseudo-alloy of copper and tungsten. As copper and tungsten are not mutually soluble, the material is composed of distinct particles of one metal dispersed in a matrix of the other one. The microstructure is therefore rather a metal matrix composite instead of a true alloy.

However that is besides the point.
You asked if oxygen was present in clay?

Clay is the smallest soil particle and because it is so small, the particles compact closer to each other leaving smaller spaces, or pores, for water or air between the clay particles. Because clay soil has smaller pores than sand, clay soil holds water in and the water may not drain out very fast. When soil is soggy, there is less space for oxygen in the soil, according to Texas A&M AgriLife Extension.

Clay – Clay particles are flat, plate-like, negatively charged particles. They are so tiny in size that it takes 12,000 clay particles in a line to make one inch. Clay feels sticky to the touch. Soils with as little as 20% clay size particles behave like a sticky clayey soil. Soils with high clay content have good water and nutrient holding capacity, but the lack of large pore space restricts water and air movement. Clayey soils are also rather prone to compaction issues.

The short answer is not very much.

But these were not found in clay going back to the "actual" story these were found in gravel and detritus deposits. This is stated in the second paragraph of the story. So actually that gives your argument more credibility than using the term clay. As these layers would be more porous they would tend to have more oxygen present than any clay strata. However as stated for the sake of constructive conversation I'm playing devils advocate. I'm not saying your right or I'm right or insulting anyone, just discussing the topic with the available knowledge and data.

Thank you all for your replies, I believe that there are things that will continue to defy our modern standards, and I am also convinced that we as a species, have very little to no interest in truly learning form our past mistakes or from our hubris, we are not invincible in the current state we are in, we live divided and disconnected, from ourselves and our ancestors, like in a bubble, and somehow, other humanities have lived the same way, and only rocks remain of them as surely will be all that is left of our "modern" societies...

the question is why does it keep on happening?

one day we will get our answers and we wont like them...

cheers!

With no real evidence backing me up, I believe spirals are natural, by nature, with the fibonacci sequence, and all, like the golden ratio... I'm just saying, couldn't this be some kind of natural occurrence, that we haven't seen before?

reply to post by japhrimu


... AND I'm just now reading the previous posts, so I might have my answer without knowing it...

reply to post by CitizenJack


hmmph! I thought I read they were in clay. So much for reading comprehension.....

Anyways...I am not hugely sciency in that area. I have a degree in Geology but this is one facet I have never looked it. It is more in the archaeologists sand box.

At any rate, my opinion is simply that given the information I think there is some hokum going on there... 300,000 years is a long time for something that can corrode, no matter how slowly, to still exist. And when I consider the size of the items like...holy cow! Were they packed in styrofoam by any chance? LOL

(well, they do say the stuff lasts forever!! That's my story and I am sticking with it!)

reply to post by LightningStrikesHere


These instantly remind me of the Dendera Lightbulbs of Ancient Egypt:

Dendera Lightbulbs

Being that they were made of metals, they could have been pumped full of electricity to create light or used as circuits. However, I wonder where they are getting their dating from. Wish they revealed more about the dating methods used. Or was it based on the rocks found around them? If ancient alien beings were responsible for these, they may have been brought here at another time not as ancient as 100,000 years ago.

S&F

reply to post by bbracken677


Its all good no worries I like to investigate various aspect of certain interesting stories I come across on ATS from time to time.
No one was talking about the fact that these should have corroded except you so I thought hmm... I'm going to check into this. And I found some interesting facts regarding the metals that these are reportedly made from so I thought I would share them.

I've actually enjoyed most of the exchanges of ideas and knowledge that I've had on here. Including ours. It is nice to talk to someone with a degree in geology so dont be surprised if I ever hit you up for advice on one of my fact searches.

Back to the topic on hand, I do have to lean towards funny business here as I've read the official story has changed several time but I am a sucker for a cinderella story so I thought I would try to lend support to the other side for the sake of argument. However I do not have a definitive yes or no opinion on this matter I reluctantly remain on the fence .

But I will say you are more logical than I to say hold on, and call shenanigans. I just love me a good mystery.

LightningStrikesHere

168617
reply to post by nighthawk1954

 

I think we are being told one massive lie.

I do feel that history does need to re written..
I can't help but to wonder why it seems people & things of the past ...just seemed to vanish with hardly any evidence or solid record ..it's open for innovation i suppose

edit on 0116063041146th by LightningStrikesHere because: (no reason given)

According to The Thiaoouba Prophecy we have only been on this planet for 1.3 million years and previously 8 million years on the planet Bhakaratini co-inhabited by the black and yellow race. They had a nuclear war and eventually had to come to Earth once the interior of thief planet could no longer sustain an atmosphere. These nanotubes were more than likely created by our anciant ancestors. Read TP and be enlightened on practically all mysteries of the lost continents of Lemuria and Atlantis

reply to post by Thiaoouba Prophecy


Our Nano Ancestors.

I could swear this was debunked before as industrial waste, and was "discovered" in a area the people that found it didn't know it was a landfill or "unofficial" industrial dump site.

LightningStrikesHere
I do feel that history does need to re written..

And who gets to do that? A dangerous invitation.

reply to post by MrSpad


I'm sure that the top scientists we have from all over the world will be sent to examine this new finding that could possible re-write our history. All costs will be payed by governments.

reply to post by nighthawk1954



I would say 'don't believe everything you read or see on the Internet'

What is so nano-tech about those bits and pieces?

You can find these types of metal pieces anywhere really.. just go dig in your back garden and you will probably find something similar.