Russia trying to 'dismember' Ukraine through protests, Kiev says

I love it when Russia lips off and gets bitten on the butt for it.

US May Accelerate Deployment of Missile Defense System in Poland

The military could speed up deployment of a land-based missile defense shield in Europe to hem in a resurgent Russia, the Navy 3-star in charge of the U.S. Missile Defense Agency said in early April.

Russian President Vladimir Putin declared the treaty obsolete in 2007, though it has never been formally scrapped. Russia has vehemently objected to the deployment of missile shields in central Europe, even threatening to use "destructive force" if the shields are put in place.

So Putin tells the west to piss off with regards to military affairs inside Russia while at the same time denouncing plans for the NMD system to be deployed in Poland - again. I am not sure what Putin's issue is being those countries are sovereign and what occurs inside their borders is their business and not Russia's.

As has been stated before, the game plan Putin is running is continuing to have the exact opposite affect.

reply to post by Xcathdra


As you said "The law should be signed in the next 48 hours". You do know that after this law passes parliament that president has to sign it? Well, he didn't .. so here you go.

reply to post by ElohimJD


the user after you posted pdf of the agreement. Agreement itself doesn't revert constitution, it's a process that needs approval of the parliament and must be signed by president. The one who signed this law was Turchinov but he's not elected president and not an acting president since vote count didn't get to 75% of the parliament which is minimum. It got to 72,88 and they said they can live with that (even though it's against the law).

P.S.: Yanukovich did say that he flee because he was afraid for his life. He said it in the first appearance he had after he ran.

And some new info from the reliable source: Ukrainian government sent an army to the Doneck and they are expected to attack this night. They plan to shoot as many protesters as possible and force them to surrender. We are talking about genocide against Ukrainians in the South East of Ukraine (like many members of the current government said many times that they want to do).

And the only thing they are asking for is the referendum to decide if their region should become a federation or not. They didn't kill anyone, they didn't burn the buildings and people. Police just moved away and they walked in. While protesters in Kiev killed people and they were acquitted of all of the crimes they committed. If we are talking about democracy, referendum is the right way to go. Instead they want to kill them, as member of Svoboda party said yesterday in the interview.

Russians are on the border and the minute the genocide will start, they will walk in. If country needs any reason to put it's army in another country, this is the right one. And Yanukovich already signed and sent a letter to Russian government and asked them for help (there's a lot of info that he's already in Doneck). Since he's the legal president, Russia has to obey because of all the agreements they have.

P.S.: and if anyone is interested, here's a stream from Doneck. Stream
P.S.2: That stream was cut off. Here is another one. Stream 2
P.S.3: Here's stream from Lugansk. Army just arrived there and people along with a priest made a ring around protesters. Stream 3

baburak
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

As you said "The law should be signed in the next 48 hours". You do know that after this law passes parliament that president has to sign it? Well, he didn't .. so here you go.

It was... As I stated if you read the agreement the President signature on the agreement reinstated the 2004 constitution. The Parliament then held a vote to formalize it. No other signature was needed on the document. Even RT states it goes into effect within 48 hours of Yanukovych signing the agreement.

The 2004 Constitution is in place lawfully and signed off on by Yanukovych the moment he signed the agreement.

Even Yanukovych is coming to his sense and is seeing Russian was using him to invade Ukraine. Has anyone heard from him since he had his media interview with western media where he stated Crimea belongs to Ukraine.

Xcathdra
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Even Yanukovych is coming to his sense and is seeing Russian was using him to invade Ukraine.

It's not as if the junta in Kiev and it's nationalist assault on eastern Ukrainians had anything to do with Crimea joining Russia...

Vovin
It's not as if the junta in Kiev and it's nationalist assault on eastern Ukrainians had anything to do with Crimea joining Russia..

You would be correct, Kiev had nothing to do with Russia's invasion of Crimea.

I enjoy how you ignored what the former President stated about Crimea though. As I have stated time and again you use sources when it supports your propaganda then you refuse to use it, and discount it, when it does not suit the lie.

Russia used the issue in Kiev to invade Ukraine. They used the former President as justification to invade Ukraine. Ironically enough there were no reports of Russians being attacked in Crimea and Russia has still failed to provide the evidence requested by the UN. If Russians are in that much danger in Ukraine, what makes the ones in Crimea so much more important than the ones in South / East Ukraine? or those in W. Ukraine, where they are very much outnumbered by Ukrainians.

A question that you, others and Putin have all avoided answering for obvious reasons.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I am quite aware of what Yanukovich had to say, when he said it. What I don't understand is why I should care about this guy. He fled while he was still acting president to Russia, expecting sanctuary away from the fascists... But he should have never left Kiev. He should have shown some balls and used his executive authority to squash the fascists like the cockroaches they are. Things would have been different.

Ukrainians were right to rally against him since he was a weak leader. However, Ukraine and Russia will always be culturally and geopolitically connected. The fascist minority completely usurped the social-democratic protest movement, formed a junta, and has worked in tandem with the west to make Ukraine as much as a nuisance as possible for Russia.

Yanukovich's failure as a strong leader led to this situation. Cultural attack from Kiev led to this situation. There's an old crazed woman in the current Parliament who had proposed the "Ukrainian-language only" bill that was designed to discriminate against and take liberty away from Russian-speaking Ukrainians. That bill was the catalyst for Crimean independence.

Now, the same old woman was on camera saying that all the separatists in east Ukraine should be killed. It's neo-nazi rhetoric like that that is driving Ukraine apart while also just trolling Russia to formally intervene.

Vovin
I am quite aware of what Yanukovich had to say, when he said it. What I don't understand is why I should care about this guy.

So now that he is not towing the official Putin line, he is no longer of relevance to your position / argument?

Vovin
He fled while he was still acting president to Russia, expecting sanctuary away from the fascists... But he should have never left Kiev. He should have shown some balls and used his executive authority to squash the fascists like the cockroaches they are. Things would have been different.

Yanukovych has stated numerous times he did not flee.. Putin is the one pushing the fleeing remark. So which is it? Is Yanukovych lying or is Putin lying?

Vovin
Ukrainians were right to rally against him since he was a weak leader. However, Ukraine and Russia will always be culturally and geopolitically connected. The fascist minority completely usurped the social-democratic protest movement, formed a junta, and has worked in tandem with the west to make Ukraine as much as a nuisance as possible for Russia.

Which is not much comfort to those Ukrainians who are trapped behind enemy lines in Crimea. Its also not a comfort to those Ukrainians living in south and East Ukraine with 40l Russian troops on the border.

Facist Minority? You seem to be changing your position. Please tell me who is in the minority and who is a fascist.

Vovin
Yanukovich's failure as a strong leader led to this situation. Cultural attack from Kiev led to this situation. There's an old crazed woman in the current Parliament who had proposed the "Ukrainian-language only" bill that was designed to discriminate against and take liberty away from Russian-speaking Ukrainians. That bill was the catalyst for Crimean independence.

Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. Putin is to blame. Yanukovych is to blame.

Vovin
Now, the same old woman was on camera saying that all the separatists in east Ukraine should be killed. It's neo-nazi rhetoric like that that is driving Ukraine apart while also just trolling Russia to formally intervene.

Yes its nearly as bad as the same Russian woman popping up in the same news broadcasts in Russia where she seems to have different names and live in each area where "crimes against Russians" occurred. Good thing she is paid by Moscow otherwise RT would have issues explaining why they are disseminating propaganda.

This is actually getting pretty funny.

Does anybody else get a feeling that Xcathdra is acting like a chat bot?

It absolutely does not matter what is actually said, it simply keeps repeating the same stuff over and over again, like a machine...

reply to post by Xcathdra


Why should I waste my time telling you anything? I could post hundreds of reports, photos and videos and you would completely ignore it all. You have your cemented agenda and I couldn't care less about trying to change it.

renden
This is actually getting pretty funny.

Does anybody else get a feeling that Xcathdra is acting like a chat bot?

It absolutely does not matter what is actually said, it simply keeps repeating the same stuff over and over again, like a machine...

Cant refute facts you attack the poster... Just like Russias invasion of Ukraine.

You have anything on topic?

Vovin
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Why should I waste my time telling you anything? I could post hundreds of reports, photos and videos and you would completely ignore it all. You have your cemented agenda and I couldn't care less about trying to change it.

Then do it.. You made the claims, you supposedly have the sources to back it up..

post them.

renden
This is actually getting pretty funny.

Does anybody else get a feeling that Xcathdra is acting like a chat bot?

It absolutely does not matter what is actually said, it simply keeps repeating the same stuff over and over again, like a machine...

He has his textbook with his commands on what trigger words to employ (Russian military buildup / 2004 Ukrainian constitution / "stop making excuses for Putin"), when to denounce others for using a source and then claim the same source as gospel when he uses it (like RT), what threads to stay in and what threads to avoid since there are already other operators there...

This guy has been playing the exact same pro-US / anti-everybody-else-unless-they-are-convenient cards for years. It's quite obvious as to what's going on.

Xcathdra

Vovin
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Why should I waste my time telling you anything? I could post hundreds of reports, photos and videos and you would completely ignore it all. You have your cemented agenda and I couldn't care less about trying to change it.

Then do it.. You made the claims, you supposedly have the sources to back it up..

post them.

I already told you that you're a waste of time. Go harass somebody else.

reply to post by Vovin


Cant refute the facts.. You don't provide sources for your claims.. you attack the poster and post as if they are not even in the thread.

and you question my reason for being involved in a conversation with people who are exactly the same as they accuse me of.

Ironic.

I don't agree with your positions. I don't agree with Putin's actions. I don't accept the claims Russia has made to justify their unwarranted invasion of Ukraine.

This is not a game, something you and the others need to get through your heads. You want to convince me Russia is right, then do so using logic and facts and not propaganda and personal attacks.

It is as simple as that.

Vovin

Xcathdra

Vovin
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Why should I waste my time telling you anything? I could post hundreds of reports, photos and videos and you would completely ignore it all. You have your cemented agenda and I couldn't care less about trying to change it.

Then do it.. You made the claims, you supposedly have the sources to back it up..

post them.

I already told you that you're a waste of time. Go harass somebody else.

again - When faced with the facts you cant refute, you resort to personal attacks and demand I go somewhere else. That mindset may work with the mindless automatons in Russia, but it does not work here with me. Its one of the pillars of a democratic society.. People able to disagree with the government position and calling them out when needed. Only a mindset like Putin's would resort to telling someone who does not agree with them to go elsewhere.

If you are so correct in your position, then support it with facts instead of "claims" and personal attacks.

You are capable of that are you not?

Xcathdra
reply to post by Vovin

 

Cant refute the facts.. You don't provide sources for your claims.. you attack the poster and post as if they are not even in the thread.

and you question my reason for being involved in a conversation with people who are exactly the same as they accuse me of.

Ironic.

I don't agree with your positions. I don't agree with Putin's actions. I don't accept the claims Russia has made to justify their unwarranted invasion of Ukraine.

This is not a game, something you and the others need to get through your heads. You want to convince me Russia is right, then do so using logic and facts and not propaganda and personal attacks.

It is as simple as that.

So many times I've asked you to prove the invasion of Crimea and the imminent invasion of Ukraine, and you've failed to do so because there is no real evidence to back up your claims- just some sources providing boring rhetoric from proven liars like NATO and the US government. And then you carry on your narrative of events as if it's never been questioned.

And then you whine about me personally attacking you? Every post you make is a personal attack.

And you admitted several times that you support fascists, if not proud to be one yourself. I think that's one good reason to not want to cooperate with you because, in all honesty, I hate fascist scum.

Vovin
So many times I've asked you to prove the invasion of Crimea and the imminent invasion of Ukraine, and you've failed to do so because there is no real evidence to back up your claims- just some sources providing boring rhetoric from proven liars like NATO and the US government. And then you carry on your narrative of events as if it's never been questioned.

I have actually.. you would need to go back to those specific threads and read the posts.

Vovin
And then you whine about me personally attacking you? Every post you make is a personal attack.

No really its not. My posts are directed at Russia and the over all situation. Your posts, and others, are directed at me and you go about doing it in the forum as if I am not even in the thread. Referring to someone in 3rd person is in fact attacking them personally. You guys do this when you cant refute a point made. You then do what you are doing now, demand I provide evidence for items I already have, and we get locked into this circular loop.

It would be easier and more constructive to link to the source when you post. You don't bother doing that.

Vovin
And you admitted several times that you support fascists, if not proud to be one yourself. I think that's one good reason to not want to cooperate with you because, in all honesty, I hate fascist scum.

Actually I have stated several times I don't support Fascists, but once again thank you for proving my point about your intent and actions in the thread. You cant even discuss the topic without resorting to false claims against me.

If you and the others can support your position you would have done so, immediately, to end the the conversation. Instead you don't, you engage in the back and forth while launching personal attacks because you cannot refute the facts presented.

Its the same tactic Russia used in Crimea for the elections. They treat those who are Pro Ukrainian like crap in hopes they shut up and don't say a word.

That tactic will not work with me in these threads.

so either engage and support your claims / position or we can continue with these round robin fames here I present evidence, sources and facts while you guys go in circles.

Vovin

Xcathdra

Vovin
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Why should I waste my time telling you anything? I could post hundreds of reports, photos and videos and you would completely ignore it all. You have your cemented agenda and I couldn't care less about trying to change it.

Then do it.. You made the claims, you supposedly have the sources to back it up..

post them.

I already told you that you're a waste of time. Go harass somebody else.

Thank you for proving my point.

Do you have anything on topic or are you still in the personal attack stage?