Russia trying to 'dismember' Ukraine through protests, Kiev says

reply to post by Xcathdra


Sorry man think i just see a radicaly different situation than you do. For the last few months ive been watching thousands of people in the streets of major cities at war with a force that very much look like the military, who just assumed control of the government by way of a military coup.

This is not normal, think theres broader issues at work here with the people, but for what its worth, any of the pro russian demonstrators seem more than likely comprised of local cartels, foot ball leagues, proper hard guys that can scrap with the lesser adapted peoples on working in the petrol bomb factory.

Major cities have been pretty much a constant war zone between the civilians of these cities and the police/military. And a lot of it is being carried out because of some under lying frustration with a system of government that if your honest probably have some doubts about the government yourself, even more so if something like military took over the government. Thats always a worry im sure.

looks like the people are content with being in the Russian House,,,




Will that make a difference to Western and Euro-peon interest's,,,no. It never has.

Vovin

renden
This is actually getting pretty funny.

Does anybody else get a feeling that Xcathdra is acting like a chat bot?

It absolutely does not matter what is actually said, it simply keeps repeating the same stuff over and over again, like a machine...

He has his textbook with his commands on what trigger words to employ (Russian military buildup / 2004 Ukrainian constitution / "stop making excuses for Putin"), when to denounce others for using a source and then claim the same source as gospel when he uses it (like RT), what threads to stay in and what threads to avoid since there are already other operators there...

This guy has been playing the exact same pro-US / anti-everybody-else-unless-they-are-convenient cards for years. It's quite obvious as to what's going on.

edit on 10-4-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)

Dang, I wonder how much he's getting payed then. While he's worthless at actually guiding the topic, he is very persistent at flat out trolling and spaming the topic by simply repeating the same crap over and over again

Xcathdra


The officials in Kiev's Parliament were in fact elected by the people. So no coup occurred there.

That is a facetious and a bold faced lie.

Lier lier pants of fire.

How does ATS tolerate flat out lairs??

So I can post what ever lies I want here with out any repercussions what so ever?

OK then, Obama is a reptilian shape shifter who is set on drinking blood of Crimean babies, read all about it, it's all true I tell you, cuz I said so.

Don't ask me to prove anything though, it's all way above top secret and requires no proof what so ever.

Xcathdra
How many troops are in Crimea? 20-30k...
Crimea is on Ukraine's border is it not?

Russia has 1500 troops in Transnistria....
Transnistria is on Ukraine's border is it not?

How many Russian units are on the east border of Ukraine? 40-80k...

PROVE IT!!!!

Show a SINGLE picture of all those forces, a single pic with a geographical location, all those satellites and not a single sat coord?

Laughable!

Just because you can make letters magically appear in a forum window, it doesn't make your delusions any more real.

When Russia does invade Ukraine what will be your response then? Will you continue to maintain those forces were not present from the start? Or will you find some other way to try and justify without admitting you were wrong?

How about this, when Russia doesn't invade Ukraine, ban your self.

reply to post by renden


March 4th 2014 -

Putin appears to blink in Ukraine

Putin said massive military maneuvers Russia had been executing on the Ukraine border, involving 150,000 troops, had been previously planned and were unrelated to the political upheaval in Ukraine. Russia announced that Putin had ordered the troops back to their bases.

In an hour-long meeting with reporters Tuesday, Putin said Russia had no intention of annexing Crimea and that people there have the right to determine their status in a referendum later this month. Crimean tensions, Putin said, "have been settled."

April 3rd 2014

Russia says troops to pull back from Ukraine border

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday offered further assurances that his country was not on the verge of invading eastern Ukraine, telling reporters that Russian troops "will be returning to the place of their permanent quarters as soon as" military exercises close to the two nations' shared border wrapped up.



Lavrov, however, accused the Ukrainian government "and their patrons in the West of blowing this out of proportion," adding that Russia did not violate any international norms by sending additional troops to its own borders. U.S. Air Force Gen. Philip M. Breedlove, who commands all NATO forces in Europe, said Russia has 40,000 troops along the border with neighboring Ukraine, and that they are capable of attacking by land and air on 12 hours' notice.

Earlier this week, NATO downplayed reports of a Russian troop withdrawal from areas along its border with Ukraine. Russia's Defense Ministry on Monday said one battalion -- about 500 troops -- had pulled back.

April 9th 2014 -
Russia dismisses concerns in West, Ukraine over troops near border

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia on Wednesday dismissed as "groundless" concerns in Kiev and the West over the presence of its troops near the border with Ukraine, saying they posed no threat, and accused Washington and NATO of fuelling tension in the region.

What do we know about Russia's troop buildup on Ukraine's border?

Russia:

Russia's Defense Ministry says it is carrying out snap military exercises in its southern and western districts. The numbers it says are involved in the drills -- due to run until the end of March -- are much smaller than those cited by Washington or Kiev.

• One Russian infantry battalion is being withdrawn from Russia's southern Rostov region, having finished military exercises, state news agency ITAR-Tass reported Monday. It is returning to its base in the Samara region, hundreds of miles from the border, the outlet said, citing Russia's Defense Ministry. It's not clear how many soldiers are concerned, but a battalion would typically number in the hundreds.

• On March 13, Russia said that about 8,500 members of artillery units were training in the southern military district, using weaponry including multiple rocket launchers, howitzers and anti-tank cannons.

• These artillery exercises are taking place in the Rostov, Belgorod, Kursk and Tambov regions, all near the border with Ukraine.

• On March 11, the Defense Ministry said about 4,000 paratroopers were taking part in airborne exercises in Russia's western military district, including the Kursk region, which borders Ukraine.

• Russia also had about 22,000 troops in Crimea as of last week, according to President Vladimir Putin. Up to 25,000 were allowed in Crimea under the terms of Russia's lease of the Sevastopol naval base there.

UPDATE 2-Russia dismisses concerns in West, Ukraine over troops near border

MOSCOW, April 9 (Reuters) - Russia on Wednesday dismissed as "groundless" concerns in Kiev and the West over the presence of its troops near the border with Ukraine, saying they posed no threat, and accused Washington and NATO of fuelling tension in the region.

The Foreign Ministry also said Moscow has shunned a meeting of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) this week in Vienna, sought by Washington and Kiev over their concerns about Russia's military presence on the border.

Russia Expands Troop Buildup on Ukraine Border

Russia has bolstered its forces on Ukraine's eastern borders in defiance of NATO and pledges to Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, the Pentagon's chief spokesman said Thursday.

"They continue to reinforce and it's unclear what the intent is," said Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary. Kirby declined to give estimates on the size of the Russian force or comment directly on the charge by Rep. Mike Turner, R-Ohio, that the Russians have 80,000 troops amassed on the border.

On background, White House officials have estimated the size of the Russian force in the range of 30,000 troops.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Defense Minister Sergei Shoygu have stated that the Russian troops were engaged in "spring exercises" and there were no designs for a repeat of the Crimea takeover in eastern Ukraine.

What's interesting is Russia's response. If you note, they are not disputing they have troops on the border of Ukraine and they are also not contesting the number of troops being reported.

They just keep stating its an exercise and that the troops will return to base - at some point.


Recap -
* - 25k troops in Crimea
* - 8500 artillery troops - Just artillery and on "training maneuvers" on Ukraine's East border.
* -1500 troops on border in Transnistria
* - Just with the blatant confirmation by Russia with the numbers above accounts for 36k +/-
* - Medical units are also being deployed along the border, which is not done for maneuvers Russia has described.
* - Add in the intelligence amounts and you get your numbers.

Moscow has not moved to dismiss the claims, only that they are maneuvers and they will not invade Ukraine.

From the Russia declares war on Ukraine thread -

ProfessorT

There are now lots of pictures popping up on Twitter. Apparently journalists have found a large number of military bases, field hospitals and communication equipment.

Fake fake fake, made up, make belief, false, BS, media propaganda garbage.

Total fabrication.

It sickens me that Americans have been brainwashed to the point of being fed total info garbage and eat it up hook line and sinker, like bottom feeding fish.

NATO's images of Russian troops allegedly deployed on Ukrainian borders were taken in August 2013 - Russian Military

"In reality, the images released by NATO show units of Russia's Southern Military District taking part in various exercises last summer, including near the borders with Ukraine," the source said.
Read more: voiceofrussia.com... n-in-August-2013-Russian-Military-7155/

voiceofrussia.com... n-in-August-2013-Russian-Military-7155/

It's the same old fabricated, war mongering false flag crap, and the only ones left that eat it up are the backwards brainwashed sheeple.

reply to post by renden


Yup just like how they used the same images to fool us that Saddam had WMDs in Iraq and were even moving them into Syria?

This is just getting crazy now,we all know the victor rewrites history but how the hell is the west blaming this all on Russia?


We get a legit vid show up from live leak showing Russians who captured a man firing on them,who turns up to be an American merc (slayer recently posted a thread on American Mercs over there)

Then within a short time a Luton bigot posts lies so big even tony Blair would blush about Russian sf being caught and a spy with his spy documents lol to divert attention from the legit video

Three amigos,you need to get your focus back on this great site you created that many have used for our news before other news agencies because at the moment your allowing too many bare faced lies to be written here

Something is utterly wrong,needs your attention

Video reported as showing Odessa police squaring off against Right Sector. Then junta special forces "Alpha" arrive and kidnap presidential candidate Oleg Tsarnev. Then the locals attack the junta forces as they leave.

Vovin
Video reported as showing Odessa police squaring off against Right Sector. Then junta special forces "Alpha" arrive and kidnap presidential candidate Oleg Tsarnev. Then the locals attack the junta forces as they leave.

Actually Alpha didn't kidnap him .. they helped him. Right Sector attacked, but citizens and Alpha helped. Members of Alpha said today that they had orders to attack protesters in Doneck just before the arrival of Yatzenyuk .. but they refused it since it' illegal to use force against peaceful citizens. Most of them resigned since they can't recognize government that is trying to kill peaceful people for protesting

Russian media are reporting that CIA director John Brennan held a secret meeting with Kiev junta recently where it was decided that Kiev should initiate the large-scale "counter terrorism" operation that was announced yesterday.

Article also mentions that SBU (Ukraine security service) is now an extension of the CIA- not surprising considering that the SBU HQ has been flying an American flag for weeks now. Oh, and the fact that John McCain's best friend who is the radical leader of Svoboda also used to be the director of SBU.

The truth is coming out as separatist movement grows by the thousands every day, with cities turning away from Kiev faster than the fascist gangs can deploy to riot in them.

The Americans manufactured this mess and now the Ukrainians are cleaning it up the way they've always wanted it. They should ship all the fascists out of the country and send them somewhere like New York or Washington, since they are such nice people.

reply to post by Vovin


Got anything other than anonymous contacts and unsubstantiated reporting?

Xcathdra
reply to post by Vovin

 

Got anything other than anonymous contacts and unsubstantiated reporting?

And what exactly does "substantiated" mean to you anyway?

If you really care about these people then you should be reading what they themselves are reporting.

Vovin

Xcathdra
reply to post by Vovin

 

Got anything other than anonymous contacts and unsubstantiated reporting?

And what exactly does "substantiated" mean to you anyway?

If you really care about these people then you should be reading what they themselves are reporting.

When I see some of the same people with different names in various Russian media outlets making claims about supposed injuries they sustained at the hand of Ukrainians in different areas, I want info that can be verified and substantiated.

Just as you guys demand proof for claims from the west, I want proof on the claims from the east.

Reference my comment all Russian media sources I have seen have stated the CIA info has come from "unnamed sources inside the Ukrainian government" and that the CIA visist information was not substantiated.

So - Even Russian media is stating the information is not confirmed.

Back to the point of my post -
Got anything other than anonymous contacts and unsubstantiated reporting?

Xcathdra

Vovin

Xcathdra
reply to post by Vovin

 

Got anything other than anonymous contacts and unsubstantiated reporting?

And what exactly does "substantiated" mean to you anyway?

If you really care about these people then you should be reading what they themselves are reporting.

When I see some of the same people with different names in various Russian media outlets making claims about supposed injuries they sustained at the hand of Ukrainians in different areas, I want info that can be verified and substantiated.

Just as you guys demand proof for claims from the west, I want proof on the claims from the east.

Reference my comment all Russian media sources I have seen have stated the CIA info has come from "unnamed sources inside the Ukrainian government" and that the CIA visist information was not substantiated.

So - Even Russian media is stating the information is not confirmed.

Back to the point of my post -
Got anything other than anonymous contacts and unsubstantiated reporting?

Same names... So people like high ranking Russian officials whose job it is to make high-stake statements that affect international policy?

And by the way I don't know why you're trolling me with your demands as if I'm going to suddenly pull up some magic CNN video that confirms reports contrary to the western agenda. If you don't like the sources then don't read them, don't comment on them and go somewhere else if all you're going to do is whine about sources you don't like.

Vovin

Same names... So people like high ranking Russian officials whose job it is to make high-stake statements that affect international policy?

As usualy you missed the point. You have Russian citizens pretending to be Ukrainian citizens, claiming they suffered injuries at the hands of Ukrainians. These "people" have shown up on different media outlets (Russian) using different names, claiming different injuries.

in other words Russian media is playing masterpiece theatre and is not presenting factual information.

Vovin
And by the way I don't know why you're trolling me with your demands as if I'm going to suddenly pull up some magic CNN video that confirms reports contrary to the western agenda. If you don't like the sources then don't read them, don't comment on them and go somewhere else if all you're going to do is whine about sources you don't like.

A typical response from a person who cant support the claims made.

By the way, you never provided a source. Hence the reason for my question.

Feel free to keep obfuscating though. Unlike some of the mindless Russian automatons, people outside of Russia want evidence to consider the claims made, me included.

Any time you post, I will respond and continue demanding you support the claims and provide sources. This is not one of those instances where what you say goes and people should not question it. If that's what you are looking for may I suggest you go to the Russian equivalent of this site (provided you can find any actually access one).

Xcathdra

Vovin

Same names... So people like high ranking Russian officials whose job it is to make high-stake statements that affect international policy?

As usualy you missed the point. You have Russian citizens pretending to be Ukrainian citizens, claiming they suffered injuries at the hands of Ukrainians. These "people" have shown up on different media outlets (Russian) using different names, claiming different injuries.

Where? Show me.

Xcathdra

Vovin

Same names... So people like high ranking Russian officials whose job it is to make high-stake statements that affect international policy?

As usualy you missed the point. You have Russian citizens pretending to be Ukrainian citizens, claiming they suffered injuries at the hands of Ukrainians. These "people" have shown up on different media outlets (Russian) using different names, claiming different injuries.

in other words Russian media is playing masterpiece theatre and is not presenting factual information.

What the hell are you rambling on about?

Vovin
And by the way I don't know why you're trolling me with your demands as if I'm going to suddenly pull up some magic CNN video that confirms reports contrary to the western agenda. If you don't like the sources then don't read them, don't comment on them and go somewhere else if all you're going to do is whine about sources you don't like.

A typical response from a person who cant support the claims made.

By the way, you never provided a source. Hence the reason for my question.

Feel free to keep obfuscating though. Unlike some of the mindless Russian automatons, people outside of Russia want evidence to consider the claims made, me included.

Any time you post, I will respond and continue demanding you support the claims and provide sources. This is not one of those instances where what you say goes and people should not question it. If that's what you are looking for may I suggest you go to the Russian equivalent of this site (provided you can find any actually access one).

Wow.

First of all I did source it. Maybe if you open your eyes you might see it.

Second, you completely ignore any sources from Ukraine or Russia if they aren't reporting things that don't fit into your agenda. I've sourced RT before and you post "oh those are Russian sources" (implying that people should ignore them), and then just to back your opinions of Ukrainian law you were using an RT source as if it was gospel. There's no consistency except of hypocrisy.

Third, thanks for posting that you'll be going out of your way to harass me because I post things you don't agree with. I'm sure that's a T&C violation and I will let the message board staff know about it.