the complete flood myth thread

The great flood

What was the great flood from the Bible all about? What actually happened and what caused it? None of the ancient texts actually offers us any real or good explanation about the cause of the flood, but surprisingly many gives away quite a few details about thing that was happening shortly before, during and after the flood. I want to share this information with you. Hopefully some of you will find it interesting. I have therefore collected those details from a lot of different sources and pieced them together and presented them in the end of this post for you to read. However. Before we take a look at those details, let’s take a moment to explore the historical events and everything that was going on in the time shortly before the flood took place. In that way, thing and events that happened would hopefully make more sense.

Theories

Many people have speculated that the great flood could have been caused by a large meteor hitting the earth, or perhaps some large earthquakes. It has also been speculated that the great flood could have been triggered by a close passing by the unknown planet Niburu, like Sitchin claims. Others have speculated that the great flood was caused by sudden global warming who melted the worlds glaciers and poles. Other people claims that the great flood was just one of many locals flood. Other claims that the great flood never happened at all.

I myself believe that the great flood was global and that it occurred as a consequence of a change in the earth’s rotation and/or axial tilt, caused by our alien forefathers who was busy terra forming Earth in those days.

The warning period of 120 years

Even though we are still left to speculate what was actually causing this flood, it is a fact that the alien colonists and the general population knew about the upcoming catastrophe a long time before it actually took place. We know that for a fact because the alien colonist’s warned mankind of the upcoming catastrophe 120 years in advance. We can read about this warning in the book of Jasher as follows:

www.sacred-texts.com...

“And after the lapse of many years, in the four hundred and eightieth year of the life of Noah, when all those men, who followed the Lord had died away from amongst the sons of men, and only Methuselah was then left, God said unto Noah and Methuselah, saying, speak ye, and proclaim to the sons of men, saying, Thus saith the Lord, return from your evil ways and forsake your works, and the Lord will repent of the evil that he declared to do to you, so that it shall not come to pass. For thus saith the Lord, Behold I give you a period of one hundred and twenty years; if you will turn to me and forsake your evil ways, then will I also turn away from the evil which I told you, and it shall not exist, saith the Lord.”

Or from the book of the Legends of the Jews:

sacred-texts.com...

“Even after God had resolved upon the destruction of the sinners, He still permitted His mercy to prevail, in that He sent Noah unto them, who exhorted them for one hundred and twenty years to amend their ways, always holding the flood over them as a threat.”

“The period of one hundred and twenty years which God had appointed as the term of their probation having expired, Methuselah died, but out of regard for the memory of this pious man God gave them another week's respite, the week of mourning for him. “

Reading the warning from the above texts , one is thus led to believe that it was our alien forefathers that caused the flood, and that they somehow was capable of preventing it if they really wanted.

Earth’s tilt

Many people believes that the earth contained a great (some sort) of super continent before the great flood. That is probably true, but that was in a time that was even more remote and a long time before the great flood took place. In the time of the flood, the super continent was already broken up.

The Earth’s axial tilt is currently about 23,5 degrees. But it has not always been like that. Even though we don’t know all the technical details how it was possible for our alien forefathers to change Earth’s axial tilt or how they could make changes to Earth’s rotation , it seems that they had the knowledge and technology to do it somehow. They needed to do it in order to start the circle of weather and seasons.

Biblical texts tells us that there was no rain on earth before the great flood occurred , and that the earth was watered from the mist from the large volcanic activity and the multitude of hot springs that all was extremely active on earth in this period. It continues to tell us that Earth was ‘cursed’ in those days and it was impossible to grow food in it. Only thorns and thistles grew. Thus the Earth was an inhospitable and desert like place and famines was a common problem.

After the great flood, the earth was blessed with normal weather as we know it today, and the four seasons occurred every year as clock work. It was now possible to grow food in the Earth and rain fell regulary. The Bible also tells us that the rainbow occurred for the first time after the great flood and that the rainbow should from ever after be a sign an a remembrance of the historic cataclysm that took place in those days.

According to the Sumerian text “Erra and Ishmun” the flood swept over the earth when the position of the heavenly bodies was changed and the regulation of heaven and earth was disintegrated as we can read:

www.piney.com...

“Once, long ago indeed I grew angry, indeed I left my dwelling and caused the deluge!"When I left my dwelling, the regulation of heaven and earth disintegrated:"The shaking of heaven meant: the positions of the heavenly bodies changed”

From the Legends of the Jews we can read that the laws of nature was suspended the week before the flood took place as follows:

sacred-texts.com...

“ The period of one hundred and twenty years which God had appointed as the term of their probation having expired, Methuselah died, but out of regard for the memory of this pious man God gave them another week's respite, the week of mourning for him. During this time of grace, the laws of nature were suspended, the sun rose in the west and set in the east.”

Erra (Ickur) was the alien that at this time was the expert on weather and metrology (“God of the above water”). He was also one of the ministers in the first alien kingship on Earth, led by Nudimmud (Enki). We can read about this kingship and it’s ministers in the text ‘Enki and the new world order’.

etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk...

“He called to the rain of the heavens. He ...... as floating clouds. He made ...... rising at the horizon. He turned the mounds into fields ....... Enki placed in charge of all this him who rides on the great storms, who attacks with lightning bolts, the holy bar which blocks the entrance to the interior of heaven, the son of An, the canal inspector of heaven and earth -- Ickur, the bringer of plenty, the son of An.”

Part one

Destruction of the giants and the monsters

Because of the intermarry and the mixing between aliens and human being races, and the wide scale experimenting that the watchers performed on animals and human beings in the last hundreds of years before the great flood, all originally animal species and human beings slowly corrupted its way genetically. At the time before the flood, ancient texts learns us that the majority of animals and man at that time was either giants, monsters or some kind of freaks. The original animals and mankind that was created and set out in the Earth after the original alien plans was about to be exterminated and extinct. In addition to this, there was serious problem with deceases, and as a result of this, most animals were therefore unfit for food . These animals were later called unclean.

In addition to this, we can read that the watchers (ignoring the prime directives) taught men how to make sword and weapons and how to wage war, as well as other forbidden knowledge. This eventually led to continuous conflicts, murders and wars. Thus anarchy was ruling. The situation was indeed critical.

The aliens did not cause the great flood to occur just to kill as many of the unclean animals , most of the giants , as well as the various monsters (mixture of man and animals) as possible. Nor was it brought along as punishment, even though several ancient texts suggests this. The great flood was as I already have mentioned planed a long time ahead and was necessary in order to start normal weather on Earth. However. It could be possible that the aliens used the flood as a threat to keep the human beings from evil.

According to ‘The legends of the jews’ as many as 400000 thousand giants died in the great flood. Lots of them nevertheless survived.

The biblical world

All Biblical texts only tells the history of the Middle east, The Northern of Africa and a larger part of Europe. The rest of the world is not mentioned and thus the history of these continents are not covered by these texts. The Sumerian texts only tells the history of ancient Sumer and it’s neighboring countries. How the great flood affected the other continents and nations are not mentioned, but it seems like small simple flood stories are written all over the world.

We must assume that the great flood was as enormous, cataclysmic and global (exactly as the multitude of ancient texts describes it), otherwise Noah would not have to build this enormous ark. If it was local, the aliens colonists could just have moved them to a remote area. But was Noah really building this ark?


The myth about Noah’s ark

It seems puzzling to me that Noah went to such a hardship to built such a huge boat , merely to save 8 souls and a large selection of clean animals. It seems perhaps even more strange to me e that the aliens made him do it.
After all. All they had to do was to bring them to safety in one of their many (air born) vehicles or spaceships while the flood was going on.

However. We can read in Sumerian texts (as well as Gnostic texts) that the alien leader Nunamnir (Enlil) which is the same as the biblical El , wanted the third generation human beings (The Sethites and the Cainites) completely destroyed in the flood . Another one of the great alien leader, Nudimmud (Enki) who was the head scientist and creator of these human beings , had however compassion with some of them and even refers to them as his sons. He therefore warned them off. Thus the ark (with his help) was built. They were not allowed to be evacuated by the aliens in their vehicles or spaceships as the other human beings (from the new race) was.

But wait. Was Noah and his sons and wives not the only ones who was saved by the aliens from the flood? No they were not. They were just the only Sethites (from the former race) that was helped by the aliens to survive the flood by building an ark. In addition to these, a couple of thousands of human beings belonging to a new race was saved.

The new race

It was (as mentioned) not only Noah and his sons and their wives that was saved (evacuated from the great flood) by the aliens.
Shortly before the great flood occurred, the alien colonists had been busy preparing a new human race and a new generation of clean animals. They thus used the flood caused by the new tilt of the Earth to cleanse the earth and restart civilization to get back to normal again. This human race eventually became the fourth and final human race that these aliens created before most of them later left Earth. The new race differed little from the former (The Sethites and the Canites), but the lifespan and their physical size was reduced significantly. It is this race that is still around.

The total number of people from the new race that the aliens saved and ordered to re-populate the Earth counted 1490 men (excluding woman and children). That was the number of them some 350 years after the great flood when the division of earth took place. They were the descendants of Shem (300 men), the descendants of Japheth (460 men) and the descendants of Ham (730 men). They were all a mixture of 70 (or perhaps 72) different tribes, which after the division of Earth was forcibly moved by the aliens to populate the different nations according to the biblical world (see above).

Some additional tribes were however created after the great flood. The Jews was for instance such a tribe. They were created 400 years after the great flood and 50 years after the division of Earth.

A great number of the human beings from the former race (in addition to Noahs family) also survived the flood. So did several giants from different giant tribes do as well. It was therefore not a complete destruction of the former race as ancient biblical texts suggests.

To read more details about this. Please read my thread ‘The Tower of Babel and the confusion of tongue’ to learn more.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Part two

while we are on the subject of Myth

The flood story recurs in later Mesopotamian writings including “Epic of Gilgamesh.” These versions lack the technical instructions — cut out, Finkel believes, because they got in the way of the storytelling.
Finkel is aware his discovery may cause consternation among believers in the biblical story. When 19th-century British Museum scholars first learned from cuneiform tablets that the Babylonians had a flood myth, they were disturbed by its striking similarities to the story of Noah.
“Already in 1872 people were writing about it in a worried way — what does it mean that holy writ appears on this piece of Weetabix?” he joked, referring to a cereal similar in shape to the tablet.
Finkel has no doubts.
“I'm sure the story of the flood and a boat to rescue life is a Babylonian invention,” he said.
He believes the tale was likely passed on to the Jews during their exile in Babylon in the 6th century B.C.
And he doesn't think the tablet provides evidence the ark described in the Bible existed. He said it's more likely that a devastating real flood made its way into folk memory, and has remained there ever since.
“I don't think the ark existed — but a lot of people do,” he said. “It doesn't really matter. The Biblical version is a thing of itself and it has a vitality forever.

triblive.com...

"once you eliminate the impossible what is left however improbable is the truth" - Arthur Conan Doyle

please read the thread in my siggy

credit for pic at link

When did the great flood took place?

The great flood took according to Sumerian texts place in the time of Gilgamesh. This is also verified by the text called ‘The book of giants’ who states he was a contemporary with Shemjaza and lived in the time of the punishment of the watchers. According to the Sumerian king list(s) Aga was the last king of Kish before the great flood. Aga ruled 625 years and was replaced by Gilgamesh. We can read this in the Sumerian text called ‘Gilgamesh and Aga’.

etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk...

Thus Gilgamesh was the first king after the great flood, and he established his kingship in Eanna. Aga was thus replaced by Gilgamesh 10908 BC. That is about 13000 years ago. This is also when the great flood happened. Also note that this is also the time when the age of leo started. Thus there is perhaps a relation between the Sphinx and the great flood?

This timeline (about 13000 years) are also backed up by Plato’s Atlantis myth. Because Atlantis was destroyed in the great war between the second and the third generation aliens (The Titanomachy) that occurred just some decades before the division of Earth, like Berossus claims.

Several ancient historians like Herodot and Deodorus Siculus also backs this timeline. (Herodot slightly off) Herodot writes that it has gone 17500 since the rule of Osiris (first generation Demigods) until today. According to the book of Jasher, Osiris was a contemporary of Abraham, thus Herodot is also saying that it has gone about 17000 years since the flood took place. Diodorus Siculus writes that the number of years from the rule of Osiris and Isis until the reign of Alexander, was a little over 10000 years. That makes a total of 12500 years until today, which furthermore means about 12000 years from the flood until today. Thus we already have four sources who backs up the 13000 years. Herodot adds another 4000 years and Siculus takes away a thousand years. Both Herodot and Siculus got their information from the Egyptian priests. That was also the source of Plato’s Atlantis myth which initially was given to Solon and passed on to Plato.

The timeline of 13000 years also eliminates the possibilities that the ancient Sumerian city of Kis or Kish was named after the Canaanite called Cush or that he founded the city that some people suggest, because Cush was born after the great flood, and Kis (Kish) was destroyed in the flood.

According to mainstream Christian and jewish scholars the great flood took place only some 4000 years ago. They are according to my timeline thus 9000 years out of sync. No wonder the history as told in the biblical (and Sumerian) texts can’t be connected or linked to the mainstream (known) history.

A summary of all that is written about the great flood

Having written all this. It is now time to present everything that I have found written about the great flood in biblical and Sumerian texts that is worth mentioning. It is a collection of short descriptions and events related to the flood taken from various ancient texts . I have subdivided them into three categories (Before, during and after the flood). It seems to me that they all have some major climatically changes that took place in those days in common. My suggestion is which (I have mentioned above) that is was in those days that Earth got it’s current tilt, but I leave the reader to make their own conclusions.

Before the flood:

From The Legends of the Jews :

sacred-texts.com...

“Even after God had resolved upon the destruction of the sinners, He still permitted His mercy to prevail, in that He sent Noah unto them, who exhorted them for one hundred and twenty years to amend their ways, always holding the flood over them as a threat. As for them, they but derided him. When they saw him occupying himself with the building of the ark, they asked, "Wherefore this ark?" Noah: "God will bring a flood upon you."The sinners: "What sort of flood? If He sends a fire flood, against that we know how to protect ourselves. If it is a flood of waters, then, if the waters bubble up from the earth, we will cover them with iron rods, and if they descend from above, we know a remedy against that, too."Noah: "The waters will ooze out from under your feet, and you will not be able to ward them off."

According to this texts , the flood was not caused by rain alone. The water was also likewise oozing out from the ground.

From The Legends of the Jews :

sacred-texts.com...

“Before the birth of Noah, the sea was in the habit of transgressing its bounds twice daily, morning and evening, and flooding the land up to the graves. After his birth it kept within its confines.”

Reading this text, one could be led to believe that there was some sort of change in the gravity from the moon. It is however not unusual that high tide occurs twice a day certain places. But if the earth’s axes suddenly tilted , a change in the tide like this could perhaps occur.

From The Legends of the Jews :

sacred-texts.com...

“The famine that afflicted the world in the time of Lamech, the second of the ten great famines appointed to come upon it, ceased its ravages with the birth of Noah.”

Could this text indicate that there was a change in the weather in these days. Perhaps this was the time rain eventually began to fall on earth? Thus making it easier to till the Earth and produce food.

From The Legends of the Jews :

sacred-texts.com...

“Noah had scarcely come into the world when a marked change was noticeable. Since the curse brought upon the earth by the sin of Adam, it happened that wheat being sown, yet oats would sprout and grow. This ceased with the appearance of Noah: the earth bore the products planted in it.”

It was at the time of Noah that the alien colonists taught mankind the knowledge of plowing and cultivating the earth properly. It seems that this , including the introduction of rain is perhaps the reason for the better crops, as also the prior text about the famine in the time of lamech indicates.

From The book of Enoch :

www.sacred-texts.com...

“And in those days Noah saw the earth that it had sunk down and its destruction was nigh. And he arose from thence and went to the ends of the earth, and cried aloud to his grandfather Enoch: and Noah said three times with an embittered voice: Hear me, hear me, hear me.' And I said unto him: ' Tell me what it is that is falling out on the earth that the earth is in such evil plight and shaken, lest perchance I shall perish with it ? '. And thereupon there was a great commotion , on the earth, and a voice was heard from heaven, and I fell on my face. And Enoch my grandfather came and stood by me, and said unto me: ' Why hast thou cried unto me with a bitter cry and weeping? And a command has gone forth from the presence of the Lord concerning those who dwell on the earth that their ruin is accomplished because they have learnt all the secrets of the angels, and all the violence of the Satans, and all their powers -the most secret ones- and all the power of those who practice sorcery, and the power of witchcraft, and the power of those who make molten images for the whole earth: And how silver is produced from the dust of the earth, and how soft metal originates in the earth.. For lead and tin are not produced from the ear

edit on 5-4-2014 by helius because: (no reason given)

During the flood:

From The Legends of the Jews :

When God gave the signal, and it began to rain, the water poured down forty entire days, till it became fifteen cubits higher (7 – 8 meters) than most of the highest mountains on the earth.

From The Legends of the Jews :

sacred-texts.com...

“The crowd of sinners tried to take the entrance to the ark by storm, but the wild beasts keeping watch around the ark set upon them, and many were slain, while the rest escaped, only to meet death in the waters of the flood. The water alone could not have made an end of them, for they were giants in stature and strength. When Noah threatened them with the scourge of God, they would make reply: "If the waters of the flood come from above, they will never reach up to our necks; and if they come from below, the soles of our feet are large enough to dam up the springs." But God bade each drop pass through Gehenna before it fell to earth, and the hot rain scalded the skin of the sinners. The punishment that overtook them was befitting their crime. As their sensual desires had made them hot, and inflamed them to immoral excesses, so they were chastised by means of heated water.”

From this text we learn that the rain that was falling or that oozed out of the ground was heated. That would probably be caused by lots of volcanic activity and hot springs that probably was more intence and active than in our days?

From The Legends of the Jews :

sacred-texts.com...

“The flood was produced by a union of the male waters, which are above the firmament, and the female waters issuing from the earth. The upper waters rushed through the space left when God removed two stars out of the constellation Pleiades. Afterward, to put a stop to the flood, God had to transfer two stars from the constellation of the Bear to the constellation of the Pleiades. That is why the Bear runs after the Pleiades. She wants her two children back, but they will be restored to her only in the future world.

There were other changes among the celestial spheres during the year of the flood. All the time it lasted, the sun and the moon shed no light, whence Noah was called by his name, "the resting one," for in his life the sun and the moon rested. The ark was illuminated by a precious stone, the light of which was more brilliant by night than by day, so enabling Noah to distinguish between day and night.”

The first part of text is a rather nice piece I think. It seems to indicate that somebody was suggesting that some sort of cosmic cataclysm was occurred at that time. The second part of the text states that the sunshine was blocked during the entire flood period. Also notice that Noah was given some sort of lamp which he brought with him in the ark to distinguish between day and night. In another text we can also learn that Noah was given a ‘device’ that served as a time piece, given Noah the possibility to tell what time of the day it was.

From The book of Jasher :

www.sacred-texts.com...

“the Lord caused the whole earth to shake, and the sun darkened, and the foundations of the world raged, and the whole earth was moved violently, and the lightning flashed, and the thunder roared, and all the fountains in the earth were broken up, such as was not known to the inhabitants before.”

According to this statement the whole earth was moving violently. It must have been a pretty devastating catastrophe.
From The Legends of the Jews :

sacred-texts.com...

“ The duration of the flood was a whole year. It began on the seventeenth day of Heshwan, and the rain continued for forty days, until the twenty-seventh of Kislew. The punishment corresponded to the crime of the sinful generation. They had led immoral lives, and begotten bastard children, whose embryonic state lasts forty days. From the twenty seventh of Kislew until the first of Siwan, a period of one hundred and fifty days, the water stood at one and the same height, fifteen ells above the earth. During that time all the wicked were destroyed, each one receiving the punishment due to him”

From this text we learn that the flood lasted a whole year , but that it stopped raining after 40 days. After 150 days the flood was still not residing.

The first part of this passage is indeed interesting. It’s not related to the flood, but it gives us some valuable information , because it states that the giant’s (her referred to as the bastard children) embryonic state lasted for only 40 days. This means that those giant babies grew so rapid in the womb of their mothers that they were fully developed babes after only 40 days. In another ancient text we also learn that the giant babies was born (removed) surgically. They were probably fully developed and ready to be born after just some months. In my next thread I will write more about these giants.
From The Legends of the Jews :

sacred-texts.com...

“But those waters shall in those days serve for the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who dwell on the earth, for the healing of the body, but for the punishment of the spirit; now their spirit is full of lust, that they may be punished in their body, for they have denied the Lord of Spirits and see their punishment daily, and yet believe not in His name.. And in proportion as the burning of their bodies becomes severe, a corresponding change shall take place in their spirit for ever and ever; for before the Lord of Spirits none shall utter an idle word. For the judgement shall come upon them, because they believe in the lust of their body and deny the Spirit of the Lord. And those same waters will undergo a change in those days; for when those angels are punished in these waters, these water-springs shall change their temperature, and when the angels ascend, this water of the springs shall change and become cold. And I heard Michael answering and saying: ' This judgement wherewith the angels are judged is a testimony for the kings and the mighty who possess the earth.' Because these waters of judgement minister to the healing of the body of the kings and the lust of their body; therefore they will not see and will not believe that those waters will change and become a fire which burns for ever.”

According to this text hot water springs would undergo a change in these days and become cold. In the end of the text , Michael states that the same water springs will become a fire that burns forever. It seems to me that there was a lot of volcanic activity taking place in that time.

From the book of the cave of treasures:

www.sacred-texts.com...

“And when Noah and his sons had gone into the Ark, and his wife and the wives of his sons, on the seventeenth day of the month of Îyâr (May), at sunset, the door of the Ark was shut fast, and Noah and his sons in captivity in the darkness. And as soon as the door of the Ark was shut, the floodgates of the heavens were opened, and the foundations of the earth were rent asunder, and Ocean, that great sea which surroundeth the whole world, poured forth its floods. And whilst the floodgates of heaven were open, and the foundations of the earth were rent asunder, the storehouses of the winds burst their bolts, and storm and whirlwinds swept forth, and Ocean roared and hurled its floods upon the earth.”

This text seems to verify that the great oceans which surroundeth the whole world also flooded. It also describes that the foundation of the Earth was rent asunder and that storms and whirlwinds roared and hurled it’s floods. It seems like it must have been quite some catastrophic event.

After the flood:

From Genesis:

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...

“I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.”

It puzzles me a bit why the aliens could promise that another flood should never occur. What they probably meant was that a similar great (and global flood) like this would never occur again. The tilting of the Earth was a one time event, so thus they probably would know for sure that the tilt would be stable for ever thereafter.

From The Legends of the Jews :

sacred-texts.com...

“The importance of the Temple appeared at once, for the torrential rains which annually since the deluge had fallen for forty days beginning with the month of Marheshwan, for the first time failed to come, and thenceforward appeared no more.”

This means that this annual flooding started in year 1656 (After the great flood) and ended around 3050 . A total of about 1400 years. What could be the reason that this annual flooding or rain season stopped? Surely there was some major changes in the weather taking place in these times also?

End note

The great flood must have had an enormous impact on Earth and was probably a lot more devastating that one is led to believe from reading different ancient texts. Even the aliens was terrified as we can read from the Sumerian text called the Epic of Gilgamesh:

www.sacred-texts.com...

“Nor could a brother distinguish his brother; from heaven were mortals not to be spied. O, were stricken with terror the gods at the Deluge, fleeing, they rose to the Heaven of Anu, and crouch’d in the outskirts.Cow 'ring like curs were the gods (while) like to a woman in travail. Ishtar did cry, she shrieking aloud, (e’en) the sweet-spoken Lady (She of the gods): 'May that day turn to dust”

Part four

Scientific proof .... the 'world wide flood' of Noahs Ark fame didn't happen.

If the world wide flood happened .. then this 80,000 year old tree colony wouldn't have survived.
PANDO Tree Colony

Pando (Latin for "I spread"), also known as The Trembling Giant,[1][2] is a clonal colony of a single male quaking aspen (Populus tremuloides) determined to be a single living organism by identical genetic markers[3] and one massive underground root system. The plant is estimated to weigh collectively 6,000,000 kg (6,600 short tons),[4] making it the heaviest known organism.[5] The root system of Pando, at an estimated 80,000 years old, is among the oldest known living organisms.[6][7]
Pando is located 1 mile southwest of Fish Lake on Utah route 25.[8] in the Fremont River Ranger District of the Fishlake National Forest, at the western edge of the Colorado Plateau in South-central Utah, at N 38.525 W 111.75.

Science Daily
At this time there are 6.5 million land animal species on the planet. There were even more back in what was supposedly Noahs time. Two of each animal would mean at least 13 million animals on that boat. Couldn't happen.

Light doesnt penetrate the ocean more than about 500 ft. if the earth were submerged under 29,000 ft. in order to cover mt. everest, no marine plant life would have survived and the oceans would be dead. Obviously that didn't happen.

Could Noahs' Ark Have Actually Happened?

If the 2350 date were correct, then human civilization would’ve had to undergo an extreme population explosion in the millenium following the flood. According to Biblical sources, there would have been millions of Jews leaving Egypt, so assuming a global population of 40 million around that time (~1350 BC), and comparing that to global population estimates later in history (an estimated 200+ million by 0 AD), would require an incredibly high population growth between 2350 BC and 1350 BC (5,000,000 fold increase in 1,000 years), and a much lower population growth after 1350 BC – usually less than 5 fold population growth within any 1,000 year period between 1350 BC and 1800 AD.

(3) The distribution of animals is not what we would expect if there were a global flood killing all life. If all life was limited to the top of a mountain in the Middle East in 2350 B.C., then how to explain the distribution of animals across the world? All the kangaroos on the Ark went to Australia? How did the animals get to the Americas? If they crossed via an ice-bridge in the Bering Strait, then the Americas should be limited to animals that are warm blooded and capable of traveling hundreds of miles across snow. This means no reptiles, no spiders, etc. Yet, the Amazon contains a wide variety of animal biodiversity. And why didn’t American desert animals stay behind in the deserts of the Old World? (See related post: “Creationism versus Animal Biodiversity”)

(4) Genetic evidence shows that human beings are far to genetically diverse to be descended from a single family in 2350 B.C. If Noah’s Ark were true, then all men alive today would’ve gotten their Y-chromosomes from Noah, and all human mitochondrial DNA would come from Noah’s wife and the three daughter-in-laws. Studies of the human Y-Chromosome show that you’d need far more than 4,300 years to accumulate that many mutations. Human beings could not be descended from a single male in 2350 B.C. What the studies show, instead, is that, in order to explain the number of mutations in the human Y-Chromosome, you have to allow for roughly 60,000-90,000 years. Similarly, human mitochondrial DNA requires roughly 160,000 years to accumulate that many mutations — showing that Eve could not have lived 6,000 years ago as the Bible says.

AND MORE INFORMATION AT THAT SITE.

Adam and his Eves - DNA and population distribution

Creationism vs Biodiversity

Additionally, once the animals left the Ark, there are a lot of nearby regions they could inhabit, but didn’t. For example, all varieties of rattlesnakes are found in the Americas (33 species, and numerous subspecies). There are none in the Old World – despite the fact that there are regions similar to the American deserts – the Sahara, the Middle East, the Gobi Desert, etc. Llamas fit this same pattern – found in the New World, but not in the Old World. The Caucus (where the Ark supposedly landed) and Himalaya mountains have different species than the Rocky Mountains and Andes. Why didn’t some of the Rocky Mountain species stick around in the Caucus Mountains – they were already there the minute they stepped off the Ark. Similarly, the species in the South American tropics aren’t found in Old World tropics (Southeast Asia and Africa), and vice-versa. For example, New World cats and monkeys are different species than Old World cats and monkeys. Theoretically, with the movement of creatures caused by the global flood, one could find the same species living in distant places. Somehow, we don’t.

National Geographic - Human DNA Journey
For Noahs Ark to have happened exactly as the bible claims, we'd expect the highest levels of genetic diversity to be in the Middle East. But the fact is that the highest levels of human genetic diversity occur in Africa where humanity evolved.

Noahs Ark Doesn't Float

Miles of coral reef, hundreds of feet thick, still survive intact at the Eniwetok atoll in the Pacific Ocean. The violent flood would have certainly destroyed these formations, yet the rate of deposit tells us that the reefs have survived for over 100,000 undisturbed years. Similarly, the floodwaters, not to mention the other factors leading to a boiling sea, would have obviously melted the polar ice caps. However, ice layers in Greenland and Antarctica date back at least 40,000 years.

Impact craters from pre-historical asteroid strikes still exist even though the tumultuous floodwaters would have completely eroded them. If these craters were formed concurrently with the flood, as it has been irresponsibly suggested, the magnificent heat from the massive impacts would have immediately boiled large quantities of the ocean, as if it wasn’t hot enough already. Like the asteroid craters, global mountain ranges would exhibit uniform erosion as a result of a global flood. Unsurprisingly, we witness just the opposite in neighboring pairs of greatly contrasting examples, such as the Rockies and Appalachians.

Even if we erroneously assume there to be enough water under the earth’s surface in order to satisfy the required flood levels, the size of the openings necessary to permit passage for a sufficient amount of water would be large enough to destroy the cohesive properties of the earth’s crust. However, the outer layer is firmly intact, and there’s no evidence indicating that it ever collapsed. All this hypothetical escaping water would have greatly eroded the sides of the deep ocean fissures as well, but no such observable evidence exists for this phenomenon either.

We can also observe algae deposits within the fossil layers, a phenomenon that could not have formed during the flood because they require sunlight to thrive. It’s quite reasonable to assume that the clouds would have thoroughly obstructed the sunlight during such a tremendous rain indicative of the flood. Setting aside this and all other known fossil inconsistencies with the Bible, archaeologists have found human footprints within the upper layers. Moving water simply could not have deposited these markings. As I alluded to earlier, this seemingly endless list of geological problems was completely unforeseeable to the primitive authors, thus the Bible offers no justifications or explanations for our discoveries.

MORE INFORMATiON AT THE SITE.

url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India] India and the Indus Valley Civilization [/url]

The Indus Valley Civilization, which spread and flourished in the northwestern part of the Indian subcontinent from c. 3300 to 1300 BCE in present-day Pakistan and northwest India, was the first major civilization in South Asia.[2] A sophisticated and technologically advanced urban culture developed in the Mature Harappan period, from 2600 to 1900 BCE.[3]
This civilization collapsed at the start of the second millennium BCE and was later followed by the Iron Age Vedic Civilization, which extended over much of the Indo-Gangetic plain and which witness the rise of major polities known as the Mahajanapadas. In one of these kingdoms, (Magadha), Mahavira and Buddha were born in the 6th or 5th century BCE and propagated their Shramanic philosophies.

The culture and peoples are uninterrupted all through the supposed Noahs Ark period (as dated by the bible).
In fact, it's uninterrupted for the past 75,000 years.

it isn't complete. What about the Indigenous People of Australia? -> The Dreaming

what about the Native American Indians?

?

awesome thread Helius
kudos to the effort you put out

credit for pic at link in siggy

glaciations ending...

there was a world wide flood...but it did obey the laws of physics..and history
check out the harbors dug into the edge of the secondary continental shelf...now flooded...
and the red haired white bodies excavated in florida from that time
again at link in sig

i'll throw in my own theory....1) final vestiges of the Gibraltar straits land bridge collapsed, sending massive tsunami wave and raising the Mediterranean sea up another 100 feet or so... too many sunken structural remnants in Egypt, Greece, Italy, that seem to indicate that in the distant past, the "med" was a lot smaller and shallower, than it is today.

reply to post by helius


Hi ..good read and enjoyable .I wanted to bring up a point with you . "The Lord then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of cleananimal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”

From this verse Noah is to bring in some unclean animals .In your post you say that he didn't take any ...I would suggest that just as secular historians can not agree with Christians about dates that the devil may be in the details that none bible believers seem to miss .Yes this is a small detail and is only a side note to your post ,but is still a error ....peace

reply to post by the2ofusr1


You are absolutely right. Thanks for clearing that up. If you are interested in more on my views on clean and unclean animals,please read my thread : The origin of clean and unclean animals here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=

reply to post by FlyersFan

Scientific proof .... the 'world wide flood' of Noahs Ark fame didn't happen.

Huh?? Who says the understandings of biblical scholars (heavy duty sarcasm) are anything to be relied upon?

A great flood did occur ... as did a shift in the axial tilt of the Earth.

The story of Noah's ark is a metaphor ... part of a larger allegorical tale designed for children to better understand the history of our planet ... and what is possible.

ETA: Great thread Helius S&Fd

reply to post by Thurisaz


yes. youre right, Thanks. I only cover whats said about the great flood in biblical and Sumerian texts. If others has anything interesting to add from other sources i would be interested in reading it.

Alien colonialists? Sounds like a big guess, the human civilization has risen higher than this and toppled many times, we're at the #en bottom of social evolution, we can't even use our mediocre technology in a good way!

reply to post by ScottProphhit


Thanks

Well i won’t deny that i am a strong believer in the aa-theory and I therefore present all my posts on this forum in this context. It a little dramatic to claim that everything in the post is based on guessing, but it’s a theory like every other theory that is around that are trying to give answers to our ancient history and existential issues. As they all are theories, nothing can really be proven as absolute truth. I won’t deny that, but to me the aa-theory happens to make most sense of all such theories. All my posts are based on the study of ancient texts, but they are all written from a aa-theory point of view and interpreted in the light of today’s knowledge and today’s technology.

I basically write these kind of post because it’s fun and just by writing this stuff down I am getting new ideas. Thus i learn to see things from different angles as well as it helps me to see the bigger picture. I also like to see the reactions to these posts and hopes that somebody has something to add that eventually would give me a new piece in the huge jigsaw puzzle that our remote history really is.

My view on our remote history is changing constantly and gets revises as soon as I learn more. Thus I will sometimes write things that I have interpreted different in other related posts. My posts are without doubt most interesting for people who share my interest in the aa-theory, but it would please me if I could get an ‘outsider’ interested as well, even though that is not my main goal. If you have read it , it’s good enough for me.

reply to post by helius


Nah I dont doubt life from other planets have gotten involved here but I do think it's ridiculous to think of one as colonial, a race couldn't evolve to the point of travelling to another planet if it wasnt pure love and unified

reply to post by helius


Nice thread helius. I enjoyed how you made reference to all those ancient texts to support your theory. The Legends of the Jews is one of my favorite sources to fill in the gaps of the flood story. I have many theories of my own on this subject, some of which are in agreement with yours. Here is one point that we differ:

1. God said he would destroy the earth with the wicked in the Deluge.

The ground prior to the Deluge may have been inhospitable to farming but it was perfectly fine for all the wild animals outside. Within the Garden of Eden farming worked perfectly without our current weather patterns we see today. Actually, the atmosphere was perfect inside and out of Eden to support extremely long life. To me, the atmosphere was perfectly good when he finished the creative days. For God said it was good.

I believe there is improper interpretation of what is said at Genesis 6:3. God’s spirit mentioned here, I believe, is not Holy Spirit but it is the spirit that was pushed into Adam’s nose when he was brought to life. The life spans of humans began to fall dramatically after the flood. I believe the intended purpose of the Deluge was to reduce the human life span. Can you imagine a Hitler type ruler living almost 1000 years?

I am certain the solar system experienced a great cataclysm and the planet tilted during the Deluge at great cost. The flood was not meant just to kill off a few million wicked people. It was meant to change the physics of the earth for future generations.

reply to post by helius


I believe God designed the universe like a clock. He knew at some point the Earth would have to be Flooded, so He set up some kind of "planet-x" interaction, or possibly a comet interaction.

I agree, that the antediluvian world had no tilt. The Giza pyramid expresses that. But, I also think that most ancient calendars express a shift from 360 days per year to 365.25 days per year. This is indicative of an elongation of Earth's orbital path. This elongation points to an outside gravitational source. It is probable that our planet's tilt also points toward the direction of the of the object that tilted us.

I feel that the luni-solar torque theory of the precesseion of the equinox is inadequate. It is more likely that our planet's axis is too stable for any significant precession, and that the "precession of the equinox" is actually caused by a 4,475 year binary orbit within the zodiacal ring. The fact that our orbital path hoola-hoops around the sun over thousands of years creates the illusion that the binary orbital period is around 24,000 to 26,000 years, when in fact, its probably closer to 4,475 years.

This would negate the need for a "terraforming alien race".

reply to post by FlyersFan


Some of my own research I did last year -

Scientific facts for a Global Flood
Genesis 7-8 talks of a global flood, dated Biblically to occurred around 2500BCE. Is there any evidence for this event? 95% of all fossils are marine invertebrates occurring throughout ever layer and all over the continental landmasses. [John Morris, The Young Earth (Colorado Springs: Master Books, 1994). p.70. Data by Paleontologist Kurt Wise.]

Marine fossils are found on the highest mountain ranges in the world like the Himalayas, so how did they get there? The father of modern geology, Nicolas Steno, understood the strata layers formed by a marine deluge that covered the whole Earth with scripture and nature in agreement. [Nicolas Steno: Biography and Original Papers of a 17th Century Scientist, (Heidelberg: Springer, 2013). pp.654-6.]

The Cretaceous layer extinction event that wiped out the dinosaurs is even recognised by competing explanations, like meteorite impact, to produce marine sediments where water that spanned the whole Earth was needed to create the observed tell-tale calcium carbonate chalk layer from ocean algal blooms. All the layers below this extinction-level events are likewise water deposited and laced with marine fossils, thus a global Flood is established.[P. I. Premovic, "Distal "Impact" Layers and Global Acidification of Ocean Water at the Cretaceous-Paleogene Boundary (Kpb)," Geochemistry International 49, no. 1 (January 2011). p.60-2; L. Pomar and P. Hallock, "Carbonate Factories: A Conundrum in Sedimentary Geology," Earth-Science Reviews 87, no. 3–4 (March 2008). pp.134-49, 154-9, 162.]
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1.

If the world wide flood happened .. then this 80,000 year old tree colony wouldn't have survived.

Unbiased measures of Earth lifetime through nitrogen recordings -

Nitrogen is absorbed by clays and various rocks so if life evolved over millions or billions of years on Earth, then this essential building block of life, making up about 78% of the atmosphere should be found full up in those absorbing sediments, these filled sediments have never found.

"If there ever was a primitive soup, then we would expect to find at least somewhere on this planet either massive sediments containing enormous amounts of the various nitrogenous organic compounds...In fact no such materials have been found anywhere on earth. Indeed to the contrary, the very oldest sediments...are extremely short of nitrogen"
(J. Brooks, and Shaw, G., Origin and Development of Living Systems (New York: Academic Press, 1973). p.359).

The source of radioactive carbon14 is cosmic waves from the sun striking atmospheric nitrogen. Libby, the creator of the C14 dating method in 1952 said it would take twenty to thirty thousand years for the C14 production rate to reach equilibrium considering its half-life breakdown rate. [Willard F. Libby, Radiocarbon Dating (Chicago: University of Chiicago Press, 1952). pp.4-9.]

He [Libby] ignored his measurements indicating that equilibrium had not been reached yet assuming Earth's atmosphere is billions of years old already. Stansfield, in 1977 calculated the production rate exceeding the decay rate still by 30%.

the C14 decay rate in living organisms is about 30 per cent less that its production rate in the upper atmosphere
(William D. Stansfield, Science of Evolution (New York: Macmillian Publishing Co, 1977). p.83).

FlyerFan, the unbiased reliable measures of nitrogen from the clay sediments not only confirm the Earth is less than billions or millions of years old but including the measures of radioactive Carbon14 from nitrogen in the Earth's atmosphere confirms that all life on Earth has occurred in less than 20,000 years of history as the C14 production rate (cosmic rays from sun converting atmospheric nitrogen to C14) still exceeds the destruction rate (based half-life of C14). As equilibrium has not been reached therefore the speculation on the age of the 80,000 year old trees is inaccurate (as there would have been no atmosphere around to grow the trees).

Large number of animal species problem
While I am by know means an expert on this area. The Genesis 6:19 description is translated as animals or every 'sort' or 'kind'
Info on species versus kinds which supports observed reality to make the quantity issue explainable

Dogs species like others (horses, chickens ect...all variations to the level of species) come from genetic descent from a genetically more complex common ancestor (thus could come from a single kind or pair on the ark) - Some info on the dingo

However, genetics seems to have resolved the debate, with a convincing demonstration that dingoes are descended from only a few domestic dogs introduced to Australia from South-east Asia, ‘as few as a single pregnant female’, and only turning feral later.

Dayton, L., On the trail of the first dingo, Science 302(5645):555–556, 2003; Savolainen, P. et al., A detailed picture of the origin of the Australian dingo, obtained from the study of mitochondrial DNA, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 101(33):12387–12390, 2004; Previously, it had been shown that domestic dogs in Eurasia, America and Africa had a common origin. This latest finding shows that applies to domesticated dogs on all continents.
creation.com

What we know about the dingo today is just what we would expect if the Bible is true. We see

1. That ‘a single pregnant female’ could have populated an entire continent—a nice demonstration that from a limited number of animals, a healthy population can be sustained, as per Genesis 8:17. So, next time you hear someone claim that the world’s land animals and birds couldn’t possibly have come from male/female pairs taken aboard the Ark, tell them about the Australian dingo!
2. That the ready interbreeding of dingoes with other dogs (which continues apace today),20 along with the uncertainty in assigning species names, points to the creation by God of a single original dog ‘kind’ (Genesis 1:24–25). Rapid ‘speciation’ is not evolution, but just what we would expect from the biblical account.21
3. That a ‘wild’ animal can be tamed by man (see James 3:7), reflecting the original created order—man to ‘rule over’ the animals (Genesis 1:28).22
4. That the movement of dingoes and humans to this continent fits with the expected pattern of post-Flood dispersion from the Ark during the last 4,500 years. Interestingly, lice that live on kangaroos have also been found on Indonesian dogs. Some researchers suggest, therefore, that the Australian dingo must have been taken back to Indonesia (carrying the kangaroo lice north from Australia).12 But this evidence could also be interpreted to mean that kangaroos once lived in Indonesia (en route to Australia), later becoming locally extinct as the large carnivores (e.g. Asian tigers) arrived there after the end of the Ice Age, when the land bridge to Australia was severed.
creation.com

As, I said I am not expert here but what scientists know about how all the dog breds came out as well as things like chickens and horses suggest this is true of helping to explain the large species problem now, simply there is a pathway (through genetic descent from a genetically superior ancestor...that has been observed by what we know about how the different dog breds arose)
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We do knot know what the level of water in the flood would have needed to get to to cover everything as it is understood that continental uplift also occurred from the flood as well. We don't know how high Everest was before the flood.

All we can tell is that the last extinction level event on Earth was caused by flood and considering the chalk layer is the only universal layer in the geological column it must have been a universal flood. The age of the Earth is young based on the nitrogen so everything else must fit inside those parameters.

reply to post by FlyersFan

At this time there are 6.5 million land animal species on the planet. There were even more back in what was supposedly Noahs time. Two of each animal would mean at least 13 million animals on that boat. Couldn't happen.

Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Something is not right here. Is this a cubit of a man or a giant? The reason I ask is that Mark Twain wrote in his book “Innocents Abroad” that he visited Noah’s Tomb and that his tomb was well over 200 feet long. Then in Enoch one it is stated that the giants in Noah’s day were over 400 feet tall. Now the KJV bible states that the flood’s height was fifteen cubits high and that this covered the mountains. Does that mean fifteen cubits of a 400 ft. giant or a 200ft. man? A cubit is only a form of measurement so can’t do the math. Not bright enough. Just supposing that the mountains we see today are not the mountains that were in Noah’s day and that the bible is really telling us that this flood was not as we imagine and that the ark is much larger than what we imagine?

Then we can take a good look at this modern science that we tote so much. This science claims that this universe is expanding at an enormous rate today. If it is then it has to expand into something does it not? And if it is expanding then what is filling the vast void that it creates in its expansion? Something must be creating to fill that void and in my theology that would the Creator. Most everyone has not talked about God creating after He rested on that seventh day. I believe that He is creating even today as we speak and has been creating since He took a breather.

Why would that be important? Well, what if there were only a handful of creatures that were created at that time? What if God started creating again after the flood? What if He only wanted to save what was on the earth at the time of the flood in order to save His original work? In other words what we have today is far more than Noah had in his day. What if all of this evolution theology is nothing but eras of creating that have and will go on? Just maybe we should be looking at an ark that is beyond our imagination. Don't come on with that old prove it stuff because this is theology and not prove it any more than you could prove your math on thirteen million creatures on a boat.