Abortion is a gift from God

beezzer

jrflipjr
Beezzer,

I'll tread lightly as I'm in no mood to get into the abortion topic either! [too much scothc...don't judge me]

I believe I understand the intent of the message - albeit sensationalist and shock 'n' awe worthy.

I believe the intent is that humans have the right to choose - not just abortion, but in everyday matters. The defense is likely, "God gave us the ability to choose and a brain to serve us in this endeavor."

I don't have the answers (I believe this is the point of the exercise). However, I also don't believe any human has the answer that applies to all mankind. This is the nature to "the mystery of Christ"....or Allah....or Buddha...etc.

Forgive me if I've offended - just trying to explore the topic with you.

Respectfully,

God grants us all free will.

Abortion would be a result of a decision brought about by free will.

But free will includes murder.

So is murder a gift from God?

God may grant free will.

But a fetus is not recognized at all as a living being.

Hell it is not even recognized by law until it reaches the age of 18.

The mark of a true civilized society is how it treats the defenseless.

Modern society especially in this country epically fails on that.

We have literally tens of thousands of laws protecting human life out of the womb.

But none inside it.

People don't need religion to see the flaw in the pro choice argument.

Say you're a young man, you meet a girl, fall in love, get married. All is well. You love this woman and she loves you. Then one day she reveals a secret that she didn't share with you - that when she was 18, she "loved" a boy and thought it was true love, but he dumped her after sex and she ended up pregnant. With no resources, no education and parental pressure, she had an abortion. Do you stop loving her? Do you call her a murderer? Do you divorce her?

Say you are a parent and you find out your beautiful daughter has an abortion because she was scared and alone, and afraid of what YOU would say if you found out--so she went alone to that clinic and aborted the fetus. Would you stop loving your daughter? Call her a murderer? Disown her?

Many "Christians" will talk about how abortion is murder. But many of those same Christians will applaud when someone is executed in prison. (Hello Texas) Many will applaud when soldiers kill the "enemy." Throughout history, people kill other people - one religion/race against another. If abortion is murder - well, executions are murder, killing in war is murder.If an insurance company doesn't approve a cancer treatment and I die, they murdered me in essence.

I am not saying I think abortion is "good" - I am not saying I know when "life" begins or a "human" begins, because I don't. I would counsel my own daughter or friend to carefully consider how having an abortion can have lasting emotional consequences, and how precious life is. But in the end, I would not want to deny them the ability to choose to have an abortion. It's their body and their future. Even if their decision pains me.

I am not sure what is Truth. I tend to lean toward the thought that we are all souls who incarnate many times, and that perhaps we choose our parents, our situation before we incarnate. And that we all love one another unconditionally, knowing in this life, my sister will be cruel to me, and I will learn to forgive her; and in another life, I'll be her mother and she'll be the son -- and we'll have reasons to learn to forgive. And on and on. Until one day we incarnate and remember who we truly are, and stop hurting one another.

The soul of a baby is not a baby. The soul is ageless and timeless. Maybe the "baby" had an agreement before incarnation with its mother that this would be the "lesson" they would work on this go round. Maybe the "baby" is a wise soul who wanted to help its beloved soul-friend to have this experience. Once in the earth plane, we forget our soul family and soul vows and agreements and contracts.

Children who are born are dying of malnutrition, disease, ethnic cleansing, war. As we sit in front of our computers debating abortion - every minute, a child is dying from something preventable. We are all complicit in their deaths, as we have so much food, water, fuel, shelter, cars, boats, tablets, TVs, etc. etc. - and we are quite comfortable in our nice homes living our nice lives. We should all look in the mirror and know that we let children starve and die for lack of clean water or mosquito netting to stop malaria...until we can agree to take care of every child that is here....before they die....

beezzer
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

When the pro-killing unborn baby crowd has to use God as a proponent for their agenda, maybe they are losing support.

They are Bee, they really were never in the majority, and it is alll politics now, the culture of death vote.

Vile, wicked abomination.
Not much point trying to reach people with a seared conscience.

Celebrating and condoning and justifying the ripping of the unborn from a mothers womb sounds like the doctrine of demons to me.

kaylaluv
reply to post by vasaga

 

Blah, blah - women are evil parasites - blah, blah - don't you dare call me a misogynist - blah, blah - the rich have a responsibility to the poor - blah, blah - but we should just let nature take its course - blah, blah....

I'm not really getting you, but we are way off topic for this thread. I believe this thread is about how offended we are that someone used their free speech to artistically depict the concept of God to promote abortions - or something like that.

Everything I said is actually correlated to abortion, even if it doesn't seem that way. Where I live, abortion is more 'normal' than birth control. It shouldn't be that way. Maybe some people consider abortion a gift from God, but, when people prefer it over a pill or a condom or the long list of birth control options, something is wrong. Abortion has become the birth control while it shouldn't. Especially since abortion has some pretty serious side-effects and risks.

F Y I...

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

KJB

Seems some will fight this so it is not relevant to those whom come from monkey's, aliens or sea creatures. Best not leave out spontaneous combustion either.

reply to post by beezzer

But why mock religion? Really? Do we have to hate on those that believe in God?

Lets keep the posts civil and polite, please. There's been a lot of hate lately, try to be nice.

"You will be hated by everyone because of My name. But the one who endures to the end will be delivered.
Mathew 10:22

biblehub.com...



"You are blessed when people hate you, when they exclude you, insult you, and slander your name as evil because of the Son of Man."

Luke 6:22

biblehub.com...

We've reviewed the biological fact that 50% of all babies (i.e. fertilized eggs/early embryos) are naturally aborted.

We've reviewed the Biblical facts that God gave the priesthood a curse to kill the fetuses of unfaithful mothers, along with multiple other atrocities ordered committed on "the unborn" at God's command.

We've reviewed the philosophical fact that feticide is arbitrarily acceptable if the nature of the impregnation is socially unacceptable (rape, incest).

Etc. etc.

If people would take the time to read and understand the significance of the video I posted, they would see why certain countries and segment of society are once again turning pro life.

The culture of death is unsustainable, wonder why there are so many younger women anti abortion, maybe it is because the pro-abortion crowd didn't have children to raise and influence.

Liberal pro-abortionist are destroying their own culture.

once again,
A culture of death is unsustainable

Russia, the birth place of abortion

Vladimir Putin calls on Russian families to have three children

www.telegraph.co.uk... -

China to to relax the one-child policy

Birthrates plunged to 1.64 children per woman in 2011 from 4.77 in the 1970s, but the policy has led to countless troublesome consequences over the years, including forced sterilizations and abortions and a shortage of women in a country that overwhelmingly prefers boys over girls.

African Americans against abortion

“Right now to give some of us just a perspective of the impact of abortion on demand in the black community, according to the archives of the Tuskegee Institute, from 1882 to 1968 – 86 years – the Ku Klux Klan lynched 3,446 Negroes,” Hoye said. “While it took the Klan 86 years to accomplish this, abortion on demand in America accomplishes that is less than 4 days.”

Hoye's numbers are based on the Guttmacher Institute's fact sheet on induced abortion in the United States. That fact feet shows that in 2008, 1.2 million abortions were performed in the U.S. Of those, 432,000 of those abortions were performed on black women. Using those figures, in three days 3,550 black babies were aborted. In four days, the total would be 4,734 aborted black babies.
- See more at: cnsnews.com...

WHY DO YOU PUT YOUR ABORTION CLINICS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD?

New research released by Protecting Black Life (an outreach of Life Issues Institute) reveals that 79% of Planned Parenthood’s surgical abortion facilities are located within walking distance of African American and/or Hispanic/Latino communities.

Because that what she wanted

Sanger once said, “Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race” and even said, “We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”

Margaret Sanger

in 2012
www.cnsnews.com...

New York
More abortions than live births

The numbers show that in 2012, there were 31,328 induced terminations (abortions) among non-Hispanic black women in New York City. That same year, there were 24,758 live births for non-Hispanic black women in New York City. There were 6,570 more abortions than live births of black children.

IN Wisconsin
About 6.2 percent of the population is black, yet 24 percent of all state abortions are performed on African Americans, according to Pro-Life Wisconsin.
www.theroot.com...

Ryan Scott Bomberger
Ryan has a rather unique perspective of the innate nature of Purpose. His biological mother was raped yet courageously chose to continue the pregnancy, giving him Life.

He is the founder of the Radiance foundation.
www.theradiancefoundation.org...

Psalm 139:14 “…for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.”

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I've never met or seen anyone who is pro-abortion. I'm pro-CHOICE myself. The facts are, most pro-CHOICERS have never even had an abortion, and don't plan to, so this idea of us dying out is kinda silly. Most women who have had an abortion, either already have more children then they can handle, or go on to have children later when they are better prepared for it.

The reason why China is relaxing their 2-children-per-family policy is only because so many were killing their baby girls, as sons are considered more important. Stupid, because without the girls, the boys have no one to have their children with, hence the population going down a little too much. It has nothing to do with any new-found morals or anything. If they stopped killing the girls, two children per family would work out just fine, and they would have just left the policy in place.

Stormdancer777


Ryan Scott Bomberger
Ryan has a rather unique perspective of the innate nature of Purpose. His biological mother was raped yet courageously chose to continue the pregnancy, giving him Life.

See, that's the wonderful thing about being pro-CHOICE. You get to CHOOSE.

reply to post by beezzer


It seems to me, and has for some time now, that those who preach tolerance are the ones who are the most intolerant. Using religion in her art was just a means of pushing buttons, and padding her own wallet in the process.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Why have an abortion when every kid means another paycheck? That's what a lot of people are saying. People who grow up in lower-quality neighborhoods and need the money.

You have been deceived.

By your own government, imagine that.


www.crosswalk.com...

Sarah Weddington, co-counsel with her husband Ron Weddington, submitted the Rockefeller report as a part of her brief supporting Roe. Ron Weddington also advocated abortion as population control method. He wrote then President-elect Clinton in 1993 and advised the president-to-be that traditional Democratic programs would not be effective unless Clinton started “immediately to eliminate the barely educated, unhealthy, and poor segment of our country.” How could this be accomplished? He wrote to Clinton: "No I’m not advocating some kind of mass extinction of these unfortunate people. Crime, drugs and disease are already doing that. The problem is that their numbers are not only replaced but increased by the birth of millions of babies to people who cannot afford to have babies." Weddington noted that liberals don't often speak freely about such proposals in part because they seem ..."discriminatory, mean-spirited and well…so Republican." Nonetheless, what was Weddington's solution? "...vasectomies, tubal ligations and abortions…RU486 and conventional abortions."

And as you can see from the video of Russia and eastern Europe I posted population control backfires.

"Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of."
GINSBURG

JUSTICE GINSBURG: Yes, the ruling about that surprised me. [Harris v. McRae — in 1980 the court upheld the Hyde Amendment, which forbids the use of Medicaid for abortions.] Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of. So that Roe was going to be then set up for Medicaid funding for abortion. Which some people felt would risk coercing women into having abortions when they didn’t really want them. But when the court decided McRae, the case came out the other way. And then I realized that my perception of it had been altogether wrong.

Except she wasn’t “altogether wrong” — at least she wasn’t wrong about the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision being “set up for Medicaid funding” and population control.

TDawgRex
reply to post by beezzer

 

It seems to me, and has for some time now, that those who preach tolerance are the ones who are the most intolerant. Using religion in her art was just a means of pushing buttons, and padding her own wallet in the process.

What I don't understand, what I can't get my head around, is the idea of "choice".

Basically, the left has given the go-ahead socially and morally to end a life.

Now they even use God as an example as an acceptance to ending life.

God does it.
Nature does it.

So why shouldn't people do it.

beezzer

TDawgRex
reply to post by beezzer

 

It seems to me, and has for some time now, that those who preach tolerance are the ones who are the most intolerant. Using religion in her art was just a means of pushing buttons, and padding her own wallet in the process.

What I don't understand, what I can't get my head around, is the idea of "choice".

Basically, the left has given the go-ahead socially and morally to end a life.

Now they even use God as an example as an acceptance to ending life.

God does it.
Nature does it.

So why shouldn't people do it.

“You practice your religion and let me practice mine.” “My religion is a holy ritual child sacrifice.” - Patricia Baird-Windle, Founder and owner of Aware Woman abortuary

Stormdancer777

beezzer

TDawgRex
reply to post by beezzer

 

It seems to me, and has for some time now, that those who preach tolerance are the ones who are the most intolerant. Using religion in her art was just a means of pushing buttons, and padding her own wallet in the process.

What I don't understand, what I can't get my head around, is the idea of "choice".

Basically, the left has given the go-ahead socially and morally to end a life.

Now they even use God as an example as an acceptance to ending life.

God does it.
Nature does it.

So why shouldn't people do it.

“You practice your religion and let me practice mine.” “My religion is a holy ritual child sacrifice.” - Patricia Baird-Windle, Founder and owner of Aware Woman abortuary

So your argument is that abortion qualifies as a ritual human sacrifice?

beezzer
Basically, the left has given the go-ahead socially and morally to end a life.

Just thought I would mention that there are people on the left that are also anti-abortion.

Now they even use God as an example as an acceptance to ending life.

God does it.
Nature does it.

So why shouldn't people do it.

Actually I think the message is "god does it so, why are you trying to tell people that he is against it?"

daskakik

beezzer
Basically, the left has given the go-ahead socially and morally to end a life.

Just thought I would mention that there are people on the left that are also anti-abortion.

Now they even use God as an example as an acceptance to ending life.

God does it.
Nature does it.

So why shouldn't people do it.

Actually I think the message is "god does it so, why are you trying to tell people that he is against it?"

edit on 7-4-2014 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

Fine, some on the left are against it.

Good.

It could also be argued then, if God does do it and is for it, then God can give an adult a heart attack, thus ending a life in adulthood.

If God does that, then why shouldn't people be allowed to indiscriminately murder?

AfterInfinity

Stormdancer777

beezzer

TDawgRex
reply to post by beezzer

 

It seems to me, and has for some time now, that those who preach tolerance are the ones who are the most intolerant. Using religion in her art was just a means of pushing buttons, and padding her own wallet in the process.

What I don't understand, what I can't get my head around, is the idea of "choice".

Basically, the left has given the go-ahead socially and morally to end a life.

Now they even use God as an example as an acceptance to ending life.

God does it.
Nature does it.

So why shouldn't people do it.

“You practice your religion and let me practice mine.” “My religion is a holy ritual child sacrifice.” - Patricia Baird-Windle, Founder and owner of Aware Woman abortuary

So your argument is that abortion qualifies as a ritual human sacrifice?

I wouldn't say it is "ritual" human sacrifice, but abortion is most certainly a sacrifice in the majority of cases.

Most abortions are not because of rape or endangering the mother's life, but a result of not being prepared to support or provide for the child and to maintain a standard of living for the mother/family.

-FBB

It's about rights. All the pro-lifers out there don't have a problem if a woman aborts a fetus when carrying that fetus to term would mean certain death to the woman. Why is that? It's because the woman was here first, she is a person with a life - while the fetus may be alive, but has no life yet. The woman's rights take precedence over the fetus' rights. But once the fetus is born, it is not just merely alive, it now has a life (albeit a short one), so the woman's rights no longer take precedence - they now have equal rights.

Oh, and I believe it's the Right that traditionally is in favor of the death penalty - giving the right to socially and morally end a life. And the person getting the death penalty has a life!