260,000 graduates in minimum wage jobs

money.cnn.com...


Yet only lazy people work minimum wage and 'should get degrees to make a better life for themselves' hm?

I think this article speaks loudly.
and I'm sure at least one person will go on to reply on here saying 'They must have majored in ancient history/women's studies/literature/music/arts, so it's a useless degree.'
Maybe some have. I'm positive some have. Heck, I won't even be blind to say 'no, not at all.' But not every one has taken 'useless' degrees, anyone can believe that. My cousin graduated in the top of his class for accounting - and had to work retail min wage for a few years while actively pursuing work in his field. Finally he landed a great job, but it just goes to show.

A degree does not high salary make. Not every one who works min wage got crud grades in highschool or partied college away. Not every one who works min wage is lazy.

I'd also like to ponder, while I'm here, WHY folks like to do the old "Well, if those on welfare would just work any job and stop being picky about pay, they'd be off welfare'', then they get a min wage/low paying job and are called lazy/horrible people for wanting better money, then they go and get a degree and yet can't find work in their fields so they have to work min wage still. .....
Can anyone win for losing? Seriously? All I see is 'judge judge judge'. No matter what anyone does, they're still wrong to the seemingly majority.

Anyway, enjoy the article. It makes good food for thought at any rate.

How sad that is.

reply to post by sarra1833


The irony is deafening. I wonder what the next excuse will be for not paying a livable wage?

reply to post by Chronogoblin


Probably something incredibly 'obvious' like ''we just can't afford to do something like that." No doubt adding on in a paragraph later, "Because defence costs...."

I probably make no sense right now - though I do in my head. Suffering severe insomnia right now. Money stress doing it to me. Hey hey.

reply to post by sarra1833


My dad had a MBA (business admin) It suited him fabulously for decades as the employee, and then as the employer running his own businesses. When the economy collapsed and his steady stream of clientele evaporated, his businesses folded. He ended up pitching furniture on commission. Even he came to realize that a college education isn't a flawless guarantee for excellent employment anymore. He gave up and retired. Being older and having your gold mine degree turn into years of rejected resumes while hoping to nail that sale for the commission kind of sucks it out of you.

reply to post by sarra1833


I've come to the conclusion there are ownly 4 ways left to make good money in the contry for the young today.

1. nepotism
helping stop that pesky social mobitiy thing.

2. Crime
either self employed (running credit card scams or the like) as part of an organization (mafia etc) or in the most lurative of the three they'res always the option of government.

3. prostetution
I mean being willing to sell you name, dignity and image to corperations that will use it to shove inferior good on a youth to nieve to know when they are being shafted. Think the beibers, britney spears and david beckhams of this world.

4. self employment
This requires a lot of hard work and ingenuity to create a buisiness capable of sustaining yourself. unfortunatly you are always at risk of loosing it all either through tax hikes pricing you out or through new legislation brought in by crooked polititians.

reply to post by monkofmimir


Good points, and with number 4 if I may add a little:

Cost to start up a business is outrageous. Taking out loans to get it going and also hoping and praying you entice customers in, and hoping and praying you are still in business after that first 6mths to 1 year. Most businesses fail in that time, sadly.

I'd say usually because another Walmart moves in and destroys most small businesses, but yanno. The competition unfortunatly is either the 'big dogs' taking over with ridiculously low prices (and crappy goods for said cost, but people need to save much as they can given how things are today so it's almost a lesser of two evils) or everyone else has the same/similar small business idea and it turns into a Highlander game (there can be only one).

Sad stuff, isn't it just?

reply to post by sarra1833

College is very much like that old Milton Bradley game: The Game of Life. You make that short right turn, and you're usually gonna cross the finish line ahead financially. I can tell you that I take what's fed to us by the MSM with an entire shaker full of salt.

Here's what I consider the ground truth of college today. It's a waste of time and a huge financial gamble. That said, I put both of my kids in ... because you never know.

I don't consider my academic credentials to be worth the sheepskin they're printed on. My job experience is another story. This fits me, and is not intended to be a blueprint for anyone else. But, while I have a PhD and a bunch of folks holding Master's degrees under me, it's the guys who work hard that get the job done. Everyone sees the weight carried by everyone else and that's what counts.

There's not one person who hasn't carried the water. There's not one person who can't when asked. I started post-retirement washing dishes and everything has been an improvement since. It doesn't bother me at all to hear about these newly graduated men and women having to work their way up. I'm wondering if their detour in The Game of Life was a wise decision.

Time is becoming a pretty big factor in employment. The dynamic has shifted and folks don't have a pension to look forward to like they did in my day. It's all about IRAs and investment and cash savings. People change jobs more frequently than I change job locations. I hear the young folks saying that they feel blessed if they've found a new job before their old one forces them out.

Best of luck to anyone reading this reply!!

Nyiah
reply to post by sarra1833

 

My dad had a MBA (business admin) It suited him fabulously for decades as the employee, and then as the employer running his own businesses. When the economy collapsed and his steady stream of clientele evaporated, his businesses folded. He ended up pitching furniture on commission. Even he came to realize that a college education isn't a flawless guarantee for excellent employment anymore. He gave up and retired. Being older and having your gold mine degree turn into years of rejected resumes while hoping to nail that sale for the commission kind of sucks it out of you.

Breaks my heart for your father. I KNOW the pride he must have felt in the day, then to watch it all crumble.... man.... my empathy is strong for him. Once upon a time folk took pride in their schooling because it once upon a time meant something. Not everyone could get a degree. Not because they were affordable, but because most knew they could learn via apprenticeships - but even a person pumping gas made enough to take money home to his wife and children, buy a new car, have a home, have plenty of food, go on vacation once a year, on that money alone.

People got degrees back in the day for specialty fields.
Now anyone any where can get a degree for anything ever imagined.
Degrees are nearly like something you'd pull out of a Cracker Jack box. Seriously.

reply to post by Snarl


You know, when you said this, "It doesn't bother me at all to hear about these newly graduated men and women having to work their way up. I'm wondering if their detour in The Game of Life was a wise decision." it actually made sense to me. I try to see the good in every situation best I can.

And maybe for those who get out of college and have to work a min wage/low pay job for a while, it's happening because a great career job is coming up. Maybe if they got a high paying job right out of graduation, they'd never have gotten the chance to work that better job a few months/years down the road because they'd already be working elsewhere.

Things DO happen for reasons.
Thank you for reminding me of the very thing I do my utmost to remind others of. Insomnia makes my mind half work at times, haha.

I'm sure it's a bit depressing however to go from min wage thru college, finally get your degree, then have to stay in min wage for a while. But we do what we must, take things as they go. In time everything pays off one way or the other.

reply to post by sarra1833


Well, 260,000 minimum wage college grads isn't many when we are graduating 5,900,000 a year. It's about 4% of the college graduates of a single year -- if that 260,000 figure applies to a single year. I'm not sure, but the way it is worded, this number may be the number who ended up at or below minimum wage for one or more years out of college. You have to wonder how many were voluntary too (waiting to go back to school, taking a year off, etc before going for an advanced degree for example). No doubt some settled for earning less than was possible for various reasons. In some cases, if your goal is to get into retail in at least some states, you have to start as one of the crew if you are a new grad -- but you end up fast-tracked for promotions if you work out.

IMO, while CNN is reporting an apparent fact, it is doing so in a distorted manner. Such reporting is unconscionable may end up causing many to make poor (or less than optimal) personal decisions. The overall statistics are quite clear -- the more education, the better your chance of earning more in your lifetime. A guarantee, no. But the odds are definitely in the favor of college graduates vs high school graduates making substantially more over their lifetime.

sarra1833

Breaks my heart for your father. I KNOW the pride he must have felt in the day, then to watch it all crumble.... man.... my empathy is strong for him. Once upon a time folk took pride in their schooling because it once upon a time meant something.

Indeed, it was a hard blow for him. He didn't pin himself in the corner with a specific type of business, he was diverse. Rental management for properties and vehicles, ran a storage company, he was a fully licensed building contractor & remodeler and had a company he was very proud of, and because of the nature of that kind of clientele, when the economy poofed, the need for his businesses did, too. My dad's in his 70's, when he got his MBA, is was considered a crowning education achievement back then, and he worked damn hard for it. Now, an MBA is considered all but worthless, and the older folks with them are left high & dry.

People got degrees back in the day for specialty fields.
Now anyone any where can get a degree for anything ever imagined.
Degrees are nearly like something you'd pull out of a Cracker Jack box. Seriously.

It makes you step back and think about degrees as a whole today. Once upon a time they used to be life changers, something your could count on until the day you stepped back from your career from old age. Not so much anymore, people can change them as often as they do their underwear. And they're no guarantee for good wages.

reply to post by BayesLike


Very valid points indeed.

I know someone in the comments in that article was talking about Law Schools and how they promote the top grads making 160k a year and there is something like 2 grads for every single job available in Law and most make 20 to 40k a year. I think if people take a more realistic course of study while also trying to do something in a field that needs people, it'd work better, but even then it's hard to tell the future. Remember a few years back they were stressing how many nurses etc were needed so everyone and their brother took nursing? I know many grads now who either can't find good jobs in the field or are making just a few dollars above min wage. I'm not too versed in the pay rates for nursing and I know there are many aspects of it (LPN, RN, etc) but it just goes to show that what may be needed today will not/may not be needed 4 or 6 years down the road and in turn, those taking that field will have no means to work said field when their day comes. Not just nursing - I'm sure there are many many other working examples.

reply to post by Nyiah


Give your daddy a hug for me and tell him he did a darned great job with his life. Seriously. Look at all he did, and no doubt all of it was with 100% pride in his work and ethics as well. I know it's hard to swallow now for him, where he ended up, but you let him know that he lived a wonderful, well paying, excellent life and I truly hope he's enjoying his retirement and not letting the later issues diminish all he did from the moment he left high school and onwards. There's no reason to. He definitely lived the dream.

reply to post by sarra1833


it won't let me edit for some reason so here: it still is an achievement because he got it when it WAS. NOTHING and no one can take that fact away. Doesn't matter what it's looked at today. When he got it, that is still something to be VERY proud of. It's not his fault that things went down today for our new generation. Not at all.

Nyiah
My dad's in his 70's, when he got his MBA, is was considered a crowning education achievement back then, and he worked damn hard for it. Now, an MBA is considered all but worthless, and the older folks with them are left high & dry.

Sorry to hear about your Dad too -- but one thing to note is that an MBA back in the 1960's and 1970's was a quite different degree than an MBA is today. Few people keep up with the new skills over the decades. If they need to rely on that same degree 30 years later to open the door, the skills they learned are at best dated and at worst they can't even put those into practice as easily as before. I'm not say this happened to your Dad, but it is a state I see has happened to many of my co-workers.

Co-workers who are leaders in new applications that are hot for new products or ideas, despite the age of their degree, can easily find jobs which are as good or comparable to what they had. To be on that leading edge , they have to have kept their skills near to best of what is available. Co-workers who are coasting through their careers and haven't upgraded their skills have had a lot of difficulty finding new jobs.

As a little guidance for when to get concerned, if you work for some company and can't earn or save the company 10x your salary a year you are probably easily replaceable with someone who can. There are a LOT of really good people out there who can do that. Now, 10x may seem a lot, but there is often substantial overhead and possibly long-term investment in capital or resources to consider which eats into that considerably. The point is, at 10x your salary worth to the company is obvious. At that point, your employment risk becomes behavior and whether or not your management likes you vs someone else -- or if they want to stay in that business.... OTOH, if you work for yourself and you don't have a 10x margin to what you can survive on, well then your future as a consultant / contractor is actually a bit on the shaky side.

reply to post by BayesLike


Oh yeah, I completely understand that an MBA needs "replenished", as it were, from time to time. My dad did return for classes a few times. The job that he landed that took us overseas actually hinged on that, they gave him a window of time to accomplish it. For what to little kid seemed a long, long time, he shuffled between the office and his classes, and I didn't see him but for a few minutes in the mornings before school myself, if at all. That company was run by a very gracious and forgiving person that allowed the employees time to get their qualifications updated if a promotion required it, he was very grateful for that flexibility.

I don't know what kind of financial buffer he had for his private businesses, he was from that generation where the kids just didn't ask the parents about their incomes or it was considered rude. He drilled that into us, too, since it was how he was taught.

Easiest thing one can do - teach yourself computer programming. Average salary is 75k for a computer programmer. Granted - this is with a bachelor's degree however it is entirely possible to teach yourself completely and get hired at an introductory position then work up.

Also with programming, most employers will actually want to see examples of your work and if you are good at it than this helps the no degree thing. Just my two cents.

Computers will be around and needing tech-people to fix em for those less technologically inclined for decades, IMO.

reply to post by sarra1833


I totally agree, especially about law degrees. The average lawyer does not do all that well, a few do extremely well.

In nursing, a key problem here is importing similarly educated folks from elsewhere. That type of thing will keep your pay down and it may make it harder to advance. In addition, as you get older and accumulate vacation or incur more sick leave or "slow down" in general, your value drops. If you are still in the same role, years later, you simply won't rank as highly as before and your opportunities will dwindle.

In my industry, many key jobs are exported. In fact, most of the people I began working with who had similar degrees are unemployed. It's not hard to pinpoint what went wrong in most cases though -- they didn't stay on the leading edge in either the applications or where the company was headed. I broadly call it complacency. They get comfortable with what they are doing and it's easy to miss seeing where things are headed if you are doing a "good job." Complacency is quite dangerous in high tech. When the role you are in gets exported or the company moves into new areas, it doesn't matter if you did a good job. You can (maybe) get complacent as a tenured university prof, but not if you want to stay employed in high-tech until you reach retirement age.

Trades is the place to go, its easy and cheap courses and there will always be a demand for tradesmen, plumbers,electricians,painters,dry wallers,building maintenance,etc. Only issue is you might sweat and get dirty.

If anybody is really interested in a good wage job , you can do an online course(up here i canada) called 5th class boiler, its pretty much a course to help you into so many possible jobs. Most buildings, commercial or private of certain sizes need supervisors, pay is good, jobs are easy to get, hotels, arenas, shoping centers,high rise buildings, big schools, mills,industrial buildings, etc.

Its an easy course that can open alot of doors

lightedhype
Easiest thing one can do - teach yourself computer programming. Average salary is 75k for a computer programmer.

Over the years, I've come to believe that the majority of the population doesn't have the aptitude for serious programming. Count yourself one of the lucky few % who does! Programming requires a lot of the same type of discipline as does a degree in mathematics -- being able to work through a sketched out objective step by step. In math, this shows up as theorem-proof. It is a good discipline going forward and if you keep on the leading edge your work may not get outsourced to another country.

I'd make a lousy employee as a programmer. Not that I write poor code or do so slowly. Rather I hate to be told HOW to write code. I've probably written well over 1 million lines of code in a dozen languages in my career as a sideline to what I primarily do. I was tempted this evening in fact to begin learning another new "language" (Wolfram) to see what it might do for my personal enjoyment. This could be a really cool one to get into. Wolfram Language. It could be quite valuable in the fields of analysis that I'm considering as a next career move.