NATO says Russia has big force at Ukraine's border, worries over Transdniestria

ProfessorT
I read this news earlier this morning and when you think how close Russia are to NATO territory it brings this crisis into perspective. One false move from Russia would definitely force NATO to act nod they have been pretty clear with their rhetoric towards Russia. There are various reports and rumours suggesting Russia may invade further into Ukraine in the next few days.

edit on 23-3-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

That is a touch misleading and a clear reversal of truth.History show's that Russia has Always been where it is .Russia has not moved it's borders up against N.A.T.0 Territory as you put it. N.A.T.O is the newer arrival on the scene and the have intensionally surrounded Russia's borders with an aggressive offense shield.

13th Zodiac
That is a touch misleading and a clear reversal of truth.History show's that Russia has Always been where it is .Russia has not moved it's borders up against N.A.T.0 Territory as you put it. N.A.T.O is the newer arrival on the scene and the have intensionally surrounded Russia's borders with an aggressive offense shield.

That is a touch misleading and a clear reversal of truth. History show's that Russia was once a much larger country called the 'Soviet Union' and was also a member of a group called 'Warsaw Pact' NATO was it's counter balance. When the Soviet Union collapsed and most of the Warsaw pact countries ran screaming from Russian influence then NATO expanded.


Explain exactly what is a 'offense shield'? By it's very nature a shield is for defense...

reply to post by elysiumfire


well russia did just annex crimea but by which border does russia mean when they say "crimea"? the modern or ancient borders? if they mean one of the ancient definitions of crimea, like scythian, greek, roman, the crimean khanate or as the russian empire then southern ukraine counts as crimea too.

ressiv
all propaganda.... nato already sended lots of f16 to the Russia borders...now Russia respond they are moaning...
typical looooooooosers talk...

US no fleetbase at chrimeara EU found themself an gigantic moneypit....

how the west has lost :-)

edit on 23-3-2014 by ressiv because: (no reason given)

Hu? I think the hundreds of our fighters in Turkey will do let alone theirs and Poland's till our stealth aircraft show up and ruin the Russians day in a hurry. Turkey controls the access to the black sea so they can close it while our carrier aircraft and others sink the Russian fleet like shooting fish in a barrel.

MALBOSIA
From what I have been hearing on CBC, Transnistria region WANTS to join Russia. There was nothing to suggest that Russia was seeking their support. Only US media is reporting that Russia has her eyes on controlling that region.

Actually.. it wasn't US Media. The best sourcing I can find for the quote being covered comes from the Telegraph.uk, but now they seem to pop a 'pay to read' page within a few seconds of seeing the story appear. (scratch one outlet from my favorites). Anyway, the NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe (That's quite a title, eh?) said it. So NATO is the one worried about the idea of Moscow taking what locals don't want to give.

I dunno... I still say it's not America's issue and old Europe was old when we were getting our butts handed to us by King George. It's just not our business, IMO.

It's nuts, but Al Jazeera has the best coverage on this story without playing silly "pay me to read me" games. What IS the world coming to?

namehere
reply to post by elysiumfire

 

well russia did just annex crimea but by which border does russia mean when they say "crimea"? the modern or ancient borders? if they mean one of the ancient definitions of crimea, like scythian, greek, roman, the crimean khanate or as the russian empire then southern ukraine counts as crimea too.

edit on 23-3-2014 by namehere because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-3-2014 by namehere because: (no reason given)

Holy crap shhhh! lol. Don't give Putin any ideas or we will have a world war kick off. I think he needs to learn mainland Ukraine is off limits. Hopefully the European leaders can tell Obama to quit being a wussy this week and send Putin an oh hell no you wont message.

reply to post by elysiumfire


Have people really got this short memories?

Right back at the beginning of this crisis in Ukraine, Russia was quite publicly putting 150,000 troops through "exercises" in the border regions. Do you think they've all just vanished into thin air?

RT link, so you can't whine about any "bias"

reply to post by stumason


The troops were reportedly returned to barracks at the time.
Most likely a Putin Lie.

SLAYER69

13th Zodiac
That is a touch misleading and a clear reversal of truth.History show's that Russia has Always been where it is .Russia has not moved it's borders up against N.A.T.0 Territory as you put it. N.A.T.O is the newer arrival on the scene and the have intensionally surrounded Russia's borders with an aggressive offense shield.

That is a touch misleading and a clear reversal of truth. History show's that Russia was once a much larger country called the 'Soviet Union' and was also a member of a group called 'Warsaw Pact' NATO was it's counter balance. When the Soviet Union collapsed and most of the Warsaw pact countries ran screaming from Russian influence then NATO expanded.


Explain exactly what is a 'offense shield'? By it's very nature a shield is for defense...

Keep it real, Russia's border has not changed in recent history.You need to go that far back to twist the relevence of modern events.You should be in the White House with that BS. Russia existed Before N.A.T.O. N.A.T.O is on Russia's border not the other way around. If you don't realise that the misleading title of defense shield is exactly that.Your not worthy of a reply. Why is it in Europé? and not the Middle East? No, it was never intended for the Middle East, now was it? C'mon be honest! Stay off the XBOX and PS, it's make believe.In the real World you don't press restart and get up again.Becareful what you are wishing for , you may just get it.It's an avatar, it's not really you, hero.

SLAYER69

13th Zodiac
That is a touch misleading and a clear reversal of truth.History show's that Russia has Always been where it is .Russia has not moved it's borders up against N.A.T.0 Territory as you put it. N.A.T.O is the newer arrival on the scene and the have intensionally surrounded Russia's borders with an aggressive offense shield.

That is a touch misleading and a clear reversal of truth. History show's that Russia was once a much larger country called the 'Soviet Union' and was also a member of a group called 'Warsaw Pact' NATO was it's counter balance. When the Soviet Union collapsed and most of the Warsaw pact countries ran screaming from Russian influence then NATO expanded.


Explain exactly what is a 'offense shield'? By it's very nature a shield is for defense...

that is a touch misleading. Russia was a part of Soviet Union not Soviet Union. Also, since NATO was a counter balance to Warsaw Pact, how come NATO has not ceased to exist with collapse of Warsaw Pact. As a mater of fact is has grown and changed its doctrine from 'defense force' into brute and destructive force towards all those who are on the way of US&EU interests. By the way yesterday was 15 years since bombing and destruction of Serbia by NATO, 78 days of bombing 24/7.
Bridges, civilian buildings, hospitals, schools, embassies, TV centres...2000 civilians killed, 88 of them kids.
In the middle of Europe. Well done.

Patriotsrevenge

I think the hundreds of our fighters in Turkey will do let alone theirs and Poland's till our stealth aircraft show up and ruin the Russians day in a hurry. Turkey controls the access to the black sea so they can close it while our carrier aircraft and others sink the Russian fleet like shooting fish in a barrel.

Lol! Another American hawk puffing out his chest seeking war with Russia but will not themself be any where near the conflict. One or two posters think Russia would be a push over, but like I have stated elsewhere, some countries should never go to war, simply because of the global destructive impact the conflict between them would cause.

Obviously, they take pride in America's military might, even though in contemporary times it has never really picked on an opponent or foe that would truly give back what it takes. Russia would decimate America and Europe just as much as it itself would be decimated. No military conflict between Russia and the West would remain conventional for very long. It would most certainly turn nuclear, because each side would look to cause an equal loss to the other.

To Patriotsrevenge, and other posters as smug and arrogant like him, I hope you get what you want, because in order for you to understand the error of your offensive arrogance, you need to experience the conflict you seek firsthand and in your face. It is unfortunate that in doing so hundreds of thousands of your compatriots will have to die to fulfill your wish and your delight.

SLAYER69


Explain exactly what is a 'offense shield'? By it's very nature a shield is for defense...

I think it sorta the same policy they had during the Cold war in regards to Russia,

Isolate and surround with footholds,


Im still stuck on, have I lived long enough to be repeating the same damn history? Im only 33, I thought this thermal nuclear cold war nonsense was done with.

Although there certainly is that Nostalgia attached to the good ole enemy of the Soviets, I think Im gonna go watch rocky.

voiceofrussia.com...

Crimean electricity cut by 50%

Potential problems rising that can invite Russian invasion to SE Ukraine.

Fascists in Kiev want to pick a fight thinking NATO will come to their aid.

That is not happening.

300,000 German jobs are at stake as a result of trade with Russia.

40% of German gas comes from Gazprom and upto 80% of other NATO members.

NATO will not pick a fight for a non-NATO member. Budapest agreement remains trashed !!

victor7
voiceofrussia.com...

Crimean electricity cut by 50%

Potential problems rising that can invite Russian invasion to SE Ukraine.

Fascists in Kiev want to pick a fight thinking NATO will come to their aid.

That is not happening.

300,000 German jobs are at stake as a result of trade with Russia.

40% of German gas comes from Gazprom and upto 80% of other NATO members.

NATO will not pick a fight for a non-NATO member. Budapest agreement remains trashed !!

I got a question for you.(the following if for emphasis only not yelling sigh) WHY IN THE 9 LEVELS OF HELL DO YOU HAVE TO SUPPLY POWER TO A PART OF YOUR COUNTRY THAT BECAME PART OF ANOTHER ONE? YOU DONT! They are part of Russia now and as such fall under THEIR POWER GRID OR RESPONSIBILITY AND NOT UKRAINE.

If they cannot take responsibility for their actions thats on them. You dont see the US supplying power to mexico do you? So why should Ukrains have to power Crimea?

The Ukranians wont have to ask NATO for help. They already made a deal with the EU and that would be the UN this time if Putin gets froggy and wants to jump.

I swear. Crimea leaves and is annexxed by russia. they have no responsibility to th eregion anymore in ukraine. Its turning into Blackmail now.

reply to post by yuppa


Russia can immediately ask Ukraine to pay $20B under the Soviet debt. Then it can cut its gas and stall the industries. After that people in the East start a non cooperation with the government ex: not following rules or creating problems. Then government cracks down. Then Russia gets its excuse and invades and takes the SE Ukraine territory.

Don't count on EU/NATO/US. These are powerful bodies. Powerful people talk to another languages. They also understand that language of other powerful people. Russia is the 2nd most powerful country on earth and among the top 10 powerful in terms of economics.

No one is going to in as much get up from the chair to help Ukraine.

You are correct, It is turning into a blackmail.

Russia needs to get paid for $200-300B in gas subsidies that it gave Ukraine since 1991. No free lunch here. You take the subsidies and then turn around and stab the provider in the back. No when the provider is Russia. You could have gotten away if the provider was Belarus or Sweeden. Same old logic on the language of the powerful people.

victor7
reply to post by yuppa

 

Russia can immediately ask Ukraine to pay $20B under the Soviet debt. Then it can cut its gas and stall the industries. After that people in the East start a non cooperation with the government ex: not following rules or creating problems. Then government cracks down. Then Russia gets its excuse and invades and takes the SE Ukraine territory.

Don't count on EU/NATO/US. These are powerful bodies. Powerful people talk to another languages. They also understand that language of other powerful people. Russia is the 2nd most powerful country on earth and among the top 10 powerful in terms of economics.

No one is going to in as much get up from the chair to help Ukraine.

You are correct, It is turning into a blackmail.

Russia needs to get paid for $200-300B in gas subsidies that it gave Ukraine since 1991. No free lunch here. You take the subsidies and then turn around and stab the provider in the back. No when the provider is Russia. You could have gotten away if the provider was Belarus or Sweeden. Same old logic on the language of the powerful people.

Russia can ask for that money all day long,but acccording to international law you do not have to pay back a attacker. Russia has forfeit its money with that move. IF russia attacks openly Now it does not matter what you say they will be struck back.
PAtton was right they should have went to russias butt when they stopped germany.
As for GAs the US and canada can make up for the loss of russian energy. That might actually be the best thing to do.

yuppa
stion for you.(the following if for emphasis only not yelling sigh) WHY IN THE 9 LEVELS OF HELL DO YOU HAVE TO SUPPLY POWER TO A PART OF YOUR COUNTRY THAT BECAME PART OF ANOTHER ONE? YOU DONT! They are part of Russia now and as such fall under THEIR POWER GRID OR RESPONSIBILITY AND NOT UKRAINE.

If they cannot take responsibility for their actions thats on them. You dont see the US supplying power to mexico do you? So why should Ukrains have to power Crimea?

You are simply mistaken.

Gas is Russian. Ukraine is only a distributor (pipelines) to EU and of course to themselves and Crimea.
Ukraine has no right to shut of gas supply (to anyone) which is not theirs in the first place.
Especially since they don't like paying for it gimme gas 4 free - you my cousin or what?

reply to post by yuppa


In Natural Gas? Russia literally has no equal in the world. We are...or..ahem..were...the world leaders in coal. Until we crippled ourselves, anyway. Now we're setting records as it is on exporting our own natural gas during record prices paid for it, back home. We're playing real thin margins all around...before we even look at real numbers.

These are known, proven natural gas reserves for the top nations.

(Source)
Oh..and Canada? (no pun intended..) is #19. Not in the best leverage position in that market.

Oil is a different matter and a different chart. Rankings are considerably different too. On natural gas though? Russia could turn back the taps and just squeeze that price up there, and it won't hurt them to play that game. Gas, after all, comes from them. Not to them. Roughly 1/3 of European supply, actually.

Then, when nations have busted their buns to make up the shortfall from deliberate manipulation and shortages? Russia could turn the taps the other way and just let 'er flow to flood the markets and crash the prices. Again, with those reserves and margins above any other nation? It wouldn't bother them much, either way...but it would be catastrophic in places outside their borders.

Economic war on world power levels will be real real painful if it turns serious, for all sides in some way, IMO.

reply to post by benrl


What I find interesting is this notion that NATO is threatening Russia. Meanwhile NATO has been acting very timidly in Syria and now Ukraine how do people feel Russia is being threatened by a group of Nations that's been acting as if they haven't a swinging pair among or collaboratively?


Interesting times...

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge

so why is nato so interrested in the crimea....