Georgia bill could allow guns in bars, churches and airports

markosity1973

TiedDestructor

Phage
reply to post by TiedDestructor

 

The small town I live in has no gang activity and very little crime.
Up until this bill you could go into most any bar parking lot here in Ga and find multiple weapons in the vehicles of patrons.

So why make it legal to take your weapons inside?

edit on 3/16/2014 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Because dumb@ss criminals don't follow the law. I do.

So, are you saying that by taking a gun wherever you go, you are now going to take the law into your own hands?

That's a slippery slope indeed.

With a little reading comprehension it's easy to see what this person is saying, and it's not, "I'm going to take the law into my own hands".

It's, "I follow the law and leave the gun in the car, but criminals don't follow the law and that makes law abiding citizens targets for those criminals."

Gryphon66
According to the NRA there are 300 MILLION firearms in the hands of the American public right now, and that number increases by 10 million every year.

The idea that "they're coming for our guns" or than anyone's 2nd Amendment rights are being compromised is ludicrous.

You guys are worried about the guns in bars, I'm more interested to see what happens in the churches.

Nothing like a good ol' scriptural pissing match or a disagreement about which hand to handle the snake in to be concluded with BAM BAM ... BAM BAM BAM BAM.

"Evolution in action" is the ironic fact in all this.

I feel bad for the random kids that will get killed in these ridiculous situations.

Woman dies from injuries in church shooting..link..

Etta Medley, 61, died shortly after 4 p.m. Sunday from her injuries in a church shooting that happened last Sunday, Putnam County Sheriff David Andrews confirms. Just after 9 a.m. last Sunday, Putnam County officials received reports of an active shooter at Double Springs Community Church on Double Springs Road. "My first thought," said Putnam County Sheriff David Andrews, "was, 'Dear God, how many people are in the building, and what has happened?' Fortunately for everyone else, they weren't at church yet."

Read that last part

Next

Congregation comes together one year after two killed in sanctuary..link..

Jim David Adkisson, an unemployed ex-soldier with a hatred for liberal views, smuggled a shotgun inside a guitar case into the sanctuary the morning of Sunday, July 27, 2008. His shots killed two people - Greg McKendry and Linda Kraeger - and wounded six others before members forced him to the floor.

And then you have cases like this...

Concealed Carry Permit Holder Stops Shooter at a SC Church..link..

A concealed carry permit holder in Boiling Springs, SC was able to detain a shooter at his local church this Sunday until Sheriff’s deputies arrived on the scene. Jesse Gates, an attendee at Boiling Springs’ South Side Freewill Baptist Church was acting like he was having a heart attack on Sunday morning, according to Rev. Henry Guyton. Gates was cleared by EMS and left the premises, only to return later that morning and pull at shotgun out of the trunk of his car. Rev. Guyton’s grandson, Aaron Guyton, saw Gates pull the shotgun out and immediately went into the main building of the church and locked the doors. Gates kicked in the side door. Aaron Guyton, a concealed weapons permit holder, held Gates at gunpoint while church member Jesse Smith and Leland Powers held him to the floor waiting for deputies to arrive. Gates has been charged with second-degree burglary, disturbing a place of worship, kidnapping and three counts of pointing and presenting a firearm. The arrest warrants state that Gates pointed the shotgun at Smith, Rev. Henry Guyton and Powers and that the man intended to kidnap the pastor.

And...

Colorado Church Shooting Stopped by Concealed License Holder..link..

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. —When a black-clad gunman walked into New Life Church on Sunday and started shooting, he was met with the church's first line of defense: a congregant with a concealed weapons permit and a law enforcement background.The woman, an armed volunteer, shot and killed the gunman. New Life's pastor credited her with saving 100 lives. We had people undercover in the congregation who were armed," Dodd [of Colorado Springs, a former New Life Church staff member] said. "It was a big church at the time, it was Christian, and some people really hate that stuff.” "Not only do we have military and ex-military all over, we have this sort of frontier mentality. People around here are serious about protecting their own."

There are MANY more if you choose to look.

I prefer to sling bullets back not bibles....IMO

I did choose to look and you're right there are plenty of examples:

Pastor's Daughter Dies After Being Shot Accidentally at Church

Man Shot in "Unintentional Church Shooting" in Serious Condition

Enhanced Carry Permit holder Accidentally Discharges Gun in Church

Accidental Gun Shot in Church Sunday Morning

Guns don't belong at church. Period.

Gun Free zones are safe working environments for Spree Killers and other predatory criminals. Nothing more. Nothing less.

One of the people who was key in getting CCW rights established in my state was a woman who watched her family members executed right in front of her, while her gun was properly and legally stowed outside in her truck. Just as state law required it had to be at that time.

That came to be known as the "Luby's Massacre", among other things and funny how things work out for where very influential people came to start moving that direction, as well as why. If some nut job hadn't chosen to murder 2 dozen people that day, we probably wouldn't have CCW in Missouri today for how close it always was and how much she pushed it over that line for us all.

If Texas had allowed her to carry her gun inside, perhaps all two dozen people wouldn't have needed to die. The scumbag reloaded and took his time, playing with some victims for the freedom of action he knew he had with a captive audience. It was a nightmare ....with a way to have ended it, just feet away in the parking lot.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


With all due respect, you're dealing in emotionally-charged hypotheticals. You have no real evidence that the lady having the gun in her hand would have made a difference in the outcome of this tragedy.

Everyone who owns a gun who shoots down at the range once or twice a month is not ready to act and react in a live-shooter situation. Who knows what would have happened?

If she had a gun in her hand, I'm fairly sure she would have been a high-priority target for the shooter, that's one thing that's for certain.

She might have been a hero and saved the day, certainly. She might have been the first to go and any collateral damage would have only added to the body count.

You know Wrabbit, on the other hand, there's no argument against the idea that this is a dangerous world where more people carry and are more than willing to use high-powered, high volume, semi (automatic) weapons to create the greatest mayhem possible. Folks are nuts, that's for sure.

But is the real answer for all of us to carry all the time no matter where we go and be ready on a moment's notice to kill someone? Are we all to live in an armed camp?

If not, we'd have to do something to reduce the number of high-powered, high-volume semi (automatic) weapons, wouldn't we?

So, armed camp it is.

The NRA and firearms industries have accomplished what they set out to do.

reply to post by Gryphon66


Well, with all due respect returned....I've been carrying a firearm on a daily basis (when not on school grounds, anyway) since well before I got off the truck in 2010. I've been around guns and had one in my hand to shoot as both a past time and life skill since I was literally about 5 or 6. I have a cute pic here of nearly flying backward of my little feet, firing an old Springfield 30-06.

To people for whom guns are foreign and are first thought of as a weapon for what they can do TO people? They really are best left alone and I'll never..ever...advocate for everyone to be armed. Oh good god no. I saw two people in my CCW class who reminded me I carry a gun as much because of THEM as I do what they'd imagine they were shooting at ...as one of them made a full size target at 7 yards look like it had been shotgunned ...with a .22 automatic.

Then again, I'd recommend high performance, high speed vehicles for even fewer people while still others have heard a word or two from me about just how BAD an idea their fascination with home improvement with power tools as a method of exploring our medical system really is. Some folks......and it really does take all kinds.

However, I do and will carry my personal weapon for personal defense because I have seen enough in my lifetime to know the odds are not in my favor for living the entire thing without facing a serious defense situation at least once. If I have no means to defend myself, I'm at the tender mercies of someone who is already breaking laws to have gotten us both to that point ..and mercy ain't likely coming.

To those of us comfortable with guns to see them as a tool (and really, more a pain in the ass than any 'neat' factor for carrying, to be honest here) it's just a given and a part of life. Like grabbing your wallet and keys. I grab my gun in the same routine sweep out the door. Have for years.

Gryphon66
I did choose to look and you're right there are plenty of examples:

Pastor's Daughter Dies After Being Shot Accidentally at Church

Man Shot in "Unintentional Church Shooting" in Serious Condition

Enhanced Carry Permit holder Accidentally Discharges Gun in Church

Accidental Gun Shot in Church Sunday Morning

Guns don't belong at church. Period.

I'll bite.

In regards to to what belongs at church. Who are you, mind you the government, to regulate restrictions of a religious institution? I believe church policy should dictate restrictions WITHIN the church.

Incidents that occur illegally will occur regardless of laws and or restrictions put forth by any entity. That being said we can state for fact that illegal acts can't be prevented.

There is another fact which is equally disturbing. The fact that a citizen showing respect and abiding by the law can be put into a situation where they CANNOT defend against loss of life.

Who in the h3ll are we to punish the just in the name of preventable harm by an armed citizen? I can guarentee harm will occur at the hands of a deranged killer within a church populous. Any multiplier of force would be welcomed in the face of certain death. Must we fall like sheep in the night?

I have stated in previous threads that my personal firearm has twice de-escalated an attempted mugging (Atlanta, GA) and armed robbery in a retail location in my hometown.

Would they have killed me had I cooperated? Well I call that a 50/50 chance...who knows? I can tell you what I do know. My weapon, used appropriately, put me in the advantage and prevented any loss...including loss of life.

Finally I will reference you to thisWebsite

It keeps up daily with reports of armed civilians, homeowners and police who use justified deadly force to prevent and or dissuade further loss of life. Many of these stories don't make mainstream media. You will see why an armed populous is NECESSARY for discouraging nefarious and psychotic criminal behavior.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I doubt anyone would say you don't deserve to carry your side arm, or whatever arms you decided to carry. You're evidently a bright, responsible, even-tempered rational individual. Were this a nation full of Wrabbits, I'd sleep a lot better at night.

Sadly, you're not the average. Not everyone takes the kind of responsibility that you do.

reply to post by TiedDestructor


... and that has nothing to do with the subject under discussion. We're not talking about whatever rules and regulations churches want to impose on their membership. I haven't said word one about legislating on behalf of a religious institution.

I also haven't said word one about regulating you and your right to carry personal arms to defend yourself.

I just happen to be of the considered opinion that toting a gun into a bar, or a church, is not the best idea. I don't believe in the power of the gun. You, like Wrabbit above, seem like a reasonable and responsible person. The general public probably IS safer with your gun at your side ... but again, you and Wrabbit aren't the problem that anyone addresses in terms of gun control.

That's certainly not the issue in Georgia (I live here too, btw.) I happen to personally know a lot of "good ol boys" that would love to get in some kind of gun battle, because they think it would transact like a video game.

Folks like you and Wrabbit, know that it wouldn't.

Those good Americans, who have the same right to carry as anyone, but who take their gun knowledge and awareness from the movies or TV or video games ... are the folks that frighten me, especially with high-power, high-clipped semi-automatic weapons at their disposal.

And don't tell me that I don't know them, because I do.

reply to post by Gryphon66


I appreciate your confidence. Of course Missouri made sure with some formal effort..a couple times now, counting my recent renewal. (5 years here now.).

I think the bar issue is a touchy one, personally. I DO agree that I don't see any purpose for someone to be packing into a honky tonk or other sawdust on the floor 'entertainment' establishment. I don't care if I'm sober or not, to use myself as an example. The worst place I could possibly imagine to use a gun in even the very best of perfect circumstances is in a room full of drunk people, at least 1/3rd of which will want to be Bruce Willis in Die Hard and half of those idiots will pick the wrong side to go yippee kiyay at.

The problem there? While we can agree on the idea of a drinking bar and how bad firearms are to have there (even cops do stupid crap in bars), what about the Steakhouse who has a small bar area off to the side but whose revenue is just crappy and balances a bit more off booze than burgers? In some laws, that ratio is the primary determining factor between a "no guns" sign we can walk past and ignore in Missouri (you must leave if asked, though...without so much as a 'but...') and a "no guns" sign that will see you meeting the same sheriff that signed your permit in a most...awkward...position.

reply to post by Gryphon66


That was a respectable answer and it's clearly a difference of opinion between us. We do believe many of the same things so we share some of the same as well.

Gryphon66
I did choose to look and you're right there are plenty of examples:

Pastor's Daughter Dies After Being Shot Accidentally at Church

Man Shot in "Unintentional Church Shooting" in Serious Condition

Enhanced Carry Permit holder Accidentally Discharges Gun in Church

Accidental Gun Shot in Church Sunday Morning

Guns don't belong at church. Period.

This is the funniest thing I've read all day.

TiedDestructor
There is another fact which is equally disturbing. The fact that a citizen showing respect and abiding by the law can be put into a situation where they CANNOT defend against loss of life.

Also, you can't shoot down a Russian MIG since you're totally not allowed to own a SAM.
Meanwhile, your law abiding citizens may wish to be protected from people bringing firearms into locatations that they're certainly not warranted nor welcomed. You know.... that principle you're already aware of that doesn't need explanation since nobody's ever asked why you can't take your firearm on a plane.

Who in the h3ll are we to punish the just in the name of preventable harm by an armed citizen? I can guarentee harm will occur at the hands of a deranged killer within a church populous. Any multiplier of force would be welcomed in the face of certain death. Must we fall like sheep in the night?

Calm down. The theatrics don't match reality. Have a conversation with your minister about the need for force multipliers and sheep in the night and see if he has any recommendations for you.

TheProphetMark
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Guns and Alcohol? What could go wrong there right?

We have so many laws, people need to perfect them instead of coming up with new laws just because they can. I guess they have nothing better to do but to make up stupid laws to make themselves feel powerful about their place in Society.

See, this is the problem. MSM reports something with a spin and people eat it up. Had a similar issue in my state. You could not CCW in a place if it served alcohol. So if you wanted to go to Outback and have a burger and a Coke, you would be a criminal--unless you were a cop, agent of the court, or a politician--those people had exemptions to the rule. The law was changed by popular demand to you could CCW into a place that served alcohol AS LONG AS YOU WERE NOT DRINKING YOURSELF. Kind of like you can buy a bottle of scotch at the liquor store and drive home with it as long as you were not taking sips out of it. Thus the "mixing guns and alcohol" is a bit of hysterical hyperbole that is factually incorrect.

Gryphon66
reply to post by TiedDestructor

 

... and that has nothing to do with the subject under discussion. We're not talking about whatever rules and regulations churches want to impose on their membership. I haven't said word one about legislating on behalf of a religious institution.

I also haven't said word one about regulating you and your right to carry personal arms to defend yourself.

I just happen to be of the considered opinion that toting a gun into a bar, or a church, is not the best idea. I don't believe in the power of the gun. You, like Wrabbit above, seem like a reasonable and responsible person. The general public probably IS safer with your gun at your side ... but again, you and Wrabbit aren't the problem that anyone addresses in terms of gun control.

That's certainly not the issue in Georgia (I live here too, btw.) I happen to personally know a lot of "good ol boys" that would love to get in some kind of gun battle, because they think it would transact like a video game.

Folks like you and Wrabbit, know that it wouldn't.

Those good Americans, who have the same right to carry as anyone, but who take their gun knowledge and awareness from the movies or TV or video games ... are the folks that frighten me, especially with high-power, high-clipped semi-automatic weapons at their disposal.

And don't tell me that I don't know them, because I do.

Assuming that the Church as private property does not want firearms in it--I respect that very much--how does a law banning guns in a church help the people of the church and what makes a religious public venue different than any other public venue?

hexillion

TiedDestructor
There is another fact which is equally disturbing. The fact that a citizen showing respect and abiding by the law can be put into a situation where they CANNOT defend against loss of life.

Also, you can't shoot down a Russian MIG since you're totally not allowed to own a SAM.
Meanwhile, your law abiding citizens may wish to be protected from people bringing firearms into locatations that they're certainly not warranted nor welcomed. You know.... that principle you're already aware of that doesn't need explanation since nobody's ever asked why you can't take your firearm on a plane.

Who in the h3ll are we to punish the just in the name of preventable harm by an armed citizen? I can guarentee harm will occur at the hands of a deranged killer within a church populous. Any multiplier of force would be welcomed in the face of certain death. Must we fall like sheep in the night?

Calm down. The theatrics don't match reality. Have a conversation with your minister about the need for force multipliers and sheep in the night and see if he has any recommendations for you.

And "you can't shoot down a Russian MIG since you're totally not allowed to own a SAM" isn't unrealistic theatrics? LOL.


Bad guys like to do bad things in places they know where the people are unable to defend themselves. How does a ban against lawful CCW in a church make the church people any better off and why should a church be different than any other public venue for need vs not need for self defense?

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Well I am a GA resident and my husband is a gun owner, , This bill is nothing more and nothing else than a formality, why? because people already bring their guns pretty much where they want to in GA, my husband does.

Is really no problem when it comes to carrying concealed weapons here, you can either show them or have them hidden, is not complains at all.

So is just a formality, to put in writing what gun owners has been doing always, carry their guns pretty much everywhere.

Good. More guns = less crime. Actually, it goes beyond that. More guns = more respect in general. You didn't see people running around playing "knock out games" a hundred years ago because they knew if they did that crap they had a good chance of being shot. That's the entire reason the phrase "respect your elders" even exists. Because if you didn't one of those senile old bats might just pull out a .44. I mean, this Liberal garbage needs to stop. The more you advertise areas as "gun free zones" the more they become targets for criminals.

The idea that a law prevents someone from committing a prohibited act is foolish. Regardless of whether guns are allowed at bars or churches, if one is so inclined, one will being a gun to those places. However, knowing that "law abiding" individuals may have also brought a gun to said places could possibly force the aforementioned individual to think twice before committing a crime.

Laws do not prevent criminal behavior, they simply criminalize behavior.

hexillion

TiedDestructor
There is another fact which is equally disturbing. The fact that a citizen showing respect and abiding by the law can be put into a situation where they CANNOT defend against loss of life.

Also, you can't shoot down a Russian MIG since you're totally not allowed to own a SAM.
Meanwhile, your law abiding citizens may wish to be protected from people bringing firearms into locatations that they're certainly not warranted nor welcomed. You know.... that principle you're already aware of that doesn't need explanation since nobody's ever asked why you can't take your firearm on a plane.

Who in the h3ll are we to punish the just in the name of preventable harm by an armed citizen? I can guarentee harm will occur at the hands of a deranged killer within a church populous. Any multiplier of force would be welcomed in the face of certain death. Must we fall like sheep in the night?

Calm down. The theatrics don't match reality. Have a conversation with your minister about the need for force multipliers and sheep in the night and see if he has any recommendations for you.

"May wish to be protected"

uh huh and their wishes aren't granted by a gunman correct?

"Nobody's ever asked you why you can't take your firearm on a plane."

I carry guns on a plain in route to competitions. I can't hijack a church and crash it into something.

"Calm down. The theatrics don't match reality"

Theatrics? Don't you get it; that's what ALL this is. And in regards to my former pastor? He packed heat...this is South Georgia