An Important Question for ALL atheists...

reply to post by Maverick7

This is ridiculous and an effrontery to those who are not dogmatically inclined to make their beliefs public.

And yet... You made yours public...

People who are not 'deists' do not group themselves into categories,

Well, I'm not a "deist". But, I DO, INDEED, consider myself an agnostic.

nor do they spend time trying to PROVE there is no deity.

Some do... But, I know that you're not one of them. All that you seem capable of, is: Saying, "Your wrong!", and ignoring all questions.

At most they will point out, if asked, the problems with ORGANIZED RELIGION.

NONSENSE!

When I ask questions of atheists, more often, than not, I only get attempted "personal attacks". And, with your response, that assertion was, once again, confirmed.

Are YOU, the OP, being a belligerent dogmatic to post this claptrap?

I don't have an interest in YOUR BELIEFS. So, make your own mind (?) up.

And, of course, I have a question for you:
Are you, another one of those "belligerent" atheists that can, only, submit "personal attacks"? It, certainly, seems that way.,,

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by BenReclused

NONSENSE!

When I ask questions of atheists, more often, than not, I only get attempted "personal attacks". And, with your response, that assertion was, once again, confirmed.

Usually because, from what I have observed, you try to make an example of them. And your methods are...provocative.

reply to post by BenReclused


I like agnostics they are open to reasonable and respectful discussion, and they don't troll the religious forums with stupid off topic sarcastic posts.
It got to the point where they shut both religious forums down early, how bad is that ?
But the MODS at ATS have been pretty good over the last few years of keeping it under at least some control.

reply to post by BenReclused

To a true agnostic, the existence of God will never be known, unless, of course, he does, indeed, exist. Because of that, I feel that many agnostics are, MUCH MORE LIKELY, to become theists.

So it's very likely god exists?

I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?

reply to post by BenReclused


If I understand you correctly, you're saying a god can only be proven, never disproved. But if it can be proven, it is following rules which also allow it to be disproven, should it in fact be false.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Unless he's postulating, in the event of existence, the proof comes postmortem

reply to post by BenReclused

However, and quite often, I feel more like a "target", walking around in a "no man's land". But, that's okay... I have, absolutely, no doubt, about my ability to respond, with "overwhelming" force.

I got a good laugh at this, friend. I love the hyperbole. We're so hard done by here while sitting staring at screens, aren't we?

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Unless he's postulating, in the event of existence, the proof comes postmortem

As in proving a god used to exist, even if it no longer does?

Its funny to me to hear theists whining about someone trying to "shut them up"....as though they forget that for the last, oh, say, millenia, atheists have been ostracized, criticized, harassed, imprisoned and killed by theists.

Its almost as though some of you dont like it that we live in a free time when atheists can speak their mind without fear of retribution. Seems some of you would rather go back to a time when fear of death kept atheists from espousing what they think.

Ya know, its really sad that some people dont understand how incredibly hypocritical it is to say "these are my beliefs. Keep yours to yourself".

But hey, theres no bigger hypocrite, liar, and narcissist than the devoutly religious person.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

So it's very likely god exists?

It might be, but I can't confirm that, so I don't put any faith in it. Therefore, that is not, one of my beliefs.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

That is quite, obviously, so. If you, truly were agnostic, you wouldn't have any problem with that.

Can you elaborate?

Sure: I don't believe, what I can't (objectively) confirm.

Why do you find, such a simple concept, so hard to understand?

See ya buddy,
Milt

PS:
Did you get a chance to read my last response to you? If not, I'd be more that happy to send you a copy. Kindly, let me know...

reply to post by BenReclused


I don't see how any of that was an explanation for why 'true agnostics' are much more likely to become theists.. That was my question.

PS:
Did you get a chance to read my last response to you? If not, I'd be more that happy to send you a copy. Kindly, let me know…

You don't reply to the vast majority of my posts to you. You want me to reply to all your posts at least make some attempt at addressing what I say. Seriously what the heck dude. It's like you think everyone owes you something.

**Edit: I just checked. You never replied to my earlier post in this thread. So what did I fail to reply to??

I don't believe, what I can't (objectively) confirm.

So you have objectively confirmed Ma'at doesn't exist? Because you said you didn't believe Ma'at exists.

While not an atheist, I read through this thread to see what they were going to reply to you, and aside from personal attacks, I really can't see how anyone answered your question, who admitted to being an atheist.

I have had dealings with real agnostics over the years, and you seem like one of them. I really feel sorry for you guys, because it seems you cannot find true faith.

I read somewhere that you disagree that someone should try to convert another person. I disagree with that. Of course you are referring to atheists who try adamantly to convert people to their atheistic beliefs. It is called neo-atheistm. and it is indeed a recent and growing movement around the world.

I also liked how you brought out the point that people who try and control what other people think are tyrants at least at heart. And that is what a lot of these people are, they are tyrants, intolerant than anything other than their limited and narrow-minded world view, and wish to eradicate any other forms of thought. They are a dangerous group of people. And soon I believe it will all come to a head, and mankind will really see the disgusting nature of their attitude, when it is forced upon the people, much like Hitler forced his occltish worldview upon the world. Another Holocaust will ensue. They no doubt will justify their depravity, as much as the Nazis did theirs.

Now, to get back to the reason why I disagree that converting people is wrong, is that Jesus Christ, the model for all true Christians, went around speaking truth and converting people where he could. He exposed hypocrites without mercy, and loved truth. Yet he never forced anyone to do anything. He just stated the facts, treated people with respect and love and dignity and honor, and hoped for the best. The majority of people ignored him. Many took advantage of him, many hated him and tried to murder him, (which eventually they did), and a few humble people of meek disposition, who loved truth, and were honest, listened to him and became his followers.

The same is true today. There are not many true Christians in the world. There are many counterfeit ones, but not many true ones. And they do the same, they are humble, they love truth, and hate falsehood and hypocrisy. They will teach you what they know, if you want to listen, they will continue. If you reject it, they will leave you alone and keep on. Just as Jesus said, if anyone refuses to listen to you, shake the dust off your feet, (that is you are no longer blood-guilty concerning the household or city) and move along until you find someone worthy, rightly disposed for everlasting life.

Jesus himself praised God for hiding the truth from the intellectuals of the world and revealing it to mere "babes" who speak and preach "foolishness to them. In fact scripture indicates that God in his wisdom decided to hide his wisdom from the self-proclaimed intellectuals of the world, so that he might use what they consider "foolish" to save those believing.

Another thought, even one of Jesus' apostles did not believe he was resurrected. he said he would not believe it until he saw it with his own eyes and stuck his fingers through the holes in his hands. He came to be known as doubting Thomas. And when Jesus materialized into fleshly form in front of Thomas in a locked room and revealed himself to him as being a live and Thomas professed faith, Jesus stated:

(John 20:29) 29 Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe.”

And in another place in the Holy Scriptures of truth it is written:

(2 Thessalonians 3:2) . . ., for faith is not a possession of all people.

In fact the scriptures reveal that one cannot have true faith unless God himself out of his great mercy gives it to the person:

(Romans 12:3) . . .each one as God has distributed to him a measure of faith.

We know that one cannot have faith without God's spirit for it is a part of its fruitage:

(Galatians 5:22, 23) . . .On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control.. . .


So without holy spirit, that is God's active force in one's life, and God's granting the person a measure of faith that person cannot attain to it, no matter how hard they may wish.

That does not mean it is not attainable by anyone. In fact all are shown that if they ask for it in sincerity they will receive it:

(Matthew 7:7, 8) . . .“Keep on asking, and it will be given YOU; keep on seeking, and YOU will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to YOU. 8 For everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking it will be opened.


And Jehovah tells us:

(Proverbs 2:3-6) . . .and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, 4 if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep searching for it, 5 in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah, and you will find the very knowledge of God. 6 For Jehovah himself gives wisdom; out of his mouth there are knowledge and discernment.


Those are the two keys from converting from an agnostic to a believer with true faith, which is not blind but built upon a solid foundation, based upon sound facts that can be proven.

The beauty of faith is that only God grants it to whom he decides. We can't, I can't determine how God thinks. It is impossible for anyone to know how he is going to act. So a man of God, who has real faith, has it because God himself, as Blue Jay pointed out, has revealed himself to that person. And they have no doubt about it. An atheist will scoff, because they think they know better and they KNOW he cannot exist. An agnostic cannot know, and thinks he will never know, and has not received this enlightenment.

But it is not wrong for a true believer to try and use reasoning to try and persuade a non-believer into understanding the truth. Where it crosses the line is when a person does not respect another's point of view, and tries to force their ideas on the other.

We learn from God. He does not force anyone to believe anything. That is why their are so many different forms of belief. If God wanted he could easily reveal himself to everyone right now.

But he does promise to do so at his own time. To those who are dead, they are promised to be resurrected back to life on a paradise earth, where they will learn about God. To those alive now, who are being preached to, at the end God will reveal himself and magnify himself before the nations before getting rid of all wicked and ungodly people.

Be it as it be, no one ever living will ever have a doubt about the reality of God. He knows this. Only, his time-table is vastly different to that of a mere human who lives but just a breath before he expires. God is not impatient as we are but he does reveal this:

(2 Peter 3:9) Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.

My two cents

In an infinite universe anything that can happen will

Therefore somewhere there are pink unicorns (or insert your own favourite animal) orbiting mars ( or insert favorite planet)

so really nothing is impossible as long as it is possible

That includes god and no god

Just pick yiur universe

I love infinites

reply to post by BenReclused

It might be, but I can't confirm that, so I don't put any faith in it. Therefore, that is not, one of my beliefs.

Stating that you feel it is a possibility is a belief though.

Sure: I don't believe, what I can't (objectively) confirm.

You just said it might be a possibility though.

reply to post by BenReclused


WOW .. that was snotty. (and I"m not your 'buddy' )
Instead of insults ... answer the questions. They are simple and straight forward.

1 - Why do you think that all atheists are on a quest to prove that God does not exist?
2 - Why do you think that all atheists are trying to convince others that God doesn't exist?
And i'll add another ... why three threads from you in one week on the same topic ??

I stand by my statement - Sure some are doing that ... but most just simply don't care what people believe or disbelieve. There are FAR MORE atheists in the world then belong to the little atheist clubs that try to push atheism. And there are FAR MORE deists in the world that try to push their version of religion then there are atheists doing so.

BenReclused
Reason for "Religious Conspiracies":
Though, hidden in the shadows, and rarely heard, THERE'S a CONSPIRACY a FOOT, to shut theists up

I don't know if there is a conspiracy, that would imply something secret or possibly illicit. From my perspective the effort to shut-up theists or educate the superstitious masses seems pretty blatant.

reply to post by FlyersFan

WOW .. that was snotty. (and I"m not your 'buddy' )
Instead of insults ... answer the questions. They are simple and straight forward.

1 - Why do you think that all atheists are on a quest to prove that God does not exist?
2 - Why do you think that all atheists are trying to convince others that God doesn't exist?
And i'll add another ... why three threads from you in one week on the same topic ??

I stand by my statement - Sure some are doing that ... but most just simply don't care what people believe or disbelieve. There are FAR MORE atheists in the world then belong to the little atheist clubs that try to push atheism. And there are FAR MORE deists in the world that try to push their version of religion then there are atheists doing so.

Once again, your response is nothing more than a veiled personal attack, that has absolutely nothing to do with the question posted in the OP.

See ya buddy,
Milt