While not an atheist, I read through this thread to see what they were going to reply to you, and aside from personal attacks, I really can't see how
anyone answered your question, who admitted to being an atheist.
I have had dealings with real agnostics over the years, and you seem like one of them. I really feel sorry for you guys, because it seems you cannot
find true faith.
I read somewhere that you disagree that someone should try to convert another person. I disagree with that. Of course you are referring to atheists
who try adamantly to convert people to their atheistic beliefs. It is called neo-atheistm
it is indeed a recent and growing movement around the world.
I also liked how you brought out the point that people who try and control what other people think are tyrants at least at heart. And that is what a
lot of these people are, they are tyrants, intolerant than anything other than their limited and narrow-minded world view, and wish to eradicate any
other forms of thought. They are a dangerous group of people. And soon I believe it will all come to a head, and mankind will really see the
disgusting nature of their attitude, when it is forced upon the people, much like Hitler forced his occltish worldview upon the world. Another
Holocaust will ensue. They no doubt will justify their depravity, as much as the Nazis did theirs.
Now, to get back to the reason why I disagree that converting people is wrong, is that Jesus Christ, the model for all true Christians, went around
speaking truth and converting people where he could. He exposed hypocrites without mercy, and loved truth. Yet he never forced anyone to do
anything. He just stated the facts, treated people with respect and love and dignity and honor, and hoped for the best. The majority of people
ignored him. Many took advantage of him, many hated him and tried to murder him, (which eventually they did), and a few humble people of meek
disposition, who loved truth, and were honest, listened to him and became his followers.
The same is true today. There are not many true Christians in the world. There are many counterfeit ones, but not many true ones. And they do the
same, they are humble, they love truth, and hate falsehood and hypocrisy. They will teach you what they know, if you want to listen, they will
continue. If you reject it, they will leave you alone and keep on. Just as Jesus said, if anyone refuses to listen to you, shake the dust off your
feet, (that is you are no longer blood-guilty concerning the household or city) and move along until you find someone worthy, rightly disposed for
Jesus himself praised God for hiding the truth from the intellectuals of the world and revealing it to mere "babes" who speak and preach "foolishness
to them. In fact scripture indicates that God in his wisdom decided to hide his wisdom from the self-proclaimed intellectuals of the world, so that
he might use what they consider "foolish" to save those believing.
Another thought, even one of Jesus' apostles did not believe he was resurrected. he said he would not believe it until he saw it with his own eyes
and stuck his fingers through the holes in his hands. He came to be known as doubting Thomas. And when Jesus materialized into fleshly form in front
of Thomas in a locked room and revealed himself to him as being a live and Thomas professed faith, Jesus stated:
(John 20:29) 29 Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe.”
And in another place in the Holy Scriptures of truth it is written:
(2 Thessalonians 3:2) . . ., for faith is not a possession of all people.
In fact the scriptures reveal that one cannot have true faith unless God himself out of his great mercy gives it to the person:
(Romans 12:3) . . .each one as God has distributed to him a measure of faith.
We know that one cannot have faith without God's spirit for it is a part of its fruitage:
(Galatians 5:22, 23) . . .On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 mildness, self-control.. . .
So without holy spirit, that is God's active force in one's life, and God's granting the person a measure of faith that person cannot attain to it, no
matter how hard they may wish.
That does not mean it is not attainable by anyone. In fact all are shown that if they ask for it in sincerity they will receive it:
(Matthew 7:7, 8) . . .“Keep on asking, and it will be given YOU; keep on seeking, and YOU will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to
YOU. 8 For everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking it will be opened.
And Jehovah tells us:
(Proverbs 2:3-6) . . .and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, 4 if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures
you keep searching for it, 5 in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah, and you will find the very knowledge of God. 6 For Jehovah
himself gives wisdom; out of his mouth there are knowledge and discernment.
Those are the two keys from converting from an agnostic to a believer with true faith, which is not blind but built upon a solid foundation, based
upon sound facts that can be proven.
The beauty of faith is that only God grants it to whom he decides. We can't, I can't determine how God thinks. It is impossible for anyone to know
how he is going to act. So a man of God, who has real faith, has it because God himself, as Blue Jay pointed out, has revealed himself to that
person. And they have no doubt about it. An atheist will scoff, because they think they know better and they KNOW he cannot exist. An agnostic
cannot know, and thinks he will never know, and has not received this enlightenment.
But it is not wrong for a true believer to try and use reasoning to try and persuade a non-believer into understanding the truth. Where it crosses
the line is when a person does not respect another's point of view, and tries to force their ideas on the other.
We learn from God. He does not force anyone to believe anything. That is why their are so many different forms of belief. If God wanted he could
easily reveal himself to everyone right now.
But he does promise to do so at his own time. To those who are dead, they are promised to be resurrected back to life on a paradise earth, where they
will learn about God. To those alive now, who are being preached to, at the end God will reveal himself and magnify himself before the nations before
getting rid of all wicked and ungodly people.
Be it as it be, no one ever living will ever have a doubt about the reality of God. He knows this. Only, his time-table is vastly different to that
of a mere human who lives but just a breath before he expires. God is not impatient as we are but he does reveal this:
(2 Peter 3:9) Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any
to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.
edit on 9-3-2014 by iSomeone because: (no reason given)