“Budapest Memorandum” Treaty Signed In 1994 May Commit U.S., Britain To Defend Ukraine

reply to post by crazyewok


Respect the position he held, serving in the armed forces is a huge deal, and I think all soldiers should be respected for what they do.

However....... UK, France, Germany and most of Asia sent US aid following Hurricane Katrina.

reply to post by crazyewok


The treaty must come first, it's how we have always worked. If we didn't then our word would mean nothing, and we are better than that, we don't need to go in ourselves, look at the US/Taiwan treaty, t states the US will supply Taiwan with the means by which to defend itself. I just don't think we can sit by and do nothing.

la2


Respect the position he held, serving in the armed forces is a huge deal, and I think all soldiers should be respected for what they do.

Respect is lost when you act like a unappreciative arrogant arse.

Why I say hes a disgrace. He is makeing other marines look bad when Im sure the majority are quite the opposite.

reply url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1000172/pg3#pid1760post by la2[/url]



I do agree with your point, but at least we pretended to have a reason for our illegal wars.
Terrorism, Taliban, al Qaeda and WMDs.
I agree we cannot throw stones, but Russia are doing all of this silently, not seeking UN assistance or advice and have no legitimate reason to do it.

What if they invade another nation after? Start rebuilding the USSR, then what?

la2
reply to post by crazyewok

 

The treaty must come first, it's how we have always worked. If we didn't then our word would mean nothing, and we are better than that, we don't need to go in ourselves, look at the US/Taiwan treaty, t states the US will supply Taiwan with the means by which to defend itself. I just don't think we can sit by and do nothing.

Ok you want intervention

so are you going to sign up then?

reply to post by stargatetravels


That's the worry, where will this lead?

reply to post by crazyewok


For the right reasons I would, up holding our word, helping a country that can't help itself, that's a cause worth fighting for.

However, if our leaders were not so weak, it wouldn't come to war, war should always be a last resort.

stargatetravels
We should honor it I think, even if not, as part of the UN we should defend the ukraine against Russia.
F Russia and F their bullying tactics.
Russia have no right to invade after the people of Ukraine spoke and overthrew their leaders.

Russia should leave them alone and realze that the USSR is no more.

The UN won't do anything about this except issue a strongly worded letter. Russia sits on the UN Security Council. What do you think they will do? Authorize the use of force against themselves?

I have just read the Budapest Memorandum, in which it states,

Budapest memorandum.

1:Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
2:Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
3:Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
3:Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
4:Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
5:Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.
Items 1 and 3 have already been violated by US/EU.
If Putin has solid evidence of above violations he is currently acting within the terms of the agreement.

Signed; 5 December 1994,


If Putin has solid evidence of above violations he is currently acting within the terms of the agreement.

reply to post by la2


Regarding Syria. Obama needed Assad to fall for his AQ Muslim bros however not one country wants Assad to be anywhere he not already is, including Israel. Israel and Russia forced Obama to stand down.

Israel will invade if the Muslim Brotherhood get control of Syria and that is a 100% fact. Russia knows this and so does the rest of the world. Its better to have the guy you know than the wacko extremist.

Everyone says nothing can be done to stop Russia but if they try to invade Ukraine proper then all bet are off. NATO will not let Putin move west in that big of a way and Ukraine is not some small country like Georgia. Putin did not take all of Georgia because Bush stood him down and made a deal.

Russia is no match for our air and sea power. Our forces are battle hardened and would cut Russian ground forces to shreds before our ground forces ever got to the fight. If most of Ukraine unite because Putin does something more stupid than he already has the fighting would bog Russian troops down in a fight they can not win in any short period of time. The Georgia war showed how bad Russian forces were at anything other than the ordinary ground troops over running a small force.

Should anyone go to war, no. The only way to stop Putin is to stand up to him, its the same thing that prevented war with them since WW2.

Those that advocate war are most likely not going to be going themselves. Funny how that is usually the case. I wish I could see the eligibility or former service records of every ATS member that has been pro war or pro bring on the apocalypse. My guess is they are either not eligible and have never served.

It is so easy to sit back and advocate something that will not risk ones own hide............

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge


Military might is only useful if the president is willing to use it, and I don't think he has the stomach, and don't think that a US lead confrontation with Russia would stay like that, China would be forced to take sides, and I don't see them abandoning Russia.

reply to post by Mamatus


So you think that just because a person can sit there, see a treaty, and acknowledge that a treaty obligation exists that makes them pro-war?

I don't think so. I'm not pro-war, not when it could tip off a conflict that threatens to become far larger than anything we've seen in a generation or so, and I'm not really pro-war when it doesn't directly concern our interests.

However, we signed the treaty. That's a promise we made to another country. If you want other countries to help us out when we need it, we need to honor our treaty obligations, even if that means we might wind up in wars. You're anger here is misplaced. You should be angry at those who got us into this treaty to begin with.

ketsuko
reply to post by Mamatus

 

So you think that just because a person can sit there, see a treaty, and acknowledge that a treaty obligation exists that makes them pro-war?

I don't think so. I'm not pro-war, not when it could tip off a conflict that threatens to become far larger than anything we've seen in a generation or so, and I'm not really pro-war when it doesn't directly concern our interests.

However, we signed the treaty. That's a promise we made to another country. If you want other countries to help us out when we need it, we need to honor our treaty obligations, even if that means we might wind up in wars. You're anger here is misplaced. You should be angry at those who got us into this treaty to begin with.

Anger? You are hearing something that did not exist in my post. If you think we need to support this treaty than it essentially means that you support the need for conflict. That is all I have to say on the matter as I am here to watch the news on the Ukraine, not debate.

A lot of you guys need to chill out, a lot of you guys inject your personal feelings in this issue, you got guys insistent on asking if you'll join for a pro war stance, you got guys saying the US is weak, you got guys kissing pootie poots hand....
CHILL OUT.
If an when SHTF, guess who has to go? not the 90 percent of YOU posters who sit here an argue among yourselves, but me and a few other posters who ARE active duty military, currently serving in BCT's.
Don't sit there an ask would you join for the front, seriously, who says that anymore? don't sit there an fight about how much blood was spilled, don't sit there an argue a countries combat ability, no matter how large or small, PEOPLE DIE.
Useless rhetoric if you ask me.
Lets hope for the best, but mark my words, if we have to go to war...pray for us human beings.
You guys will have your answers you all have been fighting and arguing for soon enough and when you get them, NO EXCUSES.

reply to post by Mamatus


*sigh* I support the need to keep our word as a nation, the same way I support the idea that if you promise someone something, you need to keep your word, even if that means something unpleasant for you.

This is why you need to be careful about when and how to whom you give your word, obviously.

reply

Again you are cherry picking things out of a statement that are already self explanatory, I worked alot at a place called the "jvb" with "blokes" from the uk (SAS) we all get good humor out of it when they say the location used to be run by the aussies. I guess they helped alot too. I do not think people understand quite what I am trying hard to say

reply to post by Arnie123


Good luck slaughtering people and get slaughtered. I'll await the result in my quite comfy chair.
Being armchair soldier is more interesting, we can make people do suicide. Too bad I'm unpaid.

I would like you to apologize Marine. We have used the SAS for wet work and specialized missions for YEARS. They have the most experience in these tasks. Our allies ARE neccessary for us to perform these ignorant police missions.If it was only to fight we really wouldn't need them,but when you occupy ,we aren't too good at that.Killing .destroying capturing ,that's what we do better than everyone else. It's fast and cold when we have a clear objective.

But I will say I am very thankful for your loyalty to my country's leaders,they appear to have been rogue for sometime and cannot be trusted.
But that doesn't mean your sacrifices mean nothing to me.

NullVoid
reply to post by Arnie123

 

Good luck slaughtering people and get slaughtered. I'll await the result in my quite comfy chair.
Being armchair soldier is more interesting, we can make people do suicide. Too bad I'm unpaid.

--
I will. Because like you said, being an armchair soldier IS more interesting...AND its all you'll know an ever do.
Trust me, "make people do suicide...", you'll never have that power or any control for that matter, an yes, YOU ARE UNPAID, I AM.
---
IMHO I don't think this will lead to WW3, but the end result will lead to deaths, regardless.