Time for a mass redistribution of wealth

xuenchen
reply to post by spiritualzombie

.........

I do believe excessive wealth is a mental illness / addiction, and that it should not be applauded.
.........

 

How would you propose that "a mental illness / addiction" be identified and associated with wealth accumulation?

Assuming these afflictions are of pathological/psychological/psychiatric origins, how would you eliminate this problem?

And, *IF* government bureaucracy would be part of the solution, how would you eliminate the same problem from government?

Well, I think this is worthy of round table discussion which was part of the point of this thread. Me personally, I think there is a very real addiction problem with money-- The mental illness comes into play when they prop themselves up, a Grandiose Sense of Self, Callousness/Lack of Empathy, having no regard for those under them.... I see sociopathic tendencies there.... So I think of greed as sort of a cross between a sociopath and addict.

I think classifying greed in such a way could encourage a more philanthropic society.

But what do you think?

spiritualzombie

Antigod

spiritualzombie

eriktheawful

spiritualzombie

beezzer
Crimes should be punishable by law. There are already laws that take care of that.

Now if you want to discuss how they are enforced, that's an entirely different topic.

What many here are espousing is making it criminal to have wealth.

Nobody is saying it's criminal to have wealth.

edit on 2-2-2014 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)

Actually, you indicated that it should be. That there should be laws introduced to that effect.

That it should be a mental illness to want to have more than you have, because it's greed.

You stated that pretty clearly in:

This post

This post

and then several posts after that (I stopped looking after post number 6)

It's pretty clear you think that there should be laws that keep anyone from becoming wealthy....and that those who so desire to be wealthy are suffering from a mental illness and should be treated as such.

You did make that quite clear in the very first page of this entire thread.

I do believe excessive wealth is a mental illness / addiction, and that it should not be applauded.

I never said wealth should be illegal. I did say society should be educated on the dangers of greed, and be able to identify it in the real world.

SO people should juct working when you think they have enough money?

I think there are other alternatives.

These kinds of headlines are steps in the right direction: "The man who gave away $7.5billion: Philanthropist who inspired Bill Gates and Warren Buffet wants all his money spent on good causes before he's dead"

And that's good for him, but you know what? Dirty Little Secret - It was his choice. He CHOSE to give his money away.

You don't want to let people choose or even advocate that they should choose. You just want to take it. You are every bit as greedy as the ones you hate.

I think there's a bit about this in the Bible. Didn't you learn about that in church?

reply to post by spiritualzombie


No, it wouldn't because the very last people to see they have a problem are the ones with it.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


Well I'm asking you how you would identify these things assuming you think they are a part of the problem.

You seem to think they are part of the problem.

How do you propose to identify and contain ?

I have no steadfast opinion yet for purposes of this thread.

bedtime, Night folks.

xuenchen
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

Well I'm asking you how you would identify these things assuming you think they are a part of the problem.

You seem to think they are part of the problem.

How do you propose to identify and contain ?

I have no steadfast opinion yet for purposes of this thread.

Well, it's very difficult, isn't it? To put a label on "what is" excessive greed... But we do have ways of determining addiction, so I would look a little to these methods. As far as mental illness, I think that again is a difficult thing to put in a box...

I look at descriptions of a sociopath and I see traits there that the morbidly greedy seem to possess.

Some might say greed is simply hording cash... I might even think that at times, but then there's also the kind of greed that dips its hand into government to give themselves an unfair advantage, or to control media outlets to get poor people to support their greed addiction through the use of misinformation.

This is what leads to the very top... way above 1% to the .00001% or more specifically, to the people who are using wealth to change laws and create new laws that only benefit the super wealthy, who use money and power to spread misinformation, or who engage in corrupt practices that create an economic situation where $7 trillion dollars is demanded by those who caused the problem-- and then they take a huge portion of that money for themselves. To me, this top, top tier is where you start.

People need to see that the country is still "We the people", not "We the super wealthy".

ketsuko

spiritualzombie

Antigod

spiritualzombie

eriktheawful

spiritualzombie

beezzer
Crimes should be punishable by law. There are already laws that take care of that.

Now if you want to discuss how they are enforced, that's an entirely different topic.

What many here are espousing is making it criminal to have wealth.

Nobody is saying it's criminal to have wealth.

edit on 2-2-2014 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)

Actually, you indicated that it should be. That there should be laws introduced to that effect.

That it should be a mental illness to want to have more than you have, because it's greed.

You stated that pretty clearly in:

This post

This post

and then several posts after that (I stopped looking after post number 6)

It's pretty clear you think that there should be laws that keep anyone from becoming wealthy....and that those who so desire to be wealthy are suffering from a mental illness and should be treated as such.

You did make that quite clear in the very first page of this entire thread.

I do believe excessive wealth is a mental illness / addiction, and that it should not be applauded.

I never said wealth should be illegal. I did say society should be educated on the dangers of greed, and be able to identify it in the real world.

SO people should juct working when you think they have enough money?

I think there are other alternatives.

These kinds of headlines are steps in the right direction: "The man who gave away $7.5billion: Philanthropist who inspired Bill Gates and Warren Buffet wants all his money spent on good causes before he's dead"

And that's good for him, but you know what? Dirty Little Secret - It was his choice. He CHOSE to give his money away.

You don't want to let people choose or even advocate that they should choose. You just want to take it. You are every bit as greedy as the ones you hate.

I think there's a bit about this in the Bible. Didn't you learn about that in church?

I don't want to force. I said education. Keep your billions, your islands, your yachts, your houses... But when you run for president, the kids are going to see that you suffer from greed and might not be the right candidate to represent "We the people".

reply to post by xuenchen


Here is another great first step: getmoneyout.com...

Basically get the money out of politics.

spiritualzombie
I don't want to force. I said education. Keep your billions, your islands, your yachts, your houses... But when you run for president, the kids are going to see that you suffer from greed and might not be the right candidate to represent "We the people".

And the very last line in your OP say's what?
How can they keep their billions and islands and everything else when you say "Time for a massive change. I vote for a mass redistribution of wealth."

You have jumped all over the place so is it about redistribution or education?

spiritualzombie
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Here is another great first step: getmoneyout.com...

Basically get the money out of politics.

edit on 2-2-2014 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)

But how does that present a method to identify and correct and prevent the problem?

How would you propose to eliminate the same problem in government that you say is present in wealth accumulation?

Who would make the "final" decisions?



Added;

How does getting money out of politics compare to wealth redistribution?

thesaneone

spiritualzombie
I don't want to force. I said education. Keep your billions, your islands, your yachts, your houses... But when you run for president, the kids are going to see that you suffer from greed and might not be the right candidate to represent "We the people".

And the very last line in your OP say's what?
How can they keep their billions and islands and everything else when you say "Time for a massive change. I vote for a mass redistribution of wealth."

You have jumped all over the place so is it about redistribution or education?

Both were mentioned in the OP. Society glorifies greed. Kids have grown so much over the generations. They're able to recognize hate, intolerance, addiction... Greed should also be educated. The dangers and examples of how greed has hurt people.

The redistribution I'm talking about is through legal means. Supporting legislation that helps the little guy, not supporting legislation that only benefits the super wealthy. Education will help grow a generations of people who strive to care about others and not be called dirty names like "Liberal" simply for believing in equality or siding with legislation that helps the needy.

The more extreme side of the redistribution- the most controversial side is when I talk about investigating those who use money to create laws that undercut the power of the people, or create an unfair advantage to the wealthy. People who knowingly participate in corrupt practices, bringing down the U.S. economy, and then demand $7 trillion dollars ransom to pay off their friends. There has been ZERO justice here. The message right now is, you can be too big to fail, too big to jail-- ABOVE THE LAW. This need to be corrected. I'm personally in favor of investigations, trials, and punishment.

Both were mentioned in the OP. Society glorifies greed. Kids have grown so much over the generations. They're able to recognize hate, intolerance, addiction... Greed should also be educated. The dangers and examples of how greed has hurt people.

Actually this is a massive supposition on your part. I would argue that our kids don't know how to recognize these things at all. Sometimes, these days tolerance masquerades as intolerance and hatred pretends to be love. Kids are taught how not to be bullies by bullying everyone else into conforming.

You want to end greed while being enormously greedy yourself. So, how do you intend to teach kids to not be greedy without actually teaching them greed? This is the massive problem most of us are having here.

The redistribution I'm talking about is through legal means. Supporting legislation that helps the little guy, not supporting legislation that only benefits the super wealthy. Education will help grow a generations of people who strive to care about others and not be called dirty names like "Liberal" simply for believing in equality or siding with legislation that helps the needy.

Just because something is made legal doesn't make it right or moral. It only makes it legal. There are plenty of places in the world where owning private property is illegal, but it is a basic inalienable right to have and be able to keep your property just like it's a basic and inalienable right to have your freedom and yet not so long ago it was legal to have slavery in this country, upheld by the SCOTUS. Therefore, I repeat, just making something legal does not make it moral.

The more extreme side of the redistribution- the most controversial side is when I talk about investigating those who use money to create laws that undercut the power of the people, or create an unfair advantage to the wealthy. People who knowingly participate in corrupt practices, bringing down the U.S. economy, and then demand $7 trillion dollars ransom to pay off their friends. There has been ZERO justice here. The message right now is, you can be too big to fail, too big to jail-- ABOVE THE LAW. This need to be corrected. I'm personally in favor of investigations, trials, and punishment.

And yet, you want the very government who created the unfair system in the first place to do this.

How is your head not exploding from the cognitive dissonance by now? You keep sidestepping this point, flat-out ignoring it.

And you also cannot get around the fact that once you open the door to removing property rights for some, you open the door to removing property rights for all, including yourself, and you are willing to hand this power to the very same government that you admit is a corrupt entity.

Do you not think about this very much?

reply to post by spiritualzombie


So this is about morals, how do you teach people morals?
What may seem right to one person may be seen as wrong by another, so who gets to choose?

thesaneone
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

So this is about morals, how do you teach people morals?
What may seem right to one person may be seen as wrong by another, so who gets to choose?

The one with the biggest stick.

beezzer

thesaneone
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

So this is about morals, how do you teach people morals?
What may seem right to one person may be seen as wrong by another, so who gets to choose?

The one with the biggest stick.

You apparently just have to buy the government.

reply to post by ketsuko


Your last point sounds like you believe the people in government are above the law, there is no way to investigate, no way to get justice. Does that invalidate what I'm saying, that there should be justice?

I'm not sidestepping anything. I'm taking everyone's accusations head-on. I have seen a lot of intentional re-wording of my posts and a lot of intentional misinterpretation of my views.

I've done my best to explain my position.

Discuss among yourselves.

If you believe some people have earned the right to be above the law, and that ultimately our government should be for sale, that's your view. Not one I agree with.

ketsuko

beezzer

thesaneone
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

So this is about morals, how do you teach people morals?
What may seem right to one person may be seen as wrong by another, so who gets to choose?

The one with the biggest stick.

You apparently just have to buy the government.

This is exactly the problem I'm talking about fixing.

thesaneone
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

So this is about morals, how do you teach people morals?
What may seem right to one person may be seen as wrong by another, so who gets to choose?

We teach morals all the time. Parents, teachers, spiritual leaders... Media is even used to teach about dangers of smoking, drinking, doing drugs... What would be wrong with specifically educating on the dangers of greed and the ill effects it can have on a society?

The stance against Bullying is an example of educating society on a problem, and gaining support for a collective movement. People identify bullies, they identify people who have been bullied, and the effects it has on people.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


Then forget the evil 1% and focus your energy on the corrupt government.

thesaneone
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

Then forget the evil 1% and focus your energy on the corrupt government.

Please stop re-wording me. Quote me anywhere that I said "evil 1%". Just stop.