Debunking Sitchin Debunkers

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Sitchin had without anything more than an education gleamed from a computer monitor.

I debunked Sitchin years ago at the ole twelfth planet cafe, with only a computer monitor and all his books, that was at the height of Sitchin popularity, in certain circles, I came on line a believer and started researching.

Now I am torn.

I still think he was on to something.

undo
reply to post by drivers1492

 

okay so who is the prophet talking to when he addresses the king of tyre?

was the king of tyre in eden?

Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.


Stones of fire, I found out recently the 12 stones in the breast plate of the high priest were called, you guessed it

"stones of fire."

Just thought I would throw that out there.

Why these semi precious gems?

What did they represent, besides the twelve tribes.

I often thought the stones represented something celestial.

Or was it about mining?

That rings a familiar bell too



hermeneutics.stackexchange.com...

Sitchin may be part of the NWO attempt to destroy the worlds religions and replace them with a NWO created substitute.
The jury of time will pronounce the verdict, but at its own liesure............
With all the BS in the controversy i no longer care to research the subject.

Stormdancer777
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Sitchin had without anything more than an education gleamed from a computer monitor.

I debunked Sitchin years ago at the ole twelfth planet cafe, with only a computer monitor and all his books, that was at the height of Sitchin popularity, in certain circles, I came on line a believer and started researching.

Now I am torn.

I still think he was on to something.

can you share some of your debunking work?

back on the topic of the covering cherub verse in ezekiel

tabarets and pipes is a reference to musical/sound instruments of some kind. this leads, rather obtusely, to the suggestion that sound was employed for some benefit in the construction of monolithic buildings. for example, sound fields can generate anti-gravity waves to such a degree that it lessens the weight (gravity) of the object being impacted by the sound. if a building can benefit, could not a moving vehicle also benefit from it?

however, doesn't it sound like a covering cherub in the reference is more like a planetary body of some kind? well let's skim over to isaiah's reference

Isaiah 14: 11 and 12

Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations

----

now there he is fallen from the sky or heaven. since many claim venus is the planet of lucifer, is there any astronomy reference to venus dropping chunks of itself unto the earth? something incredibly fishy went on back then

noise is a constant form of derision in the storyline of En.lil, which is then conversely protected by En.ki. the people made too much noise or there was too much noise in the human genome so En.lil ordered the people of the earth be destroyed by a mammoth flood.
at the tower of babel languages became chaotic noise

reply to post by undo


Not much anymore, basically what I did was look though the translations of ancient text online that Sitchin was writing about in his books.

One that stood out in my mind was the boat of heaven and this translatiom

A hymn to Inanna/Ishtar and her journeys in the Boat of Heaven clearly indicates that the mu was the vehicle in which the gods roamed the skies far and high:

Lady of Heaven:
She puts on the Garment of Heaven;
She valiantly ascends towards Heaven.
Over all the peopled lands
she flies in her MU.
Lady, who in her MU
to the heights of Heaven joyfully wings. .
Over all the resting places
she flies in her MU.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

This section of Wolkstein’s translation, with its obvious and abundant sexual metaphors makes for erotic reading as we find Inanna declaring;
www.thewica.co.uk...


But this one still has me interested.
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

lady Adda-guppi’, mother
of Nabium-na’id, king of Babylon,

It speaks of the praises of Nabonidus’ mother, Adda-Gruppi for the gods, line 1--27

I (am) the lady Adda-Gruppi’, mother of Nabium-na’id king of Babylon votaress of the gods Sin, Ningal, Nusku, and Sadarnunna, my deities; who, from my childhood have sought after their godheads. Whereas in the 16th year of Nabopolassar, king of Babylon, Sin, king of the gods, with his city and his temple was angry and went up to heaven-the city and the people that (were) in it went to ruin. (Now) forasmuch as the shrines of Sin, Ningal, Nusku and Sadarnunna I sought after and was worshipper of their godhead (and) that I laid hold on the hem of the robe of Sin, king of the gods, night and daytime. I had ever in mind his great godhead-daily, without ceaSing, of Sin, Samas, Istar, and Adda, so long as I am alive I (am) their votaress (both) in heaven and earth. My blesSings, the goodly things which they gave me, I (too) by day, night , month, and year, gave (back) to them. I laid hold on the hem of the robe of Sin, king of the gods, night and daytime my two eyes were with him, in prayer and humility of face was I bowed before them (and) thus (I prayed), ‘May thy return to thy city be (secured) to me that the people, the black-headed, may worship thy great godhead.’ For calming the heart of my god and my goddess, ad dress of fine wool, jewels, silver, gold, a new shift, perfumes, sweet oil, I applied not to my body, (but in) a torn shift I went clothed, my goings-out were noiseless, I proclaimed their praises: the glory of my city and of my goddess was (ever set in my heart, I kept watch upon them anything good of mine I did not omit, but carried it (ever) before them. [19]

They were also used to empower kings for example in column 2,

"When in my dream his two hands had been laid on, Sin, king of the gods, spoke to me thus, "with thee I will put into the hands of Nabuna;id thy son, the return of the gods and the habitation of Harran. He shall . . ." [20]

Similar claims are made by Nabonidus himself. In his own testimony he acknowledges his own non-heridetary rights to the throne and compensates for this by calling out that it was the god Sin who choose him. It all seems very perfect for his taking of the throne. A god who is separate from the priesthood of Marduk endorses him, in turn Nabonidus endorses that god, the moon god-Sin as the god of gods. The inscription of this reads

"The operation of Sin, greatest of the gods and goddesses, nobody knows it, Since from distant days it came not down to the land, (wherefore) the people of the land saw it (indeed), but wrote it not on a tablet and set it not (down) for days to come. Sin, lord of the gods and goddesses, dwellers of the heavens, (thou art he) who, in front of Nabonidus king of Babylon, camest from the heavens. I (am) Nabonidus, who have not the honour of (being a) somebody, and kingship is not within me, (but) the gods and goddesses prayed for me, and Sin to the kingship called me. In the night season he caused me to behold a dream (saying) thus . . ."(column 1:1-12) [21]

He further tells of his reverence toward his god, Sin. The reading is reminiscent of a Psalm.

". . . in whose hands all of every function of heaven is held, Enlil of the gods, king of kings, lord of lords, upon whose command they go not back and his word is not spoken twice, with the fear of whose great godhead heavens and earth are filled like his countenance heavens and earth are outspread; without thee who does anything?" (column 2:19-26) [22]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


yet more evidence that En.lil, who is occasionally called Jehovah in the old testament, and who is later called Allah by muslims,
and who the vatican also surreptiously (by deceit) worship, the god of Babylon. not the god of gods, but the owner of planet
Earth, prince of the Air.

the sumerian trinity godhead -- Anu, Enlil and Enki, is most likely a deceit as well, as Enlil more correctly fits the monicker of the accuser. It's closer to cite it as Anu and Enki, since the third component is the Spirit given to mankind as a result of Enki's actions not as a result of Enlil's actions as he was always trying to wipe out human beings, not offer them comfort. It was Enki who saved humans from Enlil. It was Enki who broke up Enlil's one world order. and, if my theory is correct, it was also Enki who stopped the state sanctioned religious tradition of the sacrificing of human beings. Enki ended the blood sacrifice in one fell swoop in the new testament. Notice after Jesus , the tradition of sacrificing babies to Mollech, went underground as did all the other similar blood sacrifice rituals.

and that is because Enki created humans and defended humans. in the new testament, you see him STILL defending humans, from Enlil. So maybe we have come upon the answer as to the planetary body involved, since Enlil was the moon god.

on the subject of planets making sound

here is jupiter. if you listen to it with headphones on, you can hear all kinds of stuff in it, particularly
towards the end of it. there's almost like a choir singing in it, and all it really is is the magnetics of the planet
and various other bits of sound related to the magnetic field



and here is a meditative piece in which you can hear an underlying sound saying Hal-aaa-you-ahhh (hallelujah). almost like a machine, saying it over and over again. this was also the description of a specific type of angel surrounding the throne of god, who made the same sound repeatedly. perhaps one of the planets or planetary bodies vibrates at this frequency and we can't hear it because it's a magnetic field rather than an auditory sound.

reply to post by undo



She was fascinating, she was real not a myth and when she died it is said kings came from all over the known world to morn her passing.

Thats kinda where i left off, but then started trying to connect the dots with similar stories and the similarities between the gods and goddesses, now I am just tired, lol

reply to post by undo


Just found this today,

Experts set to tune in to sound effects of archaeological sites in Malta

Researchers are increasingly taking note of particular sound effects that are created in some of the world’s earliest buildings, including Malta’s megalithic temples.

As a result, experts from across the globe will gather in Malta, where they have been granted special access to test the Hypogeum’s acoustic behaviour with a vocalist in the so-called Oracle Chamber.

“This...

Earlier I was able to read the whole thing now not, but your post reminded me of this.
www.otsf.org...
www.otsf.org...

reply to post by undo

undo - thank you for the thread and the time and effort you've put into attempting to discern the proverbial needle/s in the haystack on this topic.
In contrast to the intellectuals - I do not count Sitchin to have been a charlatan. I think he believed in what he found/interpreted... Not unlike any and all others that believe they are the lucky (chosen/special) ones to have uncovered various "truths".
I have read, studied and/or considered the "Sitchin Is Wrong" website... Have engaged in conversation with said website's author...and found more wanting in said "debunkings" than I did in Sitchin's works.
I have seen no-one that references the "Sitchin Is Wrong" website, as their claim for Sitchin-being-debunked, do any more than parrot what said website's author alleged - being... "Scholars know!...and Sitchin chose not to interpret as the scholars I have based my career aligning with, have". (and, of course - the emphasis is always on Scholars)
Assuming that someone is disingenuous...because they believe other than you believe...writes EVERYONE-ELSE in the world OFF. 'Cause -- - - - - - - - No-One-Else believes exactly as you do.
If Sitchin's work was flawed - it would have been flawed (imo) for the same reason that every other WORK is flawed...being...there was a motivation that started the work. Everyone begins with a motivation. If not - they...don't...work!
His was - "Hey - I'm of a Jewish lineage... The world is trying to say that everything in the Old Testament (!) is fiction/myth... I'm going to see if I can prove/find that it is not...".
I think his quest took him somewhere he didn't expect to go... But...I likewise believe, he was sold on...where it took him.
May he R.I.P.

reply to post by Harte

There was a time, Undo, when I thought I could at the least rely on you to not fabricate an untruth merely to support your idea of the past. Apparently, that time is also in the past.

sorry for late response. i didn't see your post on previous page.

IF I was attempting to lie, i would not have admitted that he didn't say that directly, but indirectly in support of Chris White's statements in the same video. Also, I didn't want to go dig up our other conversation (in the dumb old lady vs. ancient aliens debunked thread) where you brought Heiser's name into the discussion of the meaning of Anunna, because you thought his scholarship was sufficient to lay the case to rest. At that point I was wondering if his scholarship was sufficient for you on that subject, what about his position that the bible is not a myth? You are attacking me for believing many of the same things Mr. Heiser does, such as the validity of the bible and other ancient texts. I bet if you asked him about the book of enoch, he'd say that it was a good text with plenty of corroborating evidence, although not canon because of some oddities. For example, the nephilim created from the union of the Watchers and human women, were called giants that were an outrageous size. We're talking, so big, it's unlikely their hearts would've been able to pump blood to all their limbs. Either someone mistranslated it or someone deliberately messed it up cause their height was absolutely ginormous.

Stormdancer777
reply to post by undo

 

She was fascinating, she was real not a myth and when she died it is said kings came from all over the known world to morn her passing.

Thats kinda where i left off, but then started trying to connect the dots with similar stories and the similarities between the gods and goddesses, now I am just tired, lol

correct me if i'm wrong but are you saying the "she" in question was INANA?

reply to post by WanDash


that's true, my motivation for my research started many years ago, and had nothing to do with ancient aliens or ancient tech at the time. i was researching the bottomless pit reference in revelation 9 , which was originally called the abyssos (greek). this word's etymology went all the way back to the abzu of Enki. that's when i bought sitchin's books and read them. however, being a bit disgruntled with some of his work regarding the identity of enki and enlil, it took me several years to unravel what it all meant to me as a person who believes the bible is telling legitimate history, just somewhere along the line, enlil was squished in the text next to enki and called the same name.

now that would still work if the reference to elohim was still used but it split off into the jehovah name and the yahweh name. sitchin thought enki was called yahweh exclusively and enlil called jehovah exclusively. that was easily proven wrong. yahweh and jehovah are the same word. however, there's evidence that enki was jehovah from the beginning, and somewhere in the process of time, enlil usurped the title and turned him into the bad guy. well that is, till the new testament, where enki took it back again. at least, that's my theory.

anyway, that's when i started noticing high tech in the texts and went off on my own tangent that the abyssos, was the abyss, was the abzu, or more specifically, the abzu was in the abyss and had become synonmous. and the abzu was a gated interdimensional portal. so yeah, i sympathize with him cause once you find something wild like that, and evidence starts to accumulate, soon you are finding reasons to believe it, in every nook and cranny. and some people think you're reading the wrong book or something because they don't see that in the text till you explain the entire process. the old texts don't give up their secrets easily.

stormdancer777

i am hoping you're going to answer that question as i have a bit of info on inana you might find interesting.

undo
reply to post by WanDash

 

...anyway, that's when i started noticing high tech in the texts and went off on my own tangent that the abyssos, was the abyss, was the abzu, or more specifically, the abzu was in the abyss and had become synonmous. and the abzu was a gated interdimensional portal. so yeah, i sympathize with him cause once you find something wild like that, and evidence starts to accumulate, soon you are finding reasons to believe it, in every nook and cranny. and some people think you're reading the wrong book or something because they don't see that in the text till you explain the entire process. the old texts don't give up their secrets easily.
...

I am interested in how you came to suspect that the abzu was a 'gated interdimensional portal'.
I like your progression from abyssos to abyss to abzu.
In all your meanderings, do you think you have zeroed-in on "where" the abzu would be located?

reply to post by WanDash


well maybe not interdimensional, that's just one of my guesses. it could very easily be a wormhole generator for all i know.
whatever it is, it's a cosmic gateway. the assyriologists even refer to it as cosmic water lol the place identified as eridu is not eridu. eridu was described as a flying, floating, glowing, roaring, submersible, temple with a door that can "snatch a man" that was silver on the inside, gold on the outside, with an interior that was a "tangled thread beyond understanding."
(direct quote from a sumerian-akkadian text i forget the name of off the top of my head but if you're interested i'll look it up)

as far as where it is, well there was more than one. one was at eridu but was a small one, one was on the bottom of the persian gulf and it was big enough to allow the passage of massive objects the size of something like an aircraft carrier. one was at nibru, enlil's city further up the euphrates from eridu. one was at babel and had been buried by the black sea flood, and my theory was that when babel was destroyed the gate was reburied. then nimrod snagged the one that had been buried at nibru and took it to abdyos egypt with him and his entourage, built the osirieon to house it and then he was killed (long story) and the trail disappears right there.

when seti the first built his monument at abydos, he found the osirieon there and connected it to his own monument via an underground passage. i have no idea if he found the nibru gate, but the potential exists, as he had the book of gates penned for the first time and had it engraved into his alabaster sarcophagus. i think he and his priests were trying to figure out what it was and how it worked. his burial tomb in the valley of the kings had an additional passageway that went down below the sacrophagus room but had been hidden behind a false door. it wasn't until recently that the passage way was throughly excavated.. it's a very odd story.

my theory is there were 7 very large ones on the bottom of 7 major bodies of water, but there's even scanter evidence of that.

here's a video of the inside of seti's tomb in the valley of the kings, with hawass explaining about their further excavation of the tunnel below the sarcophagus.

undo
…maybe not interdimensional…whatever it is, it's a cosmic gateway. the assyriologists even refer to it as cosmic water lol the place identified as eridu is not eridu. eridu was described as a flying, floating, glowing, roaring, submersible, temple with a door that can "snatch a man" that was silver on the inside, gold on the outside, with an interior that was a "tangled thread beyond understanding."
(direct quote from a sumerian-akkadian text i forget the name of off the top of my head but if you're interested i'll look it up)

You don’t have to look it up… I am intrigued, though.

In your studies, have you given much time or consideration to the Emerald Tablets of Thoth?
Seems that if there is any veracity to them, some of the underground passages and/or chambers…somewhere…would be exceptionally interesting to glimpse.

reply to post by WanDash


well i listened to a full reading of it. i have some serious concerns about it, starting with the fact it just came out in the ..was it 1940s? it also sounds like re-worded new testament passages, particularly the words of jesus, similar to how nostradamus' quatrains sounded with some added astrological references.

it's also a bit odd that it's written in king james parlance, with thees and thous and other word usage from the king james version of the bible. why choose a language venacular for the passages that hasn't been in written usage, since the time king james, a very specific point in earth's more recent history, and then claim the tablets are ancient? why not in say, hieratic, greek or an aramaic language or translated into more modern day venacular. very odd.