Happening now and I never even realised

reply to post by Astyanax

Considering the bigger picture, the current paradigm of advertising-driven consumer culture is unsustainable anyway. In the end, we'll just have to learn to consume less. Better get used to it now. The Earth's resources aren't infinite, you know.

Ya I know Asty, kinda gets you down when you conserve everything
you possibly can and their still come'n at ya with their hand out.

reply to post by soficrow


I remember the 70s also. You were entitled by law to a wage packet at the end f the week and most were paid in the hand with wage slip,

The banks then refuse overdraft facilities to Businesses unless they had employees wages paid into the bank.

I went from being paid in my hand to having to make a trip to the bank to get my wages, and many times they were not in when they should have been and you had no choice but to buy your shopping using the checkbook they gave you, somehow the cheque cleared before the wages were in so I got charged and overdraft fee pf £24.

They stole £24 from me, when I had my wages in my hand I had them and would pay for my shopping.

They are crooks

www.activistpost.com...

California security company Proofpoint has said that for the first time hackers have used smart appliances to launch a cyber attack.

The ‘botnet’ attack took place over a two-week period from December 23rd according to the company.

Hackers penetrated home-networking routers and connected to media centers, television and in once case a refrigerator to create a platform capable of delivering spam or phishing emails.

I have always heard the smart meters and smart appliances were made to work together... Might be the first case (?) which proves of their communication.

reply to post by pavmas


Ok so you say you got inventor of the year is this UK wide???

So if you are a inventor you would know they can not tell the difference between your fridge or phone charging.
my fridge is not that smart to say hey I am a fridge, phone chargers aren't that smart to say hey I am a phone charger.

Split open your phone charger you will find a capacitor, resister and a voltage regulator.

nothing is there that will send out a wireless signal or wired signal.



You are meant to be inventor of the year, think think think...

pavmas
reply to post by amraks

 

but reports I have been reading say that they will turn off your fridge de froster in peak hours, that is available now online (please do a search)

My fridge has a compressor, condenser, condenser motor and a temperature control circuit.


Thats as about as smart as my fridge will be.

What the hell is a "fridge de froster" as far as I am concerned you're fridge needs to be turned off to defrost, seems you are throwing words out there with out understanding them.

I will not do a search as you are meant to back what you say with sources.

pavmas
reply to post by ChesterJohn

 

As I said I dont know to much about it but have done some research.

It appears right now that smart meters cant determine a fridge from a n Iron, but they can say what appliance is using the amount of energy, when you turn it on it will say that this is costing 97p

So if they can tell how much an item is costing to run then its not far fetched to assume they could turn it off with wirless wifi.

I can turn my printer off from here and its in another room by wi fi, I can get it to print etc etc it will report to me here when it is short of ink.

That is 5 years old.

So its fair to assume that modern smart meters can do this.

But we have already established that on there own this might not be possible.

Thats why each appliance is to be chipped, all appliances withing the EU are to be chipped, you will no longer be able to buy a non chipped appliance.

The chip and smart meter will be able to communicate just as my laptop does with my printer.
Thats as much as I have been able to find out,

but the energy companies have had to pay out £12.1 billion in the uk and they will want that back.

( i wonder who from)

Have you allowed your smart meter to connect with your wifi?

check available wifi's in your area not one of them are from your power company?

And the range is very limited.

again they do not know and if you want wifi appliances go for it but they cannot be shut off by your power company using your wifi unless you allow them to access your wifi connection or you give them permission to access your appliances with their own wifi connection. Simple solution turnoff wifi connection at the appliance.

pavmas
reply to post by Astyanax

 

Well I don't know what part is bull and what is not, I just posted something I was told and never knew anything about smart meter.

I had only read that when your milk runs out your fridge will order some more, and I thought that was tied in with smart meters.

But after researching, each appliance is going to be chipped and 3 years from now you wont be able to buy an appliance thats not chipped.

by 2020 every house in the uk will have a smart meter, but it must be sooner because if its not done by 2019 the E.U will fine energy companies.

So 6 years from now all this will be in place and the energy companies billions out of pocket for installing smart meters.

But its for our benefit and its to reduce our bills.

Anyone really believe that this is for our benefit.

How does a fridge know what is milk and what is eggs unless there is a device in them to tell them it is milk or eggs? how can it differentiate ground beef from pork chops? Corn from lettuce? oranges from apples?

Don't fall for the lie unless you have chips in your food.

No such animal exists don't be misled.

pavmas
reply to post by amraks

 

All I can say is that was what I was told, I was hoping someone would come on who has looked into this and say yes thats what is going to happen this, that, but not that.

I said the Xbox, but reports I have been reading say that they will turn off your fridge de froster in peak hours, that is available now online (please do a search)

Now if they can mess with your fridge, they could mess with your heating etc.

What I have read is a lot worse than what I was told, they are not going to just bill you extra for appliances the deem luxury, they are going to turn them off to save them having to start up addional turbines to save them money

They might say its not to cold in that area we will cut the heating off in that area. they will decide what appliances we will need on and off, when and when not, I was not told this, and this is far worse than what I was told.

And the best of it is, its all online for anyone to find, its going to happen, chips in appliances and smart meters installed.

I never heard of any of this a week ago, its all news to me and I have to say Im amazed at what a search is throwing up.

Supply the links.

the smart meter would have to turn off one breaker in your home and it cannot do that yet. the best it could do is shut off power to the whole house.

pavmas
reply to post by soficrow

 

I remember the 70s also. You were entitled by law to a wage packet at the end f the week and most were paid in the hand with wage slip,

The banks then refuse overdraft facilities to Businesses unless they had employees wages paid into the bank.

I went from being paid in my hand to having to make a trip to the bank to get my wages, and many times they were not in when they should have been and you had no choice but to buy your shopping using the checkbook they gave you, somehow the cheque cleared before the wages were in so I got charged and overdraft fee pf £24.

They stole £24 from me, when I had my wages in my hand I had them and would pay for my shopping.

They are crooks

Thats very true. I remember getting paid in cash too.... was easier back then, now we have no choice but to declare everything we earn!

I still prefer paying for everything in cash instead of using cards unless i'm buying something huge!

reply to post by randyvs

Ya I know Asty, kinda gets you down when you conserve everything you possibly can and their still come'n at ya with their hand out.

Sure. It's an indication of how serious things really are, especially in your part of the world. The West has been living on credit — in terms of natural resources, foreign human capital and, of course, good old financial debt — for two centuries now. The bills are falling due.

ChesterJohn
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

so prove that the Electric company can identify each appliance in your home by asking them to give you and itemized bill of consumption that list each appliance by name and usage.

An itemised bill is not needed. Only a little understanding of the basics of electricity.
Switch on one of the hobs on your electric cooker. This is a resistive device and will draw a fairly constant but quite high amount of current. To control its temperature the bimetalic switch will switch the power ON or OFF at regular intervals.
On a graph it would look similar to this.

ChesterJohn
The meter cannot tell the difference between my electric stove and my old floor strip heater and both are rated the same and use the same amount when turned on or there location in the house or on my fuse box.

1. Your fuse box has nothing to do with this, though you ought to upgrade to trip devices!
2. YOU brought location into this not me. It has no part in this conversation.
3. You have chosen two items that YOU say use the same amount of power. That may be so but the way they use the power would identify two seperate devices.
For example..

ChesterJohn it also cannot tell the difference between my smoke alarm and my cell phone charger both use 5v. or my printer and my laptop both of them use 19v

Let me remind you of what you said to me... "don't be so naive."
The power company nor the meter even care about the voltage of you appliances! Power consumption is measured as Voltage * Current = watts.
They already know the voltage they supply to your home, they just need to know the amount of current drawn to know how much power you are using!
What you have quoted is the output voltage of those two supplies, it is completely irrelevant! However the phone and laptop both use switched mode supplies, and both draw very different amounts of power. Because of the method they use to control their output, and because of the power drawn, they would be identifiable as chargers because both have a slowly decreasing draw that drops to almost zero over a short time.

Please dont call people "naive" when you clearly have no idea about the subject.

reply to post by amraks


Ok forget about smart meters and chips and lets look at the old system.

Electric companies can tell when a kettle in on such as an advert in a tv program the have a surge so they know everyone is making tea.

Electric heaters use 3k

lets say a power unit uses 1K

now any meter that has wi fi can send a signal back, so we will install a smart meter.

Now the smart meter might not know its an electric heater but the Power Company will.

Because they will have a list 1/ 3k
2/ 500kw

etc they can determine that 1/ is using 3K a simple computer program will say this is an eletric heater, maybe 125 KW is a fridge 30 kw a tv.
So just by your usage they could determine what appliance you are using.

I have a 5 year old laptop, I plug my phone in by usb, it I dentifies the phone and downloads the program to run it.

So with a smart meter and each new appliance to have a smart chip commonsense tells you that the chips will be more advanced than my 5 year old computer.

Now a smart meter with wifi is no different than a laptop and the chips in the appliances are no different than the one in my wifi printer.

Now I can connect with my printer, and give it all sorts of commands.

You don't believe that with the latest tech installed in homes by power companies wont do the same.

In my house which is wifi, my laptop picks up my PS3, my PS3 picks up my laptop by name and can show me files, both pick up my wifes smart tv, the printer picks up the ps3, the smart tv picks up the phone the printer the ps3 and the laptop.

So how would it be impossible for a utility company to install a smart meter which is just a small computer, using wirless tech pick up the chips in the appliances.

I will go further, if they pick up all my appliances then they can pick up my laptop and just as my ps3 does it will be able to read all my files, it will be able to read what on my ps3 just like my laptop can.
Now none us thought of that did we.

I just thought about it now, if I can do it with 5 year old tech, then they can do the same.

They are putting a computer in your home just like my laptop, every appliance will have a chip just like my ps3.

So thats how they will no its a fridge or a phone, and not only that they might be able read all the info on your phone just as my laptop does with my ps3.

reply to post by ChesterJohn


Regarding what does a fridge know what an egg is and milk, well I don't know Im just saying thats what I read smart meter were for a few years back.
But you asked for an inventors viewpoint.

So lets say that the fridge has a chip to talk to the smart meter.

In the fridge you will have sections for milk eggs cheese, in the milk section when you put the milk in it has electronic pads
just like in a ps3 pad you press the button it kicks a ball or puts strength on a circle for throwing darts etc.

A simple pad built in like that is pressed down when 2 ltrs of milk is put in, when the milk has 1/4 left it gives a quarter reading, same with the eggs, my fridge has a section for placing 6 eggs, so say the chip sends back 0 0 0 0 25g 25g for each egg section then the supermarket using wifi will know I have only 2 eggs.

Im not into electronics but presssure pads that weigh a standard item seems the easiest way, instuctions will come with the fridge that you must use 2l cartons of milk etc for the reordering to work correctly, 400g cheese blocks etc and then the same is re ordered when low.

This is not future technology this could be done now using a persons own wifi with a chip modified on a fridge.

Whether anyone will use that I don't know but the investment will come from Supermarkets, but I would assume that the chip in the appliance will be multi functional allowing the supermarket to gather the data it requires and sent it through your wifi and the data for running the fridge to be sent to the smart meter, or the info can be picked up by both and the supermarket will know what appliances you have in your house and try to sell you ones you dont, and the meter company might know what food you are ordering and sell your info to a rival************************************************************************************************

What we need is someone who has a smart meter. to buy one of these appliances with a chip in then by using his laptop, se exactly what info this smart meter is gathering, especially if its gathering laptop info.

reply to post by ChesterJohn


No John thats no the case with circuit breakers. what they are reporting is that they will turn off certain past of a fridge frezzer like the automatic defroster.
Do some searching you will be amazed what I found in a few days.

I thought when I told of the conversation I had with this guy that this was news because I never heard of it before, but its all over the internet, things you dont think are true you will find they are.

The investment in this tech is staggering and thr cant say its to reduce bills and show you what is using what.

I dont need this, I just look at my bills to see that I have to turn off the heating when in bed or when the house is empty, who leaves landing lights on now adays, I bet everyone turns of lights in a room not been used.

So i dont buy that this major investment that only tells you what you are burning is the full story, I think its a cover story

pavmas
I just thought about it now, if I can do it with 5 year old tech, then they can do the same.

They are putting a computer in your home just like my laptop, every appliance will have a chip just like my ps3.

So thats how they will no its a fridge or a phone, and not only that they might be able read all the info on your phone just as my laptop does with my ps3.

If you get "smart" appliances and grant them access, they can do it without installing a smart meter in every home.

Better stock up on tinfoil.

watch this at the 38 min mark they have hacked smart meters (this was on today on uk column)

reply to post by VoidHawk


Sorry I can make graphics too but it doesn't prove any company has that capability.

Whoops now we can see the BS.

pavmas
reply to post by ChesterJohn

 

No John thats no the case with circuit breakers. what they are reporting is that they will turn off certain past of a fridge frezzer like the automatic defroster.
Do some searching you will be amazed what I found in a few days.

I thought when I told of the conversation I had with this guy that this was news because I never heard of it before, but its all over the internet, things you dont think are true you will find they are.

The investment in this tech is staggering and thr cant say its to reduce bills and show you what is using what.

I dont need this, I just look at my bills to see that I have to turn off the heating when in bed or when the house is empty, who leaves landing lights on now adays, I bet everyone turns of lights in a room not been used.

So i dont buy that this major investment that only tells you what you are burning is the full story, I think its a cover story

Reprocess old refers no need to get involved

The can't do it with my old 1990 model refer.

Soon you will be telling us we need smart food so the refer can order it for you

reply to post by pavmas

I´m not the first one to try to explain to you that the smart meter has nothing to do how a smart fridge orders the ingredients (over WAN (aka internet), surprise surprise). But maybe you get it this time.

What the smart meter does is this:

It measures the voltage and ampere levels each at a time at a very fast rate (because you can´t measure voltage and ampere at the same time without screwing one value a bit). So they log the consumption over a period of time (24/7). Some power companies overlay a signal on top of the 50/60 Hz at around 10pm and 6am to tell the meter that now, energy is cheaper, thus the meter does now count the energy on a different counter so you can differ between the cheap time and the normal time. This is common and works with analog meters too.

Also, the smart meter really can differ between some appliances, like described by voidhawk before.
As a electronics engineer and software developer it would not be that hard to write a tool that analyses the power consumption and over time could seperate different devices, although mostly not knowing what it is but link the program to a database with sample values and it will be very accurate over time to tell what you are running at the moment. Also, like void hawk said, every appliance generates a little noise and

reply to post by ChesterJohn

with the smart meters here that run unix kernel, they have the abilities for sure. The behavior of a simple light bulb (inductive current) and the behavior of a switched power supply (capacitive) like your personal computer uses is vastly different in terms of load. But that would really blow the topic here.

verschickter
reply to post by pavmas

 

I´m not the first one to try to explain to you that the smart meter has nothing to do how a smart fridge orders the ingredients (over WAN (aka internet), surprise surprise). But maybe you get it this time.

What the smart meter does is this:

It measures the voltage and ampere levels each at a time at a very fast rate (because you can´t measure voltage and ampere at the same time without screwing one value a bit). So they log the consumption over a period of time (24/7). Some power companies overlay a signal on top of the 50/60 Hz at around 10pm and 6am to tell the meter that now, energy is cheaper, thus the meter does now count the energy on a different counter so you can differ between the cheap time and the normal time. This is common and works with analog meters too.

Also, the smart meter really can differ between some appliances, like described by voidhawk before.
As a electronics engineer and software developer it would not be that hard to write a tool that analyses the power consumption and over time could seperate different devices, although mostly not knowing what it is but link the program to a database with sample values and it will be very accurate over time to tell what you are running at the moment. Also, like void hawk said, every appliance generates a little noise and

reply to post by ChesterJohn

 

with the smart meters here that run unix kernel, they have the abilities for sure. The behavior of a simple light bulb (inductive current) and the behavior of a switched power supply (capacitive) like your personal computer uses is vastly different in terms of load. But that would really blow the topic here.

edit on 22-1-2014 by verschickter because: (no reason given)

I thought the new florescent light bulbs were capacitive?

Maybe they could narrow down the field but to give the smart meter the intelligence to pick out which circuit breaker it is on in your breaker box to shut it off that is a bit hard to swallow.