'Stuck in our own experiment': Leader of trapped team insists polar ice is melting

pasiphae
i love how you start off by calling people idiots. there are plenty of very intelligent members on ATS that are not global warming deniers.

You like that huh ? I can finish with idiot too.

FlySolo
reply to post by 13th Zodiac

 

A Danish-owned coal-laden cargo ship has sailed through the Northwest Passage for the first time and into the history books as the second bulk carrier to navigate the Arctic route.

So please, remember to recycle

For the first time, yet it was the second?
And made history for being the second?
Now I understand the minds of global warming supporters. Wait, no I don't.

Oh yes, it's hilarious when people are in life threatening situations.
Psychopaths.

stumason

13th Zodiac
www.foxnews.com...

My title and the article is self explanatry. Talk about denial. Even Another junk scientist ,Al Gore said the Artic would be Ice free by 2013 lol. Still no polar bears begging for asylum in Australia.

Hmm, ironic you call them idiots, then talk about the Arctic... That ship is stuck in the Antartic..

As for the Arctic being "ice free", how do you explain the opening of the Northwest Passage?

I was talking about two types of global warming idiot's. So I guess that makes you the third.

MadMax9
reply to post by 13th Zodiac

 

How come people like me could see through El Gores comments way back when he started but it takes till now for people to question it? Aren't we supposed to be more intelligent these days? Makes me wonder.

I think the average IQ is like 100. So half the people you meet have IQ's under 100. Scary, I know.

This sounds pretty scary to me---no matter where they put their faith---let's send positive energies and hope for the best outcome.
While I don't completely discount karma, I tend to think if this expedition is like a few I've worked with, it is simply a result of poor planning on the part of some academics. Off the top of my head I can recall three times when emergency services had to be called due to the total ignorance/arrogance of an academic "in charge" of an expedition. Let's hope they've all learned something.

LaElvis
The Earth went through periods of extreme cold and extreme heat, at these catastrophic times, the sea level rose and killed many plants and animals. THEN, they were buried and compressed to make Petroleum products. It was these mass extinctions and sudden shifts in water depths that produced the silt and then the shale to trap the dead organic material. I work in the oilfield so I'm very familiar with how Petroleum was formed.

Now you're just making stuff up - the vast majority of Oil deposits are the result of sedimentation over long periods of time, including Shale. The fact you work in an Oilfield has clearly not made you an expert on it's formation - extraction perhaps, but that's something else entirely and also explains your position, vested interests...

That isn't to say that the Earth hasn't gone through periods or warming and cooling, this much is accepted fact - but to claim that Oil is the result of mass extinction events is just daft.

LaElvis
Yes in the (periods) of warming the other planets warm too....even thought the measuring is skewed because of various orbits and lack of real instrumentation. The Sun as you know, goes through cycles.

My question was more of a rhetorical one in the hope of having you provide some evidence. Clearly, I hoped for too much....

LaElvis
I am just tired of the Al Gore types and Carbon tax people who want to control cattle flatulence...to a certain extent more CO2 is beneficial to plant life. We are a long ways from any tipping point where it is detrimental.

Indeed, higher CO2 would mean a good time for plants and we wouldn't even notice it as human beings - we can tolerate relatively high concentrations of CO2 ourselves anyway. But that isn't the problem - it's the greenhouse effect from the gas that is the issue.

LaElvis
I personally believe man is in the last Generation before Jesus comes back to fight off what Obama and his puppeteers have started!!! But that has nothing to do with this thread...It is a personal thing, so NO attacks please.

I am not going to attack you for that, I am just going to groan, loudly...

Groooooooaaaaan.......

jrod
Few people realize that before the rise of plant/algae life on ancient Earth, the atmosphere was rich in CO2 and there was almost no O2

There's a sweeping generalisation if ever there was one... I think "most people" who paid attention at school do know this - certainly we were taught it when I was a lad. After all, it is precisely down to the abundance of CO2 that plants evolved to utilise it!

Seeing as you brought it up and you're on the side that CO2 isn't responsible for warming, care to explain how average temperatures back then were higher with the higher CO2? In fact, if it wasn't for CO2 levels climbing during the "snowball Earth" around 500-600 million ya, due to glaciation preventing carbonate deposits in the sea bed, that the earth warmed up and the glaciers retreated.

13th Zodiac
I was talking about two types of global warming idiot's. So I guess that makes you the third.

Were you? Because you don't mention that in the post:

13th Zodiac
My title and the article is self explanatry. Talk about denial. Even Another junk scientist ,Al Gore said the Artic would be Ice free by 2013 lol. Still no polar bears begging for asylum in Australia.

It's just a badly spelt and punctuated diatribe where you mention the Arctic twice by virtue of being ice free and polar bears (ironically) going to Australia which is actually closer to the Antarctic where you don't get Polar bears!

I think all you have done is make yourself look the fool, rather than anyone else.

stumason

jrod
Few people realize that before the rise of plant/algae life on ancient Earth, the atmosphere was rich in CO2 and there was almost no O2

There's a sweeping generalisation if ever there was one... I think "most people" who paid attention at school do know this - certainly we were taught it when I was a lad. After all, it is precisely down to the abundance of CO2 that plants evolved to utilise it!

Seeing as you brought it up and you're on the side that CO2 isn't responsible for warming, care to explain how average temperatures back then were higher with the higher CO2? In fact, if it wasn't for CO2 levels climbing during the "snowball Earth" around 500-600 million ya, due to glaciation preventing carbonate deposits in the sea bed, that the earth warmed up and the glaciers retreated.

I never said that CO2 isn't responsible for warming. There are far bigger things that we are doing that are a more imminent threat to humanity. While we are pumping tons and tons of CO2 in the air we are also destroying forests and poisoning our waters which kills algae, the natural sinks of CO2.

The reality is we as a species are destroying our once pristine planet. Those of who care do not have the wealth and power to do anything about it. Those with the wealth and power are the ones doing the biggest damage all in the name of making more money.

Most people(at least Americans) are ignorant to anything important in the world. You would be surprised at how many think it gets cold in the winter because the Earth is further away from the sun in the winter. The education system here is horrible. I would be willing to bet that at least 75% of college graduates in the US do not know the Earth once a CO2 rich atmosphere.

Gore is not a scientist.

Instead, consider science organizations like

nsidc.org...

once again... global warming is an political issue!!!!!!!
just an way to generate money....
selling airbubbles....cost nothing and 100% profit...

yes climate IS chancing as for 3,5 billions of years....big deal....

reply to post by monkeyluv


Great link.

Also for those who deny global warming on reason of colder winters or lower sea temperatures, consider this:
If you drop an icecube in a glass of water, what happens?
Now imagine that on a larger scale, like the world oceans(the glass of water) and the polar caps(the icecube).
See, the water gets cold, and the ice melts.... (Global warming 101 for idiots).

Or, just yuckyuck water cold, see snow lookit, global warming fraud yuckyuck. Al Gore, yuckyuck *sound of breathing through mouth*

I swear, people with this level of stupidity is the reason I'm not having any kids. Yes, that means you OP.
Idiocracy was a prophetic movie it seems....

Rant over.

reply to post by stumason


I would like to double-star this, but I can't!
This is unfair!
MODS! Give us more STARS!


Because, we all like postings which DENY IGNORANCE.

Thank you.

According to a recent report in climate depot, global sea ice is up 63% last year, another report states that sea ice is at its highest since 1983, actually, there are reports every week about sea ice breaking previous records on climate depot, and twisters in America, tropical storms, ice storms, droughts, floods, you name it, there is a report on it, oh yes, forest fires too.

FlySolo
The North West Passage. Ever heard of that? It's not in Antarctica but has been an eagerly anticipated trade route for Canada, Russia, US and Denmark.

Yep, I've heard of it, and it was open in 1921, and many times before that too, so its not evidence of global warming, is it!

pasiphae
i love how you start off by calling people idiots. there are plenty of very intelligent members on ATS that are not global warming deniers.

You're confusing intelligence with common sense...in my experience, the two are certainly not the same.

I've met genius level academics and high-profile, powerful corporate people who are beyond intelligent, but absolute thicko's when it comes to common sense or lateral thinking.

So really, as is the case for a lot of people generally...people can be very intelligent, massively high IQ, run algebraic equations that make your brain hurt, but are literally clueless in everyday life.

I remember one guy years ago...a top dog corporate boss (Billion £ corporation) had a fit that his telephone line wasn't working...he had the business brain, but lacked the ability to think of checking whether the phone was actually plugged into the wall....there are many disparate examples like this i've collected and stored away in my memory banks over the years.

I'm sure many of the more mature members will have similar examples of their own.

Common sense is different to intelligence.

This is how tptb get away with SO much in a world populated with increasingly intelligent people...they make use of and work within the 'common sense void'...add in an unhealthy dose of jingoism, and they get away with murder. And the problem seems to be getting worse.

Those with kids; Teach them about science, teach them literature and art history, teach them about anything...but whatever you do, don't forget to teach them to use their 'common'.

reply to post by pikestaff


You say this exact thing in every weather or climate thread, myself or another points out how that wasn't true and you just ignore it.

reply to post by MysterX

Common sense is different to intelligence.

The whole thing is so fascinating

People believe what they want to believe - no matter how intelligent they are

No matter what the evidence - when people don't truly understand either side they back the one that appeals to them, is least worrying - and is most comfy

It's not surprising that most would reject the idea that we could be looking at a massive ecologic disaster - and would have to give up a lifestyle tied to oil

That idea is not fun

Being able to carry on exactly the way we always have? Priceless

VoidHawk

FlySolo
The North West Passage. Ever heard of that? It's not in Antarctica but has been an eagerly anticipated trade route for Canada, Russia, US and Denmark.

Yep, I've heard of it, and it was open in 1921, and many times before that too, so its not evidence of global warming, is it!

Um, if you're going to try and give me a history lesson, remember I can fact check your lesson with google. Did you fact check before you came to class teacher?

The St Roch was the second ship to sail through the passage in 1944 after the Ronlad Amundson (1903- 1906).
However...

The first recorded attempt was the East-West voyage of John Cabot in 1497, and various subsequent expeditions (by, most notably, Drake, Cook, Hudson, Parry, Ross, etc.) led to the gradual mapping of the Passage, until Robert McClure (in 1854, and the first to traverse it from West to East, albeit partly by sledge charted the last major piece. After all this, including up to the early years of the 20th Century, it was finally concluded that commercial shipping was not possible and so interest waned.

There were many attempts and various routes tried. At times, many expeditions were stuck in the ice and had to wait it out...

“The three seasons of the short Arctic Summers from 1940-42 had been extremely bad for navigation, the worst consecutive three I had experienced as far as ice and weather conditions were concerned, and in my remaining years in the Arctic I never saw their like. Without hesitation I would say that most ships encountering the conditions we faced would have failed. I also believe that had we missed the single opportunity we had to get out of Pasley Bay, we most certainly would still be there, in small bits and pieces.”

A lot of the journey consisted of following up leads and anchoring were they could. They found the heaviest ice of the voyage at the entrance to McClure Strait, where they had to moor themselves to the ice floes, and it was only at the beginning of September that the conditions were noticeably different - so much so that it was noted : “It was really the only fine day we had during the entire passage...” (2). After that, it was back to the heavy, tightly-packed ice-fields and the bad weather, with hurricane-force winds almost capsizing the boat before they were able to find shelter. In fact, the “...season was the worst in years.”

It wasn't until 2007 where the journey was made "ice free". What do they they have to say about that I wonder?

2007 - Sailing-vessel ‘Cloud Nine’, a 17m Bowman ketch - The first American sailing boat to complete the passage from East to West, containing possibly the oldest man to do the journey ! Completed the journey in 45 days – “There was hardly any ice”, he told the Wall Street Journal.

2007 - James Allison,sailing in the 14.5m fibreglass Bowman 'Luck Dragon', said he felt a bit of a fraud after completing the trip because there wasn’t any ice.

2007 - A lightweight 7.5m x 5m catamaran, the Babouche, successfully navigated the full length of the 5,150km (3,200-mile) waterway. “This is the first time the journey has been completed entirely by sail... Not so long ago, ...this journey would have been impossible because of the ice”.

Nov 2008 – MV Camilla Desgagnes, Super Ice-Class vessel, is the first commercial ship to sail through the Northwest Passage : delivered sea-lift cargo from the East - normally comes from the West. Did it without an ice-breaker. Waguih Rayes, General Manager – “…I didn’t see one cube of ice.” “…there was no ice whatsoever…”.

So, in retrospect, your comment was rather um shall we say, disingenuous?
Sure, expeditions have sailed the passage before but not without extreme hardships. So to try and say global warming doesn't exist because a hundred years ago expeditions pounded their way through the ice is false. They "forced" their way through it. Nice try though.

Source

At this point whether we have global waring or an ice age,

mankind aint gonna solve it.

reply to post by stumason


Since you seem to really know your facts, can you tell me what is the most abundant greenhouse gas in our atmosphere?(to narrow it down, lets just say in the troposphere)

I rarely come across anyone who actually knows the correct answer.