Why ETs Have Not Shown Up Yet, And How We Can Say "We're Ready"

May be the jailers don't want to come to the jail and see the mess it's in

CaticusMaximus

And consider that ETs do not simply want to just say "hi".
When contact is made with a new species, they'll want to have that species be a member of the community, and share and learn and grow with everybody else in a synergistic manner, you know... like a community... in space.
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Its our choice, and we can say "we're ready" to join whatever interstellar community there is, which I believe is so much grander than anything we have imagined, by choosing compassion over cruelty. By LIVING compassionately. the first of those space faring people who will build that interstellar community with compassion, making a very cold and hostile universe just a little warmer, and a lot more friendly.

edit on 12/12/2013 by CaticusMaximus because: grammar

What a great thread, thank you very much for your valuable thoughts. Based on my own experiences you're right that "compassion" is one of the keys. And based on my experiences i can confirm the benevolent ETs are here and they moved to the next phase in contact to mankind.

What is the reason I'm so sure and what are the experiences I'm referring to?

* A few weeks ago an ATS thread called Return of the Gods: A 90 Page Transcript of Messages From an Orion E.T., Sigilda has been created by sled735 and lead to a quite controversial discussion.
The a.m. transscript is based on information an ET has provided to me. The details touch many aspects you and other members covered in your thread postings.

* Now to the point: This information I have received telepathically. The ATS Live Radio team of "Out-Of-The-Box" run an interview with me on that topic and did - based on my proposal - a live telepathy experiment where they finally came into contact with these ETs. This experiment and interview where part of the Out of the Box (SE1 EP5). I mention this because the "new phase" of ET contacts is the next step in a slow process of unveiling their existence and presence here.

* This means that more and more ETs are currently getting in contact with humans on earth by "telepathic communication". Telepathy is - as we've learned from the ETs - a kind of universal communication among beings in the universe.

* As you have assumed in your thread there is a huge "community" out there in the universe and the ETs are here to help us to make the next step in understanding of the world and support us on our way to this community.

* Based on the success during the ATS Live Radio Show i've started a public Telepathy Live Event four weeks ago. There are many participants who joined the different events who had contact to ET beings, ask questions and even are in separate individual contacts after the events. Well, because the participants are so excited of the results and their moving experiences we run the 4th event this evening...

It is not longer believing in ETs, it is now "experiencing" the ETs by ourselfs.

Thank you again - you're so approximate to the truth!

I think there could be another possibility. Its not even an opinion for me as I don't see it as fixed. Simply I don't know.

If you look t statistics its highly probable that there are other civilizations and probably a lot way more developed then ours. If they need to travel interstellar they haven't reach the totality of the universe. Something explorers do seek ultimate new things and the knowledge and understanding that derives from that. If they still are exploring they are seeking right?

So if you place yourself in such a situation and you have to choose... What would you choose?

Spent your time energy and resources on a planet full of apes that hardly can communicate with eachother and are fighting over food and babies? Or would you fly a little longer in space to meet a race that has evolved even more then you to learn and extend your knowledge wisdom and abilities.

Sonwhy would you look down if your journey is still going up and hou haven't reached your top as species yet?

bottleslingguy

jonnywhite


So where're they? They have the means to be here, but aren't.

what makes you so sure?

Because even with present technology amplified to the scale of travel between the stars it's still possible to colonize the galaxy in relatively short periods of time if there're enough self-replicating autonomous machines doing so. That's the only limiting factor, alongside all of the technology and insight needed for them to gather resources and have access to a map of the stars in our galaxy.

If there's a limitation stopping this from happening, it's unknown to us, because there're no laws of physics preventing this from happening.

Some hypothesize intelligent species kill themselves off. Some say they lose interest in the cosmos and inevitably become extinct. There're speculations all over the place to explain this. Our galaxy is one of the oldest and there's lots of research hinting there could be intelligent species a billion years old or more in our galaxy.

See here, for example:
io9.com - A Game-Changer in the Search for Alien Life: "All stars have planets"...

Shostak also admitted that the discovery reaffirms the idea that life could have emerged in the Galaxy a long time ago. "It's been possible to have worlds with life for quite some time now," he said, "there could be life out there that's billions of years old."

I referenced the story Programmed For Destruction by John Gribbin in the 1985 issue of Science Fiction Analog in my last post. I will reference another section of it:

The need for a garbage patrol was clear, and more than one intelligent species had taken the necessary steps. Every robot probe launched by a newly emerging intelligence would be met, sooner rather than later, by an older, more sophisticated probe programmed single-mindedly to destroy any self-replicating machines that didn't have the necessary inhibitions to keep things as they were. "You can look," ran the interstellar dictum in effect, "but you'd better not touch." The Frank Tipler had been caught red handed despoiling a planetary system, and paid the price.

I think it depends on what species and civilization that basically quarantining us for what ever reason. Be it for their personal reasons(I doubt it would be for there safety), more less ours.

I personally think it becomes a gigantic health.....problem.

See, if it was type one watching us, I'm pretty sure they would be our closest technological cousins in terms of a "Tech. Tree". Their technology would exceed ours in almost every way if it stood as a type one long enough, but could still be understood in...Theory, but could still be complex.

Look at ancient tribe people, you could tell them the earth and planets are round, while the sun the center of our system. Yet, they wouldn't get what general space looks like. There is no such thing as up or down, left or right.

Now go up the tech. tree some more...And it get pretty radical in terms of understanding technology, to where the machines seem almost alive, and apart of the civilizations very nature..But a wise civilization would have still kept there essence.

So do we got a type one in our system watching us...Or something more, where ancient seekers of wisdom, spirituality, and science wouldn't be ready for thousands of years.

Read this for a review of what I've described in my last two posts.

en.wikipedia.org - Self-replicating spacecraft...

In theory, a self-replicating spacecraft could be sent to a neighbouring star-system, where it would seek out raw materials (extracted from asteroids, moons, gas giants, etc.) to create replicas of itself. These replicas would then be sent out to other star systems. The original "parent" probe could then pursue its primary purpose within the star system. This mission varies widely depending on the variant of self-replicating starship proposed.

Given this pattern, and its similarity to the reproduction patterns of bacteria, it has been pointed out that von Neumann machines might be considered a form of life. In his short story, "Lungfish" (see Examples in fiction below), David Brin touches on this idea, pointing out that self-replicating machines launched by different species might actually compete with one another (in a Darwinistic fashion) for raw material, or even have conflicting missions. Given enough variety of "species" they might even form a type of ecology, or — should they also have a form of artificial intelligence — a society. They may even mutate with untold thousands of "generations".

The first quantitative engineering analysis of such a spacecraft was published in 1980 by Robert Freitas,[1] in which the non-replicating Project Daedalus design was modified to include all subsystems necessary for self-replication. The design's strategy was to use the probe to deliver a "seed" factory with a mass of about 443 tons to a distant site, have the seed factory replicate many copies of itself there to increase its total manufacturing capacity, over a 500 year period, and then use the resulting automated industrial complex to construct more probes with a single seed factory on board each.

It has been theorized that a self-replicating starship utilizing relatively conventional theoretical methods of interstellar travel (i.e., no exotic faster-than-light propulsion such as "warp drive", and speeds limited to an "average cruising speed" of 0.1c.) could spread throughout a galaxy the size of the Milky Way in as little as half a million years.[

Note this little tidbit from the link:

A response[4] came from Carl Sagan and William Newman. Now known as Sagan's Response, it pointed out that in fact Tipler had underestimated the rate of replication, and that von Neumann probes should have already started to consume most of the mass in the galaxy. Any intelligent race would therefore, Sagan and Newman reasoned, not design von Neumann probes in the first place, and would try to destroy any von Neumann probes found as soon as they were detected. As Robert Freitas[5] has pointed out the assumed capacity of von Neumann probes described by both sides of the debate are unlikely in reality, and more modestly reproducing systems are unlikely to be observable in their effects on our Solar System or the Galaxy as a whole.

That's exactly what's explained in the story I described in my last couple posts. So I'm a bit humbled there's a connection to Carl Sagan in that story.

Interesting link:
en.wikipedia.org - Bracewell probe...

All of this is so technical and toooo dry. I feel the OP is closer to the truth. However, I think it may be a cross between their disgust at our cruelty and their overall disinterest in our - by comparison - primitive activities.

I also think of the creatures on our planet and our relationship with them and always come to the conclusion the aliens have a similar relationship with us. For example, think of all the sea creatures in our ocean that HAVEN'T seen a human or a submarine or ship. A few of the deep sea creatures may have been lucky to spot one of our exploratory subs, but the vast majority have never seen one. And even land animals are discouraged from wandering in our cities and most people aren't hiking in the forests watching them, either. Overall, the creatures of earth have their own lives and do their own thing and we mostly try to keep it that way. Animals, by and large, do not have the brain capacity to speak with us on our level. While we do use them as pets and as a food source and in experiments and watch them to learn about biology and animal behavior and use them in entertainment, the relationship itself is not on an equal peer-to-peer basis. Unfortunately or not, our relationship with aliens isn't equal either. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just how the reality is.

SO I do feel they've visited, but I don't know in what capacity. Nor do I know the purpose of their visitation. I hope it's not to put us on a menu.

bottleslingguy
reply to post by ItDepends

 

more likely than no it is more like my way because the other way doesn't make sense and is highly unlikely.

maybe you are looking at this the wrong way?

OMG, it's either YOUR way or someone else's opinion is unlikely or they are looking at it wrong??? If you think intelligent ET has already been here....fine and dandy.

I'm done with your logic because you leave NO room for an alternative point of view and it is arrogant.

This is my view, opinion, logical assumption, I am certainly not saying there aren't other possibilities, that would be ignorant. My statement below is as valid as anyone else's.

Although, I do have a strong conviction that its simplicity could explain a lot of reasons why ET has not been here or even if intelligent ET exists. Is there some type of life out in the vastness of this Universe? The odds are extremely high that it does, but more likely to be microbial than anything else.

ItDepends



Why are we not ready? The better question is in this tiny picture of the Universe. Is it plausible that in the vastness of the Universe, they just haven't found us? (even if intelligent et exists)

You see a tiny glimpse of billions upon billions of stars with as many or more planets. We have no idea where or if the Universe ends or even where its' center is.

Now, Earth is just a very tiny, tiny, blue dot somewhere out there in the vastness of this universe.

Point, if ET even does exist (Intelligent ET), then there exists trillions of reasons why they have not found us or have even cared to find us.

The picture above is Disclosure! It discloses that earth is just a tiny grain of sand sitting in the Sahara Desert. If found, it will be by pure luck. Disclosure is our responsibilty of finding them......Earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old. I wouldn't count on it anytime soon.

Peace!!

edit on 13-12-2013 by ItDepends because: grammatical correction

reply to post by Huggiesunrise

the one big crime I see that we've committed as a selfish species is the way we've dirtied up this planet. no one should be allowed to do that anywhere in the universe. It's like shatting where you eat. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, but since we are an inquisitive species (none of the other inhabitants seem to ask questions but that's another thread) and like to build things and explore our world we make tools and machines that throughout the whole process make the Earth dirtier and dirtier. and as long as we continue to use nuclear and fossil (aka dirty) fuels for our energy needs we will never advance to a Type 1 Civilization on the Karashev Scale. And I think it's important because the current power paradigm is not sustainable and would be foolish to invest in at this point. Peak oil is here so let's make plans for our future and invest in non-polluting near zero impact technologies. And it seems at this point the only ones able to pull back the curtain on the people who run the show now would be the ets. If they offer us some simple (to them) technology we could improve the standards of living across the planet. We could get food and clean water to every part of the globe. not only that but education, health care, shelter and housing, give everyone a chance at achieving a sort of self-actualization that will make each of us more whole and in turn more helpful and kind to one another. That way the planet could sustain a much higher population of humans, but right now everybody feels like they have to be a hoarder and it all boils down to fossil fuels. There needs to be a way to get off them and I don't know why it needs to be complicated or take a long time. I don't think the planet can take much more of us for much longer.

bottleslingguy
I don't think the planet can take much more of us for much longer.

The comedian George Carlin had a slightly different take on this. He said don't worry about the planet. It will take care of itself. It's humanity that will ultimately die off and be replaced by something else, probably a little better in tune with the new environment, whatever shape it may be in. Bugs, robots, even little bacteria that thrives on poison. The planet will be just fine.

ItDepends


OMG, it's either YOUR way or someone else's opinion is unlikely or they are looking at it wrong??? If you think intelligent ET has already been here....fine and dandy.

but mine is based on things others have written about or suggested. I've had my own experiences but in order to get a more rounded idea of the subject I've relied on others. That is not arrogant, it is conviction.

ItDepends

Is there some type of life out in the vastness of this Universe? The odds are extremely high that it does, but more likely to be microbial than anything else.

Why would you think that? if there are planets billions of years older than ours and life somehow sprang up on it before it was even cooled, then why would it be so unlikely that same "random" event wouldn't happen somewhere else and give rise to beings that had a need to explore the universe too? There is already us as an example that it does happen so what would be preventing it from happening elsewhere? I don't get it it just sounds like you are saying that because you don't want to think any other way. It's not my desire to make you think what I think, but you're going to have to accept it one way or another because it's right around the corner.

jonnywhite
Read this for a review of what I've described in my last two posts.
en.wikipedia.org - Self-replicating spacecraft...
SO I do feel they've visited, but I don't know in what capacity. Nor do I know the purpose of their visitation. I hope it's not to put us on a menu.

Which always leads me to think that perhaps at least some bacteria are actually tiny little purposely manufactured von Neumann machines, sent out in clouds into the universe, landing on various planets and adapting and evolving to the point where they send out even more copies of themselves, spreading out.

I wondered what the ultimate point of all this exploration and consumption and spreading life around was. After giving it some thought, I decided that the universe is a huge battle between life and entropy. Life consumes entropy and gives it order. More importantly, life provides a point of view as an observer, which collapses the virtual wave function and allows the universe to exist in reality. And as life continues to spread through the universe, consuming everything into its matrix, it will eventually get to the point where it consumes everything, and then it "bootstraps" the entire universe into existence in all times by becoming aware of it. This is something that transcends and encompasses all of time. We're all just an infinitesimally tiny little part of the process.

reply to post by Blue Shift

that's why I was saying "...much more of US...". That's why I am supporting the idea of getting totally off nuclear and fossil fuels right now like yesterday, but I don't think we can do it without help from our creators. Just like when they gave us civilization, architecture, plant and animal domestication, the little boosts on our way, hopefully they will allow us to have access to small samples of non-polluting technology. That would nullify our impact on the planet, get her off our backs and improve living standards around the world while allowing for a much higher maybe unlimited number of population. Otherwise George is right and we are doomed.

bottleslingguy


Why would you think that? if there are planets billions of years older than ours and life somehow sprang up on it before it was even cooled, then why would it be so unlikely that same "random" event wouldn't happen somewhere else and give rise to beings that had a need to explore the universe too? There is already us as an example that it does happen so what would be preventing it from happening elsewhere? I don't get it it just sounds like you are saying that because you don't want to think any other way. It's not my desire to make you think what I think, but you're going to have to accept it one way or another because it's right around the corner.

We must have misunderstood each other somewhere. I have no problem with your above statement. I believe that there is a great possibility that in the vastness of the Universe, that life in some form has developed. The odds almost make this a certainty. So, I am open to that understanding. Whether "it's right around the corner" is just a guess. And how much time would it take to get around that corner? The Universe is accepted to be around 14.5 Billion years old......with an 'UNKNOWN' amount of stars, planets, solar systems, galaxies (trillions upon trillions), it could be millions of years to get around that corner. However, I'm all in favor of continuing our exploration and searching.......there is so much we just don't know, and that is an exciting thought. What we may find and learn!!

Peace!!

reply to post by ItDepends


I'm HOPING it's right around the corner because the planet is getting madder day after day

From experience I will say:

Those who look different from us, grey types etc
wont and can't show themselves without, willingly or unwillingly (depending on their intentions) create fear in us. Humanity minds are not capable of being around them for very long.

I do believe with practice we can achieve it, but they are very fragile so when we get consumed by the fear we can create much hurt to them, physically.

Their energy, telepathic ability etc are much higher than ours.

Those who look like us,
those of much higher wisdom.
We can never understand why they wont show themselves to us in physicallity because they are beyond our wisdom. We just have to accept that fact.
They know better.

Those who are at war, good and bad... they will probably show themselves on this Earth one day or another. The majority wont be ready then either, but those who are will be ok.

OneManArmy
reply to post by CaticusMaximus

 

We are so far from ready, its not even funny.

I don't agree.

WE have always been ready, most of us have anyway.

The title of this thread ought really to have read; Why have world governments kept ETI secret from us, even though we are ready.

And it has everything to do with maintaining control and nothing to do with paniced public IMO.

Ask yourself if the government is fearful of the public panicking over what they might see as imminent threat of death from above, why then did Governments freely try to scare the crap out of the world with the threat of nuclear annihilation during the cold war?

Panic has nothing to do with it, regardless of what the heavily loaded 'Orson broadcast' bunk would have the public believe (it was MEANT to cause panic, claiming ETs were actually killing people..so tptb can conveniently refer back to it and cite 'the public can't handle the truth')

Within a month, ETI disclosure would be fairly old news for the majority of the public, who'd be going about their normal business as usual.

If tptb revealed ETI's...they'd be forced to reveal how they are powering their craft..and tptb really, really don't want that to happen.

What if aliens came to earth many years ago....

then simply egineered us humans from a hybridisation program

Then fed us a set of rules, gave us basic knowledge and left us to fend for ourselfs.

this would explain why there was so much worship and talk about angels and gods in the ancient times

and would also explain why they don't show themselves again, they already did, and that reason was just to kickstart our race.

and now they simply come and go, watching their creations unfold.....


i acutally like this theory, maybe they have done this thousands of times before all throughout the universe, and their end goal is to create more and more intelligent species

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


I think the reason they don't show themselves is way simpler...

They gotta know if they pop out and say "HiYa humans"...

there's going to be millions of people rushing them all begging...

"No wait... Take me with you!"

Yup if I was an ET I'd definitely want to keep it on the down/low

reply to post by SkuzzleButt


Sure..it makes sense so why not?

Imagine if we could see into the minds of lower animals here on Earth..what might the thought processes of animals we monitor and interact with have to say about our contact with them i wonder?

I'd bet it would be remarkably similar to human reports of interactions with ETIs.

A scenario; Endagered species is tracked down and hunted by conservation wokers in it's natural habitat, darted from a chopper and rendered immobile and unconscious, a subcutaneous tracking device is implanted somewhere on the animals body and that single creature can then be located again easily, even in the depths of forests and extensive ranging lands, whereever it goes it can be found again and if need be, darted again to take blood and tissue samples for testing.

Isn't that process eerilly similar to reports by people who claim contact with unknown technological species AKA ET's?

It's exactly the same in fact.

The animal (if it could reason) would see strange creatures in the head of a magical flying beast..like a giant angry wasp or bee making a frightful noise, one of the odd creatures pointed a long magic wand that spat silver objects at high speed at me, and then i felt a strange pain in my back, even though the creature inside the wasps head never touched me or came out of the wasps head, it still stung me like a sharp wasps sting...then i suddenly and mysteriously felt very tired and went to sleep...the last thing i remember was seeing the giant wasp land on the ground and one of the odd creatures got out of it's eye and was walking towards me..then i fell asleep.

The next thing i remember seeing was the giant wasp, angry once again flying off in the distance and i had a pain in my shoulder that wasn't there before.

Doesn't this sound almost exactly like an abduction scenario?

Well...we don't generally try to converse and explain what were doing to or for the animal...why do people expect ETI's to be any different to our own example when were doing it to other life on this planet?

SkuzzleButt
What if aliens came to earth many years ago....

then simply egineered us humans from a hybridisation program

Then fed us a set of rules, gave us basic knowledge and left us to fend for ourselfs.

this would explain why there was so much worship and talk about angels and gods in the ancient times

and would also explain why they don't show themselves again, they already did, and that reason was just to kickstart our race.

and now they simply come and go, watching their creations unfold.....


i acutally like this theory, maybe they have done this thousands of times before all throughout the universe, and their end goal is to create more and more intelligent species

edit on 14-12-2013 by SkuzzleButt because: (no reason given)

...and who created them? and where did they come from and so on and so on, etc., etc.