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Scottish Independence : Why No Say for the Whole UK?

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posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 04:58 PM

Scottish first minister Alex Salmond has launched his government's independence blueprint, calling it a "mission statement" for the future. The 670-page White Paper promised a "revolution" in social policy, with childcare at its heart. The launch came ahead of next September's independence referendum. Alistair Darling, leader of the campaign to keep the Union, branded the document a "work of fiction, full of meaningless assertions".

On 18 September, Scots voters will be asked the yes/no question: "Should Scotland be an independent country?" Launching the paper - titled Scotland's Future: Your guide to an independent Scotland - in Glasgow, Mr Salmond said: "This is the most comprehensive blueprint for an independent country ever published, not just for Scotland but for any prospective independent nation.‬‬‬ As well as making the case for independence, the White Paper also set out a series of policy pledges which the SNP said it would pursue if elected as the government of an independent Scotland…….

Now there has been much discussion over this down the years and on here. But most of it is centred on Scotland and its people’s future, rather than the remaining majority in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Some of who are Scots living in other parts of the UK, work directly and indirectly for Scottish businesses or have relatives North of the Border. Even if none of those things apply the division and dilution of the UK will affect all of us who live in Britain and yet we are given no say on the matter.

For those outside our islands who have not studied the history of Britain there is often and unclear distinction between England and Great Britain. When in fact it’s fairly simple.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is literally the four nations of England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales (as below). Politically we are one nation known as the UK although in many sports we often compete (fiercely) against each other as separate nations.

So to get to the point. The population of Scotland will vote next year on whether to leave the United Kingdom and become an independent nation.

Scotland has an approximate population of 5.3m. England has almost 10 times the population with around 53m whilst Wales has a population of something like 3.1m and Northern Ireland 1.8m.

Scotland was not conquered by England and was a willing partner in the formation of the United Kingdom. However when the question of divorce comes up it seems the other partner(s) will have no say in the matter.

Mr. Salmond of the Scots Nationalists is trying to claim all the accolades for securing a vote on real independence, but then he still wants the comfort blanket of open borders and a single currency with the rest of the United Kingdom (still governed by the Bank of England). Which isn’t real independence at all. He may also find that controlling and getting those large corporations to pay tax in Scotland is a much harder task than he believes if recent experience is anything to go by in the whole UK.

There is a lot of anti-Scottish & anti-English sniping by those harbouring a more myopic view of the situation with many arguments for and against the Scots leaving the family. Most of it is short sighted and doesn’t look at the bigger picture. There will be a lot of distraction, time and expense wasted on new flags, government stationery, new embassies, treaties, Armed Forces and even the shaking up of the political map to consider. Lawyers will be working on it for decades. All of which will weaken the UK overall on the international stage especially within the EU.

So I am wondering why more than 90% of the whole UK has no say in the divorce that could ensue.

Surely the underlying problem is that our whole political system is broken and requires reform and the whole of the United Kingdom should have their say when it comes to breaking it up?
edit on Tue Nov 26 2013 by DontTreadOnMe because: trimmed quote IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS

posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 05:46 PM
If we do vote yes for Independence, it will be as much about making a damning indictment of the corruption of Westminster as a desire for self-governance, of that I am convinced.

posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 05:53 PM

If we do vote yes for Independence, it will be as much about making a damning indictment of the corruption of Westminster as a desire for self-governance, of that I am convinced.

If Scotland desires self governance why stay in the EU. There is NO self governance proposed.
Smoke and mirrors .. smoke and mirrors.

But - I think Scotland should leave the union - the rest of us are sick of the constant whingeing ..

Alex Salmond just wants to promote himself to PM.

posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 05:54 PM
Why should the rest of the uk have a say in our freedom? We are setting the standard for the rest of the world.

posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 06:14 PM
reply to post by ScottProphhit

Freedom - don't make me laugh - your big master is in Brussels are you going to ask for freedom from them ?

posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 07:38 PM
Does anyone remember that this ISLAND is called ALBION?

Are we all so small these days, that we've forgotten that "Scottish", "Welsh" and "English" are MODERN constructs?

What ever happened to 'getting on with our fellow human beings?

It's sad that Scots, Welsh and English alike are so wrapped up in "nationalism" that they don't see they are being DIVIDED AND CONQUERED....

Talk about DUMB!

Scottish Independence will not get them freedom from the EU. In fact it will further weaken the ability of the "English", "Welsh" and "Scots" to get out of the EU.... the EU is the problem. Let's get out of that first, then work out "Scottish Independence".

But then, I have a feeling people will be too wrapped up in "nationalism" and petty pride, to even understand the points I'm driving at.

Sad really.

posted on Nov, 26 2013 @ 08:25 PM
reply to post by mirageman

Excellent OP and graphics mirageman (thumbs up emo)

A couple of points that have been put out which are no more than 'smoke and mirrors .....

# By 2016 the 'old age pension' will be that anyway with cost of living incs.

# Helping more women into work? Lol ...where will these jobs be coming from?

# How will the Royal Mail be returned from the new 'share holders'?? when

NR and other banks were never returned back to their share holders after their

recovery from the bank bail outs?

posted on Nov, 29 2013 @ 04:31 AM
reply to post by mirageman

I personally believe that if the Scottish people want to be independent from the rest of the UK, then I believe that is an affair for them to decide. I do not believe that the rest of the people of the United Kingdom, have sufficient understanding of the reasoning which lead to the suggestion that Scotland leave the UK, to vote on it, because most of us have no idea what sort of treatment Scotland has received in times past, from Whitehall and from Westminster.

The whole reason that this thing even came up in the first place, is because the UK government consistently gathered power and resources about itself and refused to share them properly across the breadth of the nation as a whole. The maltreatment of central governments responsibility to share its spoils across the entirety of the nation, lead to some Scots deciding that enough was enough, and actually suggesting that Scotland take its successful industries, its wonderful countryside, and its cultural centers and festivals, and try and go it alone, since the government in London were so adamantly opposed to significantly changing their poor attitude toward the north, and matters pertaining to its financial and social security.

I can well understand that, because even though I do not live in Scotland, I am the sort of person who pays attention to things. Every news report, blog, comments here on ATS, youtube videos, and even lighthearted social commentary, points to the improvements in Scotland, being a result of purely Scottish initiatives, under the devolved government, and indeed to the fact that the only thing Whitehall has done for Scotland in the last twenty years, is hold it back from making progress toward achieving its optimal efficiency and productivity.

Heck, I live in Essex, right on the mouth of the Thames Estuary, and I often feel like our little town is being left behind, and we are only 40.7 miles away from London! There are people living in the rest of the UK that would also probably quite like to separate themselves from the awful, grubby, slimy, dirty scumbags that run the UK right now. I say, if Scotland has the stones and the infrastructure to take this leap, then I say good luck to the entire unconquered land, and everyone living in it. I would also say, that if you do not live there, were not born there, have no family there, and do not work there, nor visit in any way regularly, you have no business assuming that you are qualified to vote on the matter.


When I use the word "you" I do not mean anyone in particular, but in the general sense.
edit on 29-11-2013 by TrueBrit because: Clarification added.

edit on 29-11-2013 by TrueBrit because: More clarification... tsk... must learn to be more detailed in my delivery!

posted on Nov, 29 2013 @ 04:44 AM
We talk here all the time about getting rid of those in power and the need for change because of the corruption and Illegal Wars and such, but when it comes to the crunch no-one seems to have the Balls to actually do it...

Scotland has a chance...lets see if the people take it.
From a media point of View this will be the dirtiest Campaign in History, it's already Happening.

posted on Nov, 29 2013 @ 05:01 AM
reply to post by mirageman

Why no say for the rest of the UK - Well that's because it has no impact on you, or does it????

Scotland pays for all of its services and some. We receive less back but are expected to "just get on with it".

If any other nation should be party to a vote it is England and England only as the union is between the Kingdoms of Scotland and England. And let it be known that at the time of the union there was massive civil unrest in Scotland because the "people" did not want it, the politicians/lords did...for their own gain.

That sentiment has not changed in Scotland.

You ask questions relating to funding this and funding that, EU this and EU that. Why are you worried about what England, Wales and NI have to fund? Your economy is sound and your debt is small and manageable so you should handle it just fine...

Or is it because you know that the UK economy is f**ked and you are worried about the costs and lost revenue? Or are you secretly worried that Scotland will actually manage on their own and possibly be in a better position that the remainder of the UK?

Or are you jealous at the prospect that the Scottish people will achieve an option not available to you?

If i were you, i would let us Scots worry about what we do and concentrate on your own. Please feel free to spread that around all of your fellow countrymen, especially those in the Media and Government.

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