Comet Ison suddendly Outburst!! make it Naked Eye Sight :)

very blue isn't it?

reply to post by Curious69


The post directly above my first one... surely you must have read it before you got to mine lol.

3-4000 mile long...? It's nearly 100million miles away at the moment, if it were that small we'd probably not be able to see it. I don't know how fast it's going but I would presume it's probably covering the 3-4000 miles every few minutes...

crzayfool
reply to post by Curious69

 

The post directly above my first one... surely you must have read it before you got to mine lol.

3-4000 mile long...? It's nearly 100million miles away at the moment, if it were that small we'd probably not be able to see it. I don't know how fast it's going but I would presume it's probably covering the 3-4000 miles every few minutes...

well stupid/ignorant as i might be, i took some time googeling it and found this quote amongst many i guess.

"quote start"Planetary Science Institute research scientist Jian-Yang Li led a team of scientists that used The Hubble Space Telescope's Wide Field Camera 3 on April 10, 2013 to determine the size of Comet ISON's coma. On April 10, 2013 Comet ISON was around 386,000,000 miles (621,000,000 km) from the Sun. This put it inside the orbit of Jupiter. Li and his team determined the coma was roughly 3,100 miles (5,000 km) in diameter. This made it almost as wide as the distance between Los Angeles and Augusta, Maine.

Li and his team observed a jet spewing dust from the Sun-facing side of the comet. The dust tail was already 2,300 miles (3,700 km) long. If Comet ISON continues to perform, as expected, it will be one of the brightest comets in history.

Thats what i found. just saying.
and btw. you can see stars many lightyears away, they dont need to be millions of miles wide to be seen.
but hey i might be the ignorant one.

im pretty number blind so i cant convert the speed but i found this page where the comets movements can be followed real time i guess. www.cometison2013.co.uk... and its accelerating, i did not know that.

Curious69
reply to post by Curious69

 

I wonder what properties makes the coma and tail light up/glow?

Two processes and three interactional mechanisms. The first two are thermal and electromagnetic dissipation resulting from direct solar heating, solar electro-magnetic inductions and increasing of loss of gravitational dominance ( over small particles ) as the comet moves inward. ( like forcing a blow dryer over a plasma ball, except the 'air' is magnetic/electric fields and the plasma is relative gravitation). Simply put; the changing environmental conditions of the rapidly moving "comet" are expressed ,VISUALLY, in much the same way as the contrail from an jet airplane is. The sun then reflects off of this 'plume' ( though some of it may be internally luminescent for the same reasons a florescent light bulb is )

is it the light from the sun reflecting the ejected material?

If its the sun is reflecting the material, where does the tail material go, the tail has a end! but should it not be possible to see the reminense of the tail material for much longer? or does it really disperse that thin.

excellent question.
the visibility of the libido ( brightness) of an object ( in this case in space ) is governed by the law of the square meaning that at a certain distance ,even if the sun is still illuminating it you may not be able to see it because you are beyond a critical distance. If you took a space ship and sailed along ison's course the material LEFT BEHIND would be as visible up close as jet trails near airports.

Are comets always the same speed?

Absolutely not

If the comet was slower would the coma/tail be wider and vise versa.

The 'widness' of the comet tail is dependent ...mostly ...on the solar thermal, radiative and electromagnetic pressures it is experiencing, so slower would mean , heating slower ..etc, etc and thus tails tend to a rather uniform shape...brightness on the other hand is a different story.

Does the ejected material speed up the comet? much like a rocket engine together with the pull of the sun/planets

marginally...but only do to the intertia/gravity relation ship of the pull ofa massive body on a (constantly) decreasingly smaller body ...there can only be impulse ( rocket like propulsion ) if out gassing ( vaporizing or rapid melting) of the comet happens in the 'rear'...most evidence suggests that impulse producing jets come from the leading edge ( acting as an ineffective brake against gravity ) due to direct swolar radiation and heating

this is proberbly basis knowledge in gravity class but i did not attend that day

What makes a comet create a tail,

in my opinion mostly electromagnetic charge and the fluorescent glow from it accompanied by solar reflection

i read/heard that it was the heat from the sun, but the amount of water ejected seems to be very small compared to the amount of dust. studies determined that Comet ISON is expelling roughly 130 pounds (60 kg) of water and 112,000 pounds (51,000 kg) of dust every minute. These shed materials create Comet ISON's coma, dust tail and dust trail.
Dirty snowball i know, just seems to be way more dirt than snow!

Comets are not dirty snow balls and the ort cloud is bad science.
Ison changed two orders of magnitude in visibility in less than 24hours, there is NO WAY THAT COULD HAPPEN in a gradient thermal environment...the cause HAS TO be magnetic and electromagnetic.
the most probable scenario is that Ison ( glowing green and already identified as carbon emitting )is acting , as Tesla said , a perfect conductor in the near perfect vacuum of space and is a massive chunk of carbon in either the form of diamond or graphene.

reply to post by Silverlok


Thanks silverlok for taking the time to answer. are all these accepted "facts" ?
are the dismissal of the comet as a dirty snowball a speculation on your part? or can i read about that big Carbon/diamond lumb anywhere?
and if its a more solid body like carbon/diamond would it not be the first ever "comet" to show those properties?
i mean a asteroide does to my knowledge not shed any material in a tail or halo as it nears the sun, but would some asteroides not contain vaporising material also, to my knowledge you dont vaporize carbon/diamond that easy.
not as easy as iron/stone in asteroides anyway.
when it comes to electromagnetic properties i heard alot of theroies about that and how it can influence on greate distances, but to my knowledge it is just pure theory/speculation at the moment.

Curious69
reply to post by Silverlok

 

Thanks silverlok for taking the time to answer. are all these accepted "facts" ?

NO they are my opinions ( though very well backed ) .

accepted facts are accepted by whom? and what is science? and the nature of ats about?..denying ignorance.

if you are still asking a question posing as uniformed what a strange response you have given . shal we enter into a discussion of ison ( which this thread is about ) or about cometary theory , or electromagnetic interactions in vacuum ? or about referential gravitational influence

or shall we both observe ( the first tenant of science ) and confer?

Silverlok

Curious69
reply to post by Silverlok

 

Thanks silverlok for taking the time to answer. are all these accepted "facts" ?

NO they are my opinions ( though very well backed ) .

accepted facts are accepted by whom? and what is science? and the nature of ats about?..denying ignorance.

if you are still asking a question posing as uniformed what a strange response you have given . shal we enter into a discussion of ison ( which this thread is about ) or about cometary theory , or electromagnetic interactions in vacuum ? or about referential gravitational influence

or shall we both observe ( the first tenant of science ) and confer?

Im sorry if it came over as a rude response, not intended at all.
what i ment about accepted facts, wich does seem to be a bad worthing considering the hands off approach we
naturally have to apply when talking about cellestrial bodies in general, was that there are institutions and groups wich findings we tend to accept as facts, its not just me.
and your theory might be just as good and informed as any of the accepted sceince institutions.
and im ignorant enough not to be in a position where i can/will dismiss your points of view.
But i never heard of the carbon/diamond theory before, it was not a dismissal of your input. but i read your answer
as if it was written in stone so to speak.
A majority i would think has come to the consensus that the earth is round. some might still say its flat and have good arguments, but it is a ACCEPTED fact and only a few people have seen the proof in person.
You just told me that the world may be a triangle, and i was just asking to know more about the triangle"carbon/diamond" theory.

reply to post by Silverlok

Comets are not dirty snow balls and the ort cloud is bad science. .
Ison changed two orders of magnitude in visibility in less than 24hours, there is NO WAY THAT COULD HAPPEN in a gradient thermal environment...the cause HAS TO be magnetic and electromagnetic.
the most probable scenario is that Ison ( glowing green and already identified as carbon emitting )is acting , as Tesla said , a perfect conductor in the near perfect vacuum of space and is a massive chunk of carbon in either the form of diamond or graphene.

- bold font added to quote -





Great stonking cat amongst the pidgins! You have done it now.

Glad to see someone with very real science cred on ATS post this on the latest ISON thread. The content of this reply covers the points of my own reply on that other ISON thread (now assigned to a deep cold freeze) that I am now unable to post. Of course I would not have managed to state the same anywhere near as well anyway. The theory fits the data we are getting. Look at the evidence people. The 'EC theory' can no longer be so easily denied, although it may warrant a better name.

How the heck can science survive without debate and opposing theories. Good on you Silverlok!



EDIT - Stared both of your posts and hope others do also, simply because they demonstrate science is about taking unconventional positions when the need arises (often) as much as it is about conventions.

reply to post by Curious69


Definitely not stupid or ignorant, just human.

That was back in April when Hubble reported that sighting, I assume it has grown somewhat since then. Who knows, maybe it still has a chode of a coma..?


I understand that you can see stars from light-years away but that is because they emit it themselves on an immense scale - we're talking about a tiny little rock floating through space that is only reflecting the light that hits it.

If we could see all of those little rocks floating around in the night's sky it would be a white wash...

Tallone
reply to post by Silverlok

 

Comets are not dirty snow balls and the ort cloud is bad science. .
Ison changed two orders of magnitude in visibility in less than 24hours, there is NO WAY THAT COULD HAPPEN in a gradient thermal environment...the cause HAS TO be magnetic and electromagnetic.
the most probable scenario is that Ison ( glowing green and already identified as carbon emitting )is acting , as Tesla said , a perfect conductor in the near perfect vacuum of space and is a massive chunk of carbon in either the form of diamond or graphene.

- bold font added to quote -

Great stonking cat amongst the pidgins! You have done it now.

Glad to see someone with very real science cred on ATS post this on the latest ISON thread. The content of this reply covers the points of my own reply on that other ISON thread (now assigned to a deep cold freeze) that I am now unable to post. Of course I would not have managed to state the same anywhere near as well anyway.

How the heck can science survive without debate and opposing theories. Good on you!



EDIT - Stared both of your posts and hope others do also, simply because they demonstrate science is about taking unconventional positions when the need arises (often) as much as it is about conventions.

edit on 17-11-2013 by Tallone because: (no reason given)

Wow... O.O A diamond comet? A chunk of that would make quite an engagement ring.

I wonder if this theory can also somehow account for the blue color of the comet? Can comets come in other colors? And if so, does the electric universe theory have a reason to account for this?

Wait. If I remember correctly, doesn't this theory also mean that, if the comet gets close enough, it can strike our planet with a great lightning bolt-arc thingy?? Yikes!

I guess this thread takes over the "Comet ISON : Realtime Image and Info 2013" thread, so I'll post here.

Nice view of Ison next to some galaxies: spaceweathergallery.com...
Taken by Chan Yat Ping on November 15, 2013 @ Hong Kong, China.


The two galaxies here are NGC 4731 (top) and NGC 4697 (bottom). Sky-Map.com view

The Electric Comet | Full Documentary.



I favor this theory more than the current mainstream ones.

ISON may have split into pieces. Yikes!

Posted at Comets and Asteroids Facebook page (emphasis mine):

COMET C/2012 S1 (ISON) update November 16, 2013 from CBET 3715
H. Boehnhardt, C. Tubiana, N. Oklay, and J. B. Vincent, Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, Katlenburg-Lindau; and U. Hopp, C. Ries, M. Schmidt, A. Riffeser, and C. Goessl, Astronomical Institute, Ludwig Maximilian University, Munich, report the detection of coma wings in Laplace-filter-processed CCD exposures of comet C/2012 S1 obtained with the 0.4-m telescope of the Mt. Wendelstein Observatory on Nov. 14.16-14.21 and 16.16-16.21 UT. The arclet-like wings appeared in opposite direction from the nucleus at position angles 15 and 195 deg on Nov. 14 and at p.a. 25 and 205 deg on Nov. 16. The coma wings extended straight from the nucleus for about 4700 km on Nov. 14 and 13500 km on Nov. 16 on either side of the extended radius vector and continued in streamers of the plasma tail. No coma wings were found in similar exposures obtained on Nov. 13. The coma wings suggest the presence of two or more sub-nuclei with individual expanding atmospheres in the overall cometary coma and may indicate recent nucleus splitting in the comet.

Here's some literature on "comet wings":
books.google.co.uk...
www.astro.umd.edu...

In before Nibiru believers start thrashing about ISON being a "winged planet"

[Edit] Here's another confirmation, posted at the International Comet group:

reply to post by wildespace


Maybe the ISON splitting into pieces info might make a thread topic of its own. Does this mean less chance of it surviving the sun-swing, or will the pieces as a group still be able to go around "intact"? What if it splits still further into multiple pieces?

reply to post by wildespace


Not sure if that will stop the Nibiru folks, but there are others who may assert that it has not split into pieces but rather it is (and always was) 2 or more different objects traveling together. Sometimes very tightly spaced so it appears as a single object, and other times not as tightly grouped so there is evidence of "multiple" um....somethings.

Regardless, this is certainly a very interesting and unusual comet in many ways. Glad it's still heading our way as we may get some answers as it swings around the sun and gets closer before heading off in the great beyond - assuming it doesn't disintegrate first.

Having the Deep Impact/EPOXI satellite go verklempt/defunct right when it could have provided a lot of good data/info is a co-inky-dink that still doesn't sit well with me. I've also read that NASA may have re-established contact with it, but if so - why no images/data from a satellite that was *designed* to study comets? All we have is this:

neo.jpl.nasa.gov...

And if NASA is getting this, why nothing else?

I'm perplexed....

It should appear near mars around 4:30-5:30am. We can see it here in Canberra, but unfortunately we get it at such a low angle that we can't track it that well. In the Northern Hemisphere, it will be near Mars, but you'll be able to see it for a longer period of time, as it appears much higher in the sky

Riffrafter
Having the Deep Impact/EPOXI satellite go verklempt/defunct right when it could have provided a lot of good data/info is a co-inky-dink that still doesn't sit well with me. I've also read that NASA may have re-established contact with it, but if so - why no images/data from a satellite that was *designed* to study comets?

As explained in this thread, the Deep Impact conspiracy theory only works if you completely ignore the facts.

The spacecraft was designed to take photos of comets at CLOSE range, and
it is currently nowhere near comet ISON.

files.abovetopsecret.com...

Even if it was working perfectly, its uselessly positioned to do anything.

reply to post by alfa1


Thanks for the info - and for helping me to deny ignorance.

reply to post by wildespace


Amazing "seeds of life vs Comets of beautiful death" if you ask me...

reply to post by Riffrafter


Despite some good explanations to my questions, Im still scratching my head over the carbon/diamond theory
Why would it shear off material in a tail if the components are solid and not easily waporized as say ice.
I found barium and boron was 2 components that burn green and cobber burns blue wich are the colours observed.
why cant the "comet" be made if those components instead of carbon/diamond.
I found boron to be one of the common impurities in diamond lending some credibility to that theory though.
Why cant i find a spectrum analysis of ison?