Osborne Unveils Tough New Rules For Jobless

reply to post by uncommitted

That's a fairly pathetic response isn't it? Floors need sweeping, toilets need cleaning - who would you have do it? Bring in immigrants because it's obviously beneath you isn't it?

If you want to defend making people work a thirty hour week for £60 or so then so be it. That equates to some £2 an hour. How is that going to help any ones self worth. There are simply not enough jobs out there. Sure the streets need cleaning but pay people enough money to live on.
This is not helping with job creation or helping peoples self esteem. It is a punishment. The same kind of thing they do to criminals when they give them community service...
Nor it is beneath me or a worthless job. The man that cleans the streets saves more lives than a doctor. Treat people like people and they will act like peeps. Treat them like animals and they will behave as such...

reply to post by Scorchio

People are just being asked to give a little something back to the community. What the hell is wrong with that?

How is working a thirty hour week giving a little something back to the community..This is the creation of an underclass. It is slave labour where peeps will be working well under the minimum wage. The kind of thing you are justifying would work well out in somewhere like North Korea..

You wont be so smug if you loose your job and have to go around cleaning dog poop up for two pound an hour so that you can afford to eat... There simply are not enough jobs and that is not the fault of the average man and the average man should not be punished for the crimes of the banking cartel that has bled this country dry.

It is short sighted on you part to think you are somehow different to these people. These are your people it is happening to. This is your country it is happening in and as long as enough peeps like you continue to defend it. It will continue to happen.

Further When the riots come I dont think you will be feeling so smug.. You sound like riot meat to me....that was a joke btw..

reply to post by uncommitted


Why should we the public be made to feel guilty when this bloody government are determined to keep putting the boot in. I have never liked children in need. I cringe when I see these rich celebrities making fools of themselves and patronising everyone. If they all coughed up, including all these politician's, then we wouldn't have to suffer CIN.

So they make the cuts and then ask for it back in a nutshell. I'm not even blaming the charities, but people like cam make little cameo appearance's on programmes like that and I find it very insulting.

I work for a charity and I took a pay cut as soon as the coalition got in. They couldn't wait to ask us to have a pay cut. This is meant to be a charity and they blamed the government. If I was the chief exec, I would have said NO bollocks!!! My staff are the best and we want to hold on to them. They did it in a very clever way, just trimmed off a pound off of our hourly rate. Suffice to say most of us are still there.

When we had a Labour government a certain Politician was duped by a charity and lost millions of tax payers money. The tories should get their snout out and try and retrieve that!!!





hx

purplemer
reply to post by uncommitted

 

That's a fairly pathetic response isn't it? Floors need sweeping, toilets need cleaning - who would you have do it? Bring in immigrants because it's obviously beneath you isn't it?

If you want to defend making people work a thirty hour week for £60 or so then so be it. That equates to some £2 an hour. How is that going to help any ones self worth. There are simply not enough jobs out there. Sure the streets need cleaning but pay people enough money to live on.
This is not helping with job creation or helping peoples self esteem. It is a punishment. The same kind of thing they do to criminals when they give them community service...
Nor it is beneath me or a worthless job. The man that cleans the streets saves more lives than a doctor. Treat people like people and they will act like peeps. Treat them like animals and they will behave as such...

Agree with that entirely, all this from George Osbourne a hypocritical man who talks about drugs and guidance in the same breath..wasn't his first agenda in government was it? Maybe he's just remembered something.

If you have a bit of land available to you (a backyard slightly bigger than a patio will do) look into aquaponics; it's a combination of raising fish and using the fish water now filled with nutrients to grow salad greens and other vegetables. If you are allowed to (varies with state/country) you can grow fish you can harvest and also sell the veggies; if it's big enough, it would be a good income for a family. There's a husband-wife team near me in Southern Oregon that is harvesting 1000 head of lettuce greens a week of varied styles and several lbs of fish, as well as honey and chickens/eggs. They have a 1-2 acres but scaled down you can still see the potential; in Oregon, a head of lettuce (esp. organic!) sells for 2-3 dollars, so do the math. This can be adapted to any climate but obviously the more inclement your weather, the more adaptation it takes.

It would probably take several hundred dollars to get started and I know that's a LOT to someone who hasn't worked in a while.

Research 'aquaponics' and I would especially recommend the 'Friendly Aquaponics' people out of Hawaii. If you go to their newsletter page, they give you lots of hints and if you read them all, you'll have the equivalent of a 1.5K class in the systems and how they work. There's a ton of information available on line.

If you don't want to harvest the fish, you can use long-lived and very hardy koi or even cheap goldfish. They grow rapidly and you can also raise worms (vermiculture) and duckweed to feed them to eliminate as much as possible needing to buy commercial fish food.

I'd really recommend this to anyone who might have any bit of outdoor room at all; there's nothing like being a local food producer to at least somewhat recession-proof yourself.

If they want to cut unemployment benefits then they should just do it.

cut unemployment benefits - Yea; come on and join us here in North Carolina... the program is really working good; just kidding "NO ITS NOT" there are still no good jobs to be found anywhere, and if there was a job offered to someone whose unemployment was cut, they wouldn't be able to drive to get to it... no money, no gas.

If you cant see the dangers in this abuse of power then you truly are a sheep minded drone these are your fellow citizens they are using as slaves not animals or criminals they are the same as you.

Open your eyes this is 1984 slapped in your face if you support this then you will be next make no mistake they are just testing the water for a full on slave society.

pirhanna
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

For years I've been saying jobs not free money (w/ medical exceptions).
There's so much that needs to be done. So just have a jobs department instead of a welfare one.
Guarantee everyone a job instead of guarantee free money. But that would make too much sense for all parties involved, so scratch that, let's just keep the same debate going about giving money to the poor vs. taking it all away because there really aren't any other solutions.

THANK YOU^.

It PISSES me off that people insist on thinking that poor people are poor because they are lazy irresponsible, or of low intelligence., but they don't bother to think a little deeper to discover the misinformed, biased, illogical essence of such a thought.

In order to eliminate poverty, the educational, economical, and social constructs of a community must be sturdy and strong. Pertaining to certain community's in this country and other's, it's not.

Giving out free cash and food stipends that will only support individual people and families for a short amount of time is not going to fix the underlying roots of crime and poverty.

Let the ignoramouses who sit there and say that the government is trying it's best to support the lazy poor people by giving them cash and food instead of giving them the ability to make there own cash and buy their own food, continue to sit there like idiots.

reply to post by bigman88


Your post has a special resonance for me.
I agree entirely with the point you make that people need an environment where they can support themselves through their own efforts -- ( I hope I've got that straight).

I'm retired with time on my hands, and I do a bit of work for tfsr.org a charity which collects tools donated in England, and sends them to small collectives in Africa. The initials stand for Tools For Self Reliance.

When we manage to supply a single mother of several children with a sewing machine, it enables her to support her children and elderly relatives.
When we equip a new blacksmith's workshop, or carpentry business, people are set up to take their future into their own hands.
We find that this really works.
But nobody does it in England ....
Maybe in a few years, Africans will come over and show us how to make simple items like woven baskets and carved wooden toys.
Certainly someone needs to show us how to be self-reliant again.

mistersmith.

reply to post by purplemer



You'd be very surprised if you knew of the sacrifices i've made for the people of this country, the amount it has cost me, and the hardships and punishments i've endured as a result.

And the only way in which i'm 'somehow different' to others is in that while i was prepared to get off my arse and do something for the people of this country, those people wouldn't even help themselves. They were the first to moan about what's going on, but when it came to the crunch, those people gave every excuse not to do something.

I've lost too much of my life due to doing things for other people. I've heard people give every reason imaginable not to do something. I've heard every excuse as to why some-one wouldn't help themselves or make good on promises. And what i've realised is that as long as people have a roof over their heads, food in their bellies, and a constant diet of X-Factor and reality TV, they couldn't give a flying one about what's happening to their country and the people in it.

What i'm hearing on here, i've heard hundreds of times before. This isn't about worthy jobs and it isn't about minimum wage. It's about a reluctance in people to get off their backsides. You can talk all you like about the people resisting and rioting and i can tell you that it will never happen. And the reason is simple; Men can't be expected to fight for each other when they won't even pick up litter for each other.

I've done my bit for 'my people'. In fact, i've suffered considerably more than most for 'my people'. I offered people the chance to fight for their rights and they didn't want to know. And those same people stood by and did nothing while i was hung out to dry. So i'm not offering any more free rides. If the people want my taxes to pay for their benefits, they can sure as hell do something in return.

reply to post by Scorchio


Yes and my way if tweaked is a 100% better.

Thing is my way:
Pro
Valuble community work.
Vital career apporiate CV skills.
Challenging work
Self respect
Dignity
A chance to newtork with people in your career area
Chance for people to be in the right place in the right time for a job.
Chance for people between jobs to keep there skills freesh and in date.
Better chance to get a good paid job which will generate more taxs.

Your way:
Usefull work for the community
Very little usefull CV skills unless a high school drop out, New graduate, Holder of a libral arts degree or ex con.
Menial mind numbing work
Humiliation
less of self esteem
Time spent away from job hunting and being in the wrong place
Being forced to mix with unpleasent people or worse criminals on community service
Feeling of being punished.
Risk of skill stagnation


You see my way achives the same thing and more while being far more pleasent and less soul destroying.
Everyone wins my way. You are giving something to the community while vastly increasing job prospects. Job for prospects for good jobs that will provide good tax return.

Scorchio
reply to post by purplemer

 

You'd be very surprised if you knew of the sacrifices i've made for the people of this country, the amount it has cost me, and the hardships and punishments i've endured as a result.

And the only way in which i'm 'somehow different' to others is in that while i was prepared to get off my arse and do something for the people of this country, those people wouldn't even help themselves. They were the first to moan about what's going on, but when it came to the crunch, those people gave every excuse not to do something.

I've lost too much of my life due to doing things for other people. I've heard people give every reason imaginable not to do something. I've heard every excuse as to why some-one wouldn't help themselves or make good on promises. And what i've realised is that as long as people have a roof over their heads, food in their bellies, and a constant diet of X-Factor and reality TV, they couldn't give a flying one about what's happening to their country and the people in it.

What i'm hearing on here, i've heard hundreds of times before. This isn't about worthy jobs and it isn't about minimum wage. It's about a reluctance in people to get off their backsides. You can talk all you like about the people resisting and rioting and i can tell you that it will never happen. And the reason is simple; Men can't be expected to fight for each other when they won't even pick up litter for each other.

I've done my bit for 'my people'. In fact, i've suffered considerably more than most for 'my people'. I offered people the chance to fight for their rights and they didn't want to know. And those same people stood by and did nothing while i was hung out to dry. So i'm not offering any more free rides. If the people want my taxes to pay for their benefits, they can sure as hell do something in return.

edit on 2-10-2013 by Scorchio because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-10-2013 by Scorchio because: (no reason given)

Well I've done my fair share of fighting against the corruption and abuse of the government and have been dissillusioned by the lack of response and support from some people but I sure as hell ain't gonna let that stop me but learn from it and I sure as hell aint gonna give up and join the bigots or start spouting bigoted views. I know what is right and what is wrong. People are so ingrained with defeatism and are tired and scared and it's hard to fight such a big machine, but I believe that machine has weak points and will eventually be destroyed.

Instead of the suggestions of Paying the Minimum wage, they should be paying the bloody going rate for the job they will be asked to do...and that includes Paye, and NI contributions....

How low do they want people to feel. How demoralising turning up at your work knowing your manager is on a fantastic wage and is laughing up his cuff at you, The poor," people being exploited for his/her financial gain...

Why the Hell did i pay 30+ years of Tax and National Insurance...last time i looked i payed that so if i ever became unemployed i would receive dole money without having to dance for it.

So where did my Contributions go??....I want it ALL Back.
I could live comfortably for the rest of my days with the money i've payed in over the years.

So do you all pay into an unemployment system through your paychecks? If you do, I don't think the government has any leg to stand on demanding you work for the money you've already fronted them.

libertytoall
So do you all pay into an unemployment system through your paychecks? If you do, I don't think the government has any leg to stand on demanding you work for the money you've already fronted them.

Yes...That's why we pay Tax and National insurance...25% of your wages...to the Government...not to mention some of the highest taxation on necessities like food, water, fuel....and Fags in the World

£7 for twenty fags..70+% of that is tax...same with Gas/petrol..£5 a Gallon..70% Tax...Like we dont pay enough already.
Rip Off Britain.

I honestly can't understand all the vitriol on here about these proposals. It isn't for unemployed people, it is for long term unemployed people, 3 years or more.

Personally speaking, i would rather do a job i hate such as shelf stacking at Tesco's for minimum wage than trying to live off JSA. You also have more chance of gaining employment (better job) if you are already employed.

Yes, i know there are areas where this scheme isn't really feasible but the simple fact is that for most of this country, it is feasible. Unless you are from one of those areas (like some Welsh Valleys) then you are effectively choosing not to work. That is fine, it is your choice. You must understand though that society doesn't owe you a living, it is up to you. So if you choose not to work, fine, but don't whinge that the rest of us refuse to pay for you.

The whole point of a welfare state is that it is supposed to support the needy in society, not the feckless.

I completely agree with Freeborn though, it is a complete disgrace that a nation actually in the top 5 in the world in terms of economic output has the 28th best standard of living - something is certainly off there.

All those on here that are all for supporting the long term work shy (yes, workshy and not those genuinely struggling to find employment), you must be gutted that polls show generally large scale national support for these proposals.

It won't be long until corporations start paying the government for use of those employees in temporary projects that might impact the public. This law could be a good thing if managed correctly, but I would still make sure their is plenty oversight in place.

reply to post by Flavian

No it isn't just for the Long term unemployed...Have you ever heard of "workfare"...Anyone at any time can be forced to work for there Dole money. you dont have to be 3 years unemployed, you just have to Piss off your advisor or if they have had a bad day you might find yourself stripping copper cable 40 hours a week and still be expected to look for work 30 hours per week.....

How do i know this..Because it happened to my nephew who was unemployed for 6 weeks...

Lets look at the reason why he was Unemployed...He worked a Zero hour contract with Argos, at the start he was getting 40+ hours per week....
worked for them for a year and a half. During that time Argos started bringing in Workfare employees...My Nephews Hours started going down and down until he was only required one day a week.

He had to Pack the Job in as not only was he only getting 8 hours a week on the Minimum wage for a 18 year old £4.90 he just couldn't sit about the house waiting for a phone call from ARGOS telling him he was working tomorrow...

He went to the DWP to explain his situation, they advised him that he would be better off not working so he rapped it...Then after he failed to apply for a Job..There was a Mix up", it was supposed to be a trainee Mechanics job but they sent him an application for a trainee Chef....he never applied for it.
So for his sins his advisor had a shuffle at some Papers, a quick look at the Computer, pushed a couple of Keys....... You will be working in a charity shop on Monday, Just like that...Bang!

And if you think this is a one off you are wrong...it's Happened and still happening to Hundreds of thousands of our Youth up and down the country.

That's the Reality the unemployed people of the UK are going through.

It's Free slave Labour and if you support that then i hope someone comes into your workplace and does you out of a Job...

Soloprotocol

It's Free slave Labour and if you support that then i hope someone comes into your workplace and does you out of a Job...

Mature, balanced response there.

These proposals were brought out aimed at long term unemployed only - it is in black and white so you can argue it whatever way you want, it doesn't change the facts.

Obviously, as a policy it needs tweaking. For example someone made recently unemployed in their 50's is going to find it much harder (unfortunately) to gain employment than a younger person. Equally, school leavers will also find it harder - there should be exceptions.

A good starting point though would actually be Employment Centre workers doing what they always used to do - actually look for a job for you, instead of just directing you to a terminal and shuffling paper, ticking boxes, etc. And yes, this is something i have experience of. As is have said, personally speaking i would rather take whatever crappy job i could take short term so i can have money whilst actually looking for better work. £6.40 per hour (or whatever) is clearly better than JSA every fortnight. Clearly this is something of an alien concept to some on here............

An example, take my area. We have actually weathered things pretty well here with jobs mostly constantly available since the crash in 2008. And yet i still personally know people who haven't worked since losing their jobs. You cannot tell me that is down to a lack of jobs in our area - all data shows the exact opposite. In simple terms, they resented losing their jobs (fair enough, we all do when it happens) but to the point they now think they are owed - then they always moan about having no money. Well, i am sorry sunshine. There are jobs here and if you don't want to work then don't but equally do not expect the taxpayer to support you.

These measures are, in theory, aimed at people like that. Therefore i fully support the proposals. However, if they are implemented and then start to move away from that, it becomes a different story. Interestingly enough, over 70% of those polled also support these proposals so i think we can fully expect them to be implemented.

purplemer
reply to post by uncommitted

 

That's a fairly pathetic response isn't it? Floors need sweeping, toilets need cleaning - who would you have do it? Bring in immigrants because it's obviously beneath you isn't it?

If you want to defend making people work a thirty hour week for £60 or so then so be it. That equates to some £2 an hour. How is that going to help any ones self worth. There are simply not enough jobs out there. Sure the streets need cleaning but pay people enough money to live on.
This is not helping with job creation or helping peoples self esteem. It is a punishment. The same kind of thing they do to criminals when they give them community service...
Nor it is beneath me or a worthless job. The man that cleans the streets saves more lives than a doctor. Treat people like people and they will act like peeps. Treat them like animals and they will behave as such...

Where did I mention any such thing about working for £2 an hour?