Who has a problem feeding the less fortunate??? I want to know.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

What money are you talking about? This is a thread about Food support programs and not the whole basket and breadth of the U.S. social program structure...correct?

Not correct. It's about feeding people that are here due to illegal immigration. It's about taking out additional loans to feed people that should not be here in the first place.

FyreByrd

OccamsRazor04
reply to post by GrantedBail

 

I think they should 100% be fed. As soon as they return to their parents' native country.

Do you believe America should feed every child in the world with our tax dollars? Do you think America can afford that?

If we can **** afford the **** wars all over the world we can **** well feed the hungry!.

If it's a choice - Feed all the people - ***** the wars.

Ok, we can't afford the wars. So I suppose you agree with me that we can't afford to feed the world. Tell you what, do this. Go get a credit card in your child's name. Max it out buying food for people in this country illegally. Pass the debt to your child. Until you do that you and the OP are both hypocrites. Thanks.

OccamsRazor04

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

What money are you talking about? This is a thread about Food support programs and not the whole basket and breadth of the U.S. social program structure...correct?

Not correct. It's about feeding people that are here due to illegal immigration. It's about taking out additional loans to feed people that should not be here in the first place.

It's about feeding human friggin beings.

You'll be hard pressed to find someone more hard nose against illegals and criminal immigrants than I am. Down the line and to the end. However, I'm not a monster either. I don't sleep well thinking about how much hell on Earth others can be made to suffer because they broke our laws.

I don't want them educated as illegals. I don't want them coddled and catered to as illegals. No jobs should be given or tolerated. They absolutely should have NO right to a gun, drivers license or other society benefit as illegals. Criminals are criminals. So Sowwy and bye bye ...back to where they came from.


....However.. I draw the line at two things. Emergency medical care and FOOD. We don't starve people as Americans and we don't let people die of basic medical neglect. If that ever changes, I really don't have anything left to remain here for. The nation I was born into will really be no more.

I find it cold to the point of baffling ....and somewhat horrifying...how food could be a pawn and tool in the war waged upon illegals just like any other factor in the battle, yes, THEY made happen...but.. FOOD?! C'mon.... Humanity demands limits to retribution. It has to.

reply to post by GrantedBail


I don't want to see any human beings go hungry...ever!

One of the most violent acts perpetrated against another human being is starvation, and if you doubt that than you haven't studied the effects of starvation on the human body.

I don't have the answers to this problem, but I do know we need to pull our collective heads out of our collective arses and get this figured out.

A little over a month ago I was going into a shop next door to a subway. A woman in a wheelchair came up to me and asked, not for money, but if I would buy her a sandwich. She explained that it was 3 days until she got her social security check and found herself in a tight spot this month. Part of me wanted to say that i didn't have the time or money. That was until some guy walking by came up and started yelling,

"Did she ask you for money? You better not give that pan handler money, I am so sick of freeloaders, look at her, she has nice clothing on, she clearly isn't homeless., she is just a drain on society. She just needs to find God, if she would turn her heart over to God she wouldn't need to ask strangers for money."

The poor woman was visibly shaken and in tears as she explained that yes she had a place to live , yes she had nice cloths, but she is on a limited income and had a difficult month this month and didn't know what else to do. I knew from experience that that town, there aren't any churches that help out and the food bank is only open 2 days a month. There is the homeless shelter, but you have to stay the to be able to eat.

I might have just brushed her off, but the comments and attitude of the man made me feel compelled to help her, even though I honestly didn't want to take the time to go into a store I had no intention of going into so I could get on with my day.

The big thing was she never asked for cash, just a sandwich to get her by for the next 3 days. she didn't care what kind, she was grateful for what ever I got her.

It was a real eye opener for me. We have become so jaded by stories of people who take advantage that we forgot there are people who truly need help.

OccamsRazor04

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

What money are you talking about? This is a thread about Food support programs and not the whole basket and breadth of the U.S. social program structure...correct?

Not correct. It's about feeding people that are here due to illegal immigration. It's about taking out additional loans to feed people that should not be here in the first place.

And you are the arbitor of who should be here and who should not be here.

Don't twist my words to suit your bigoted agenda.

I have to practise really hard not to hate sometimes - but it is ignorance, plain and simple. We are all connected.

Don't know chapter and verse but "What you do to the least, you do to me."

Wrabbit2000

OccamsRazor04

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

What money are you talking about? This is a thread about Food support programs and not the whole basket and breadth of the U.S. social program structure...correct?

Not correct. It's about feeding people that are here due to illegal immigration. It's about taking out additional loans to feed people that should not be here in the first place.

It's about feeding human friggin beings.

You'll be hard pressed to find someone more hard nose against illegals and criminal immigrants than I am. Down the line and to the end. However, I'm not a monster either. I don't sleep well thinking about how much hell on Earth others can be made to suffer because they broke our laws.

I don't want them educated as illegals. I don't want them coddled and catered to as illegals. No jobs should be given or tolerated. They absolutely should have NO right to a gun, drivers license or other society benefit as illegals. Criminals are criminals. So Sowwy and bye bye ...back to where they came from.


....However.. I draw the line at two things. Emergency medical care and FOOD. We don't starve people as Americans and we don't let people die of basic medical neglect. If that ever changes, I really don't have anything left to remain here for. The nation I was born into will really be no more.

I find it cold to the point of baffling ....and somewhat horrifying...how food could be a pawn and tool in the war waged upon illegals just like any other factor in the battle, yes, THEY made happen...but.. FOOD?! C'mon.... Humanity demands limits to retribution. It has to.

edit on 22-9-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

No one is saying prevent access to food. I am saying I am not going to buy them food so they can live here illegally while they send their money back home. They are welcome to go to the store and purchase food with the money they are making, until they are caught and sent back home. It is not mine, nor anyone elses, responsibility to buy you food so you can send an extra $50 a week home.

It is estimated that worldwide remittances amount to more than $126 billion.

It is estimated that Latin Americans residing in the United States send $30 billion dollars to their native countries.

www.usimmigrationsupport.org...

Seriously, you will never win this argument because the facts are not on your side, at all.

reply to post by calstorm


Was she here illegally? Was she sending $5 to another country and then asking you to spend your $5 on her sub? If not then it has nothing to do with this topic. I applaud what you did, I help out people regularly too even though I am struggling financially myself. I even cook food and bring it in to work and feed the entire staff when I make less than any of them. I will never accept being forced to buy food for people here illegally that are abusing our system. If you can't make it in America go back home.

FyreByrd

OccamsRazor04

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

What money are you talking about? This is a thread about Food support programs and not the whole basket and breadth of the U.S. social program structure...correct?

Not correct. It's about feeding people that are here due to illegal immigration. It's about taking out additional loans to feed people that should not be here in the first place.

And you are the arbitor of who should be here and who should not be here.

Don't twist my words to suit your bigoted agenda.

I have to practise really hard not to hate sometimes - but it is ignorance, plain and simple. We are all connected.

Don't know chapter and verse but "What you do to the least, you do to me."

My reply was not to you so how did I twist your words? They are here illegally, that means the person who IS the arbitor says they should not be here. Is that too difficult for someone as simple as you to understand? as I said, go take out a credit card, max it out, and pass the debt on to your child. Until you do that you are a hypocrite, plain and simple, since that is what you are asking me to do. Don't ask me too do what you wont do yourself, hypocrite.

Mat 25:45
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

Now please tell me where Jesus advocated selling yourself into slavery to buy food for someone else? You won't find it. Now tell me where Jesus advocated government FORCING people to do things? You won't find it.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


It don't want applause, because the truth of the matter is had it not been for that guys rant, I would have walked on by.
It doesn't matter if she was here legally or not, a hungry person is a hungry person. I do not like the fact that the illegals get a free ride to college, or better healthcare than many legal citizens but no one deserves to go hungry.

calstorm
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

It don't want applause, because the truth of the matter is had it not been for that guys rant, I would have walked on by.
It doesn't matter if she was here legally or not, a hungry person is a hungry person. I do not like the fact that the illegals get a free ride to college, or better healthcare than many legal citizens but no one deserves to go hungry.

When you have $10 and you send it back home and demand $10 for food you deserve to go hungry, because it's what you chose.

OccamsRazor04
reply to post by GrantedBail

 

I think they should 100% be fed. As soon as they return to their parents' native country.

Do you believe America should feed every child in the world with our tax dollars? Do you think America can afford that?

If you believe the US to be a christian nation, then the answer is yes.

OccamsRazor04

theMediator
Well some people got life all made up for them, or got lucky enough to make it trough poverty don't respect people that are in need because they feel they didn't have help, when it's always just a matter of perception.

I don't feel that people not working should have access to luxuries but at least they should be clothed, fed, have very basic shelter and have a chance to make a life for themselves, or so to speak.

Are we still so animal that we fear for our own survival badly enough to not want to lend a hand?
Is our society still so under evolved?

Like others pointed out, the same people that want welfare to stop often find ways to justify absurd military spending and corporate tax breaks.

No. The problem is why should we be forced to pay for things for people that are here due to illegal immigration?

Also, social spending accounts for about 45% of all spending, military spending is about 17%. Please get some basic facts straight before you post.

Americans have a duty to ensure American children have food. If you personally wish to pay for food for the rest of the world I think that is great and you should do it. This country should not be forced to feed the world on our taxpayers backs when we can't afford to take care of ourselves.

What an asinine strawman argument. Illegal immigration is NOT the problem. The problem is companies like walmart refusing to pay a living wag. We aren't subsidizing illegal immigration, we're subsiding corporate profits when we have to help feed the poor. And what about the military? Do you know how many millions of dollars in food stamps are spent on military bases?

RealWoman
What an asinine strawman argument. Illegal immigration is NOT the problem. The problem is companies like walmart refusing to pay a living wag. We aren't subsidizing illegal immigration, we're subsiding corporate profits when we have to help feed the poor. And what about the military? Do you know how many millions of dollars in food stamps are spent on military bases?

Illegal immigrants can't legally work at Walmart. The only straw-man here is you. for the record I consider Wal-Mart the devil and would not be happier if they went out of business. It has nothing to do with illegal immigrants sending money home to another country and asking us to pay for their food. I sourced and cited all these facts.

1. America is broke and has no money for anything.
2. Illegal immigrants send money home and then use tax dollars to pay for their cost of living.
3. If you do not have a credit card in your child's name where you are putting your child in debt to buy illegal citizens things such as food then you are a hypocrite for asking me to do exactly that and being mad I don't want to.
4. Saying we should feed illegal citizens and not the rest of the world is hypocritical. Then there is healthcare. If you believe we must provide healthcare then if you draw the line at not providing healthcare to the whole world you are a hypocrite.

RealWoman

OccamsRazor04
reply to post by GrantedBail

 

I think they should 100% be fed. As soon as they return to their parents' native country.

Do you believe America should feed every child in the world with our tax dollars? Do you think America can afford that?

If you believe the US to be a christian nation, then the answer is yes.

Show me where the Christian Bible advocates a nation to FORCE people to give to the needy. The Bible I own calls that a personal choice. As a Christian nation should we force everyone to go to church? We are on a roll here, what else does the Bible say is "good" that everyone in America should be forced to do?

I think OccamsRazor04 makes a pretty compelling argument. There are some separations we should be making. First, between the federal government and private citizens. Charity tells us to support the less fortunate, but charity can't be ordered or compelled by law, then it isn't charity. All the moral good is taken away when it's a required act. The giver doesn't get the benefit of a loving connection to the recipient and self-sacrifice, and certainly doesn't get any "honor" for a good deed. The recipient has to march through a bureaucracy whose sole purpose seems to be to humiliate him so he can eat.

The second division is between what the government is allowed to do and what it wants to do. Even emergency relief to states was only reluctantly accepted in 1927 after a huge flood of the Mississippi. Giving money to people for food only began later than that.

The government is specifically given the task of a supporting a military, but not feeding the people. As was pointed out, there are many "good" things that cost money but there seems to be no logical reason for the government to take more and more until it can give everybody everything.

Lest you see me as heartless, there is a solution. I have worked with a charity, St. Vincent de Paul's. They prefer not to get food, but rather, money. That's because they have reached agreements with some local food producers and stores to get food for about 10% of the shelf price. Their work is done with volunteers, and in one year they have created the largest food shelf in town. All done by donations.

What would the result have been if the government tried to duplicate that? They'd pay more for the food, they'd pay union scale for the workers, and there would be a raft of regulations and requirements to be met.

I firmly believe that if the government cut food aid in half and gave the remainder to places like the Salvation Army and St. Vincent's, everyone would be better fed and more respected. If you have a good to be accomplished, don't give it to the feds. If it has to have government involvement, try the county.

reply to post by charles1952


I completely agree. The fact everyone here is making emotional arguments without even attempting to counter a single point I make, instead relying on ad-hominen attacks speaks volumes about the strength of their position.

It is not government's job to force people to obey Christian morals. It is not government's job to feed people who are here illegally. If a Christian has the capacity to do so and sees someone in need then by all means they should do what their heart speaks to them. Until such time the person is deported.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Seriously, you will never win this argument because the facts are not on your side, at all.

I'll never "win" (you see this as a win/lose game huh??) because you're making the debate point a moving target. Any time your point is addressed, you shift slightly to something else and make some grand NEW point...while blowing off what was addressed. Never...it seems...will you concede even the slightest, smallest issue or point. Not even a tiny bit..regardless of circumstance. If this were a game? I'd call it real crappy sportsmanship.

I think I've said what I had to say on this subject and it's been educational about the value sets..or very clear lack of them..to some fellow members. Thanks for that insight and indeed... I am done playing 'round and 'round the Mulberry bush of logic.

** Funny... I've never seen these topics and debates as a win/loss game. Thats an ...interesting outlook, given the topic matter of this thread as a specific example. I'm thinking the people we're talking about...fail to see the same amusement you do. (sigh) You have a good day...and I'm definitely off this thread before hard feelings develop that never really fade on this. (Not every topic on this site is impersonal and just another story to argue over...to a good # of us.... It's a damn shame so many fail to appreciate the fact...it isn't a GAME.)

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Seriously, you will never win this argument because the facts are not on your side, at all.

I'll never "win" (you see this as a win/lose game huh??) because you're making the debate point a moving target. Any time your point is addressed, you shift slightly to something else and make some grand NEW point...while blowing off what was addressed. Never...it seems...will you concede even the slightest, smallest issue or point. Not even a tiny bit..regardless of circumstance. If this were a game? I'd call it real crappy sportsmanship.

Please show me how I have shifted points. The very first post I made was about America not being able to afford it. I have said the same exact thing every single time. What point have you or anyone else addressed? I am waiting for you to show me where the money will come from. You haven't.

Now you say I won't concede anything even the slightest bit. I already conceded bringing military spending down to $0. Your saying I haven't conceded anything when I gave people a 100% reduction in military spending is so disingenuous it makes further conversation with you on this topic pointless.

I haven't shifted my point one bit, I conceded far more than is even reasonable, and you didn't address where the money will come from. The fact you were able to even type those words tells me you have a serious problem with this issue, and you are clearly unable to be the least bit reasonable or logical.

Is a murder trial a game? Is not the point to argue one position and win the trial? The problem lies not in trying to win an argument, it lies in trying to win at all costs and twisting things to your advantage in order to "win" an argument you know you lost. I have not done this even once in this entire post, but this is exactly what you just did trying to twist my usage of the word "win" when the meaning is clear in the context of my post. I presented facts. Neither yourself nor anyone can dispute the facts I presented. I have been 100% open to hearing out facts that show I am wrong. Everyone has a lot of emotional opinions and ad-hominem attacks so they can "win" their argument without disputing my facts. Whether you or anyone else on this site likes me is completely unimportant. I am not on this site to be liked. If someone chooses to dislike me that is their problem, not mine.

reply to post by syrinx2112


syrinx, I give people everything I have all the time. The government decides to take some from me to give to other people. So what? I give 5 to 10 times more than the government takes from me to others. I laugh at their inability to take more from me, because I have given it all.

I am the insane giver.

To the point where people call me insane.

I give because everyone is my brother and sister. Regardless of how incredibly stupid they may be at any given point in time.

I love everyone; that doesn't mean I respect their ditches full of carcasses.

I will have very little qualms about saying how foolish one might be at the time. If I'm talking with a wise person, I'm likely to be very gentle, as they require nothing more.

If I'm talking with an idiot, I'm going to treat them like an idiot, because that's what they desire.

You can slap me, kick me, shoot me, rape me, pillage me.. and I'll still give to you. Because I want you to be wiser, smarter, faster, stronger, and more loving also. I want you to feel the strength that love really has.

I don't give any species of animal's behind about where the "money" comes from. I don't give a crap about the paper, which the supposedly intelligent, and yet not intelligent at all, seems to think matters... including you.

If you knew what the paper was, you wouldn't care.

You don't know what the paper is.

But it's --really-- simple to figure out. It's a SCAM. The paper is for the books.

THE BOOKS NEVER REFLECT REALITY.

EVER.

EVER.

And you want to cry and whine that somebody is getting whatever they get; you judge what you know -absolutely nothing- about.

Someone accuses me of having not lived in the real world. And I still feel like laughing the next day.

I can tell you for a fact. There are two kinds of honest people in this thread, of which there are few:

Those that know by faith to give food and to not whine about it at all, without judgement (a couple here I witnessed);

Those that hardly require faith to give because love, wisdom, and knowledge have all proven how utterly pointless it is to live otherwise.

Syrinx, I had a dream about you. You told me that I had a 5th grade education. I told you, "I can learn more in 5 seconds than you can in 5 minutes." You were on the other side of a circular table with layers, and it was silver. I tried to crawl over it to get to you, which you kept sliding around the table to get away from me. You were short, brown hair, with a great long sleeved shirt on, and darker jeans. The feelings I got in that dream are like the feelings I get from you.

Unbelievable arrogance, airy, and unbelievably willful to that end, at that.

Maybe you are another lesson. Take my pride will you. Take it, and twice that, which you would like to strip from me; because of your jealousy, and your selfishness, and yet your pride is your foundation, which I have called you out, and you wish to strip from me.

Then take it twice. Enjoy your dark heart that pumps out poison every time your eyes judge that which your mind is too dense to comprehend.

And don't you dare give another thing to another human being. It'll be a witness against you, not a blessing on your part. For you do not understand the real meaning for giving. Until you let go of your simple-minded judging facilities.

But I will share with you how I have been taken care of.

I have given and given without judgment. Without reason. Without cause. I have given greater things in ratio than the greatest of givers. And I have never cared to ask for anything in return. And neither would I boast the stories, and neither do I care to. But I only tell you for this reason: because though everyone around me called me insane, the more I have given, because of my love, and no judgment, the more God has sought to provide me with riches and more riches.

I am never without at all. And God knows that at any moment, if He sent someone that needed all that I had, it would be his without hardly a thought (except to be reminded of the punishment people would exact upon me for doing so well). I more money now than I have ever made, and It has been suggested to me that I will be making about 50-100X what I'm making now, at least. And even then! Will I hesitate? Not at all.

All things belong to God, He controls it all, It all happens as He says anyway. And if you learn to live your life like that, then He reveals BRILLIANT lessons and wisdom to you that you could never have, with your puny minds, ever even thought to imagine. For the high imaginations of our minds is complete and utter crap compared to the awesome experiences God reveals to us with a very, very small turning of the key, and very light, graceful movement, a switch from 360p to 720p, and then to 1080p; you barely notice the different until it's changed in front of you; and that turning of the key reveals a special something you're not able to yet understand, but you know the colors are better, the smells are better, spirits of the people are sitting on top of their flesh, not visible, but felt; These things are minor.

It does not compare.

And you won't know as long as you get mad at slow drivers, people using food stamps, people wearing nikes and trading it in their government checks, homeless, and beggars, and travellers, and who else?! So many more. They are all -you- and you judge them. Their lot in life is, for that particular moment, right where they are; not to be controlled by them, as you think, and yours not to be controlled by you, as you think; for you have freedom here and there, but you are just inside the same very tiny piece of information, and you really are not as free as you think. If you were as large as 10 galaxies, you would look upon all the other trillions of galaxies, and then hundreds of trillions in them, and then the trillions upon trillions of lesser bodies around those, and eventually see upon the earth with your little magnifying glass and see it as a tiny blue green and white orb. And with your greater wisdom understand there is work there being done, but it's all only THERE. Whatever is being done there, it cannot be done to all these other great things all around you.

How limited your movements really are. And you still judge by these... simple... little things.

Your smile is poison, like that of the one who despises you and does not care to learn. Your smile is a precursor to hatred, and to war. It is what hides beneath, the demon that desires to destroy all things that receive love. For one is jealous that others receive it, and yet is too blind to see that he himself had received it all along; but because it wasn't in the manner which he himself prescribed, he will judge how it is done.

There comes a time when the little boy grows up and starts to forgive and starts to even pity those that hurt him, because of what they have had to go through because of their suffering caused. And then not only can you forgive, but start all over, and love everyone, and give everyone a chance, and even possibly look back and see the good lessons learned, which might have contributed to their strength; and then learn to let go, and to suffer now what it is; and be not afraid to suffer punishment from those that think they are well off, but always suffer for those that are not well off.

Way to wealth.